A mere symptom of what's wrong with travel softball

DanMaz

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When you join a TEAM, you honor your commitment to the TEAM. As others pointed out, it's a 1-year deal unless you were promised otherwise. Softball is a TEAM sport. Do what's best for your daughter in the confines of a TEAM sport. It's not OK if "everyone is doing it" (quitting mid-seasons etc.). When I first posted, I knew I didn't want to argue the point. The fact that so many come up with reasons to rationalize is disheartening, yet not surprising.
its a tough one because i see certain circumstances where it is better in my opinion to leave a team over winter or early, early spring IF the circumstances are not good. A Team doesnt want a cancerous player or parent just hanging around for their 1 year commitment to end if they dont want to be there or if they will make it crappy for everyone else with their bad attitude and pouting all season long. I as a coach actually told a parent / player that in my opinion it would be a better fit to find a lower level team where she will get playing time and develop as a player rather than stay on this team and rarely play especially on Sundays. Reality sometimes is the hardest thing to admit what is best for the kid.
 
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its a tough one because i see certain circumstances where it is better in my opinion to leave a team over winter or early, early spring IF the circumstances are not good. A Team doesnt want a cancerous player or parent just hanging around for their 1 year commitment to end if they dont want to be there or if they will make it crappy for everyone else with their bad attitude and pouting all season long. I as a coach actually told a parent / player that in my opinion it would be a better fit to find a lower level team where she will get playing time and develop as a player rather than stay on this team and rarely play especially on Sundays. Reality sometimes is the hardest thing to admit what is best for the kid.
I agree with all of this .... certainly don't want a girl on the team who doesn't want to be there. Bottom line is such situations should never occur, or even be discussed, or be an issue. Players who gripe should be told by parents they are now part of a TEAM and it's not all about the individual wants and needs. They should be taught to play nice with others, show character and honor the 1-year commitment. On the flip side, coaches should not be enticing players and parents to quit their team and join his. Softball is a TEAM sport ... the TEAM is larger than the individual .... and softball is not dying, because the SPORT also is larger than the TEAM .... and so on.
 

Rerun

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not sure why some think softball will be gone in 5 years... our local rec. is bigger than it has been in the last decade.
why do some think it is fading away?

In are area we had 5 local rec programs with around 400 girls, now they only have enough girls for 8 teams between all them program and age group. But rec in are area is declining. But travel ball has filled the void for a very few.
 

Captain_Thunder

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I agree with all of this .... certainly don't want a girl on the team who doesn't want to be there. Bottom line is such situations should never occur, or even be discussed, or be an issue. Players who gripe should be told by parents they are now part of a TEAM and it's not all about the individual wants and needs. They should be taught to play nice with others, show character and honor the 1-year commitment. On the flip side, coaches should not be enticing players and parents to quit their team and join his. Softball is a TEAM sport ... the TEAM is larger than the individual .... and softball is not dying, because the SPORT also is larger than the TEAM .... and so on.
THE PARENTS - there is the biggest problem with your comments! It's usually the parents that start the drama or add to it to a boiling point!

Over the last decade, I can only think of 1 incident where the kid was the problem and the parents were trying. It is usually started by what they hear at home and in most cases it is the parents that are flat out the problem!
 

Passion4theGame

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not sure why some think softball will be gone in 5 years... our local rec. is bigger than it has been in the last decade.
why do some think it is fading away?

A lot of places the Rec Leagues are failing miserably. Some closing down completely. They are not marketing it right in the Elementary schools and creating that buzz.
 

HITTER23

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At least at the one park around here that still has softball, its treated as 2nd class behind the boys programs right down to field scheduling. T-ball even gets better times. Now go to soccer fields and its a different story....


I dont see the interest like before, Maybe Olympic softball will bring back the interest. I know when my DD's were playing, there was tons of interest and they followed the players.
 
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Rerun

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A lot of places the Rec Leagues are failing miserably. Some closing down completely. They are not marketing it right in the Elementary schools and creating that buzz.

i still believe as rec leagues fall so will travel ball.

I don’t like it, but rec leagues and youth leagues are the foundations for future softball players.
 

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I am fairly new to the travel ball world and have no commentary on the original post, but I can comment on what Travel has done to Rec in my area. I think it has not complete destroyed rec ball, but it sure has done it's damage. Especially at the 10u level. Any pitcher decent enough to get the ball over the plate consistently is being grabbed by travel teams. This in turn makes for some slow and painful walk fests at the Rec level. As a parent with a somewhat talented daughter, do I sign her up for Rec with a coach that was asked to coach without experience and slide by with once a week practices, no winter work, and watch games where she never gets to take a grounder or hit a ball because of all the walks. OR, do I find a travel team that will develop her and give her competition that challenges her? I realize I am a hypocrite on this as, at the end of the last rec season, I moved her to travel. I am part of the problem, not the solution I guess.
 

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I am fairly new to the travel ball world and have no commentary on the original post, but I can comment on what Travel has done to Rec in my area. I think it has not complete destroyed rec ball, but it sure has done it's damage. Especially at the 10u level. Any pitcher decent enough to get the ball over the plate consistently is being grabbed by travel teams. This in turn makes for some slow and painful walk fests at the Rec level. As a parent with a somewhat talented daughter, do I sign her up for Rec with a coach that was asked to coach without experience and slide by with once a week practices, no winter work, and watch games where she never gets to take a grounder or hit a ball because of all the walks. OR, do I find a travel team that will develop her and give her competition that challenges her? I realize I am a hypocrite on this as, at the end of the last rec season, I moved her to travel. I am part of the problem, not the solution I guess.

Rec teams are great opportunities for the 3 and 4 pitchers on young travel teams to get innings
 

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I have read this a few times now and trying to figure it out???
According to what you wrote, your DD was the star (or one of the top stars) of the team.
On a Top Team, Playing every inning, batting clean-up, everything sounds great on the field.
So I can only imagine it has to do with personalities of the girls - to decide to leave this situation with only 2 or so months left in the season.
This game is for the girls! We know your DD is happy, but with all good, how does this effect the other 8-12 girls on that team? I feel for them - but I don't know the whole story!
But from what I read, I can't understand the reasoning???

A 12 year old may know what she wants but she sure as hell doesn't know what's best for her. The parents job is to help her make a decision that she can look back on and say "thank you" for, years from now. Letting a child make a decision to abandon her teammates and not finish her commitment has more to do with failed life lessons than softball lessons IMO
 

CARDS

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not sure why some think softball will be gone in 5 years... our local rec. is bigger than it has been in the last decade. why do some think it is fading away?

I would say if you look at several areas one will see a trend. Naturally; some areas have a strong recreational programs that is involved with primary age athletes to keep a sound foundation. These are also generally consistent areas for HS ball as well.

#1 Recreational Leagues/Teams
In the early 2000s our local area (Colerain) supported 5 local recreational parks that would get one to three teams in each age range for girls softball.
About 2008 the large league in SWO folded that had about 30 parks and a couple hundred teams. Most areas in SWO are now in one of two leagues, Greater Miami with around 10 communities and north Cincy with around 20 communities within an hour or so drive of Cincinnati.
If you go to the league's website's not all areas field teams in each age group (some only have HS and 12U). In my direct local area if a family wants to stay age specific depending on coaching they may have to go to another team within Colerain or just take them out of the area or join one of the shrinking catholic teams.
We have 4 large Catholic churches in Colerain that has their own fields/teams. These teams were a big rivalry with the local community rec leagues but not so much anymore since they too are struggling with numbers in softball. Volleyball and Soccer is staying strong though. . http://www.gwacsports.com/


#2Travel Teams
From 2005-2015 there was about 6 A level organizations and more than 20 B level organizations in our area. These organizations fielded teams in several age groups some 10u through 23u. What I mean by A level teams/organizations is the goals of the organization was to play in an ASA,PGF upper tier National and played a qualifying schedule around the Midwest-South East to do so. The B level teams/Organizations would stay in Ohio maybe venture to Columbus Indiana or NKY generally a 2 hour or so range of play. Going through tryouts it looks like its down significantly with A / B organizations.

#3
High School / Middle school
At the HS level outside of your large suburban districts in SW Ohio a lot of schools struggle to field Varsity and JV programs where 10 years ago schools had 2 or more programs easy. Working with the REDS they tried to grow softball by offering leagues at their facility in the fall or trying to get recreational teams to play in other leagues but even with reduced cost (or, in some cases no cost) they still struggled to field the number of teams they were hoping for and it was evident in the CMAC where several schools could not field a team or folded the team after a few games.
The Travel teams for the REDS do well but those kids would be playing for another travel organization if they were not with an RBI team.
Go to the OHSAA website and search programs http://officials.myohsaa.org/Outside/SearchSchool. Many have no middle school programs a lot only have varsity. Mt. Healthy folded softball mid season. WW in the ECC dropped JV and struggled with only 12 ladies for varsity.


#4 Social media/websites
Sites like the SBZ don't seem to have the traffic they had 10 years ago. I remember you could go to the big 4 softball sites and there was daily chatter / discussions in a variety of areas. Now it is mostly teams looking/tryouts that gets hits or moderators starting threads to get hits. When you go to the USSSA or other sanctioning body sites search your area and look at how many teams are registered. Seems to me there is a decline over the past 10 years especially in the 14 and up ages.

#5
Tournaments
There are a lot of tournaments no longer running some due to last year cancelations others because they cannot field enough teams to cover expenses or find umpires. This is not just the local smaller under 10 teams per age group events. Even some large 30 team per age group events are dropping or shrinking to half the numbers they once drew. Some of the bigger events are surviving because they locked in fields, umpires etc. and can absorb teams that may have been playing in B/C events now playing A/B events. I took a quick look at the USSSA B/C team list for the Greenville event June 11th-13th. I was surprised to see a lot of these 14/16U teams that use to be sanctioned A just a few years back and would be at Lasers on this date...


#6
Fall ball/leagues and practice locations
We use to have a half dozen options locally for fall ball weekday evenings or weekends that were always filled. Now its a struggle to find one or two leagues and most of them are blended. 14 and up 12 and under.
Training facilities are also closing up or catering to teams that are part of an organization to keep cash flow. We had 3 nice ones with batting cages and turf that had good rates that has closed up over the past 5 years.

Why the decline?
IMO, Cost and commitment needed for softball is the main reason. Not only for players and parents but for coaches as well. As the opportunities shrink coaches have to look harder for talent, tournaments etc.
(Seems like every organization is looking for coaches same with HS/Middle school). Second is other sporting options or ladies deciding to leave sports all together especially at 15 and up...

The void has also created situations with Pitching and competitive balance that is nowhere near where it was 10 years ago.
Yeah there were perianal losing programs but if you go to the GWOC, GMC, ECC, SWOC websites and look at the game scores it seems like there were more 15+-0 games than I can remember.
This year was so bad that some schools scheduled league DH on week nights with the lesser programs. I cannot ever remember HS varsity programs in our area playing league DH during the week but it happened this year.
 
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Edward Melcher

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Let's be honest with ourselves. Most parents move their kids to other teams before during and after seasons all the time. They are seeking more exposure for their daughters whether it is warranted or not. If you play on a good team that goes to good tournaments that's only a starting point. Now speaking of the older ages if your daughter puts the time emails and the parents help her you can get recruited. We are currently going through this right now. This past weekend she had multiple colleges watch her and will have more this weekend at Lasers. She has been asked multiple times to jump teams before during and end of the last 2 seasons. We have stayed the course with current organization and WE are doing the work needed to get her exposure. Do not rely on any organizations to solely get your daughter to the next level. Your daughter and you need to put the work in. I truly believe jumping teams is only the result (most of the time) a parent issue. Do your homework fir whom your going to play for. If you jump to bump another out expect the same could happen to you.
 
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#5
Tournaments
There are a lot of tournaments no longer running some due to last year cancelations others because they cannot field enough teams to cover expenses or find umpires. This is not just the local smaller under 10 teams per age group events. Even some large 30 team per age group events are dropping or shrinking to half the numbers they once drew. Some of the bigger events are surviving because they locked in fields, umpires etc. and can absorb teams that may have been playing in B/C events now playing A/B events. I took a quick look at the USSSA B/C team list for the Greenville event June 11th-13th. I was surprised to see a lot of these 14/16U teams that use to be sanctioned A just a few years back and would be at Lasers on this date...

As someone who has seen several of those Greenville teams that used to play Lasers a few years back, I can contribute to a couple of points. Some of those teams are now so watered down, they would get ran over at Lasers this year. Also some of Lasers "business practices" have chased a few of these teams off from ever playing that event again. I will not hang them out to dry but when several teams tell you the same story like what happened to teams the year before Berliner went completely to turf and how refunds were handled or how refunds were handled last year due to Covid............it makes you go hmmmm.

And there are also about 30-50 brand new teams popping up every year. Some not bad, some purely a substitute for rec ball disguised as Travel. As a tournament promoter, good for business as most of those teams play in our B/C & C program. As a guy who enjoys watching a well played softball game, not so good all of the time.

Don't confuse this with me being critical of brand new teams as everyone was a beginner at something when they started, just amazed at the number of new organizations and teams that come out of nowhere every year it seems. And trust me the rich keep getting richer as Lasers, Outlaws, Hawks, etc keep gobbling up the teams with potential or good coaches and they get the premier kids at their tryouts for the teams in the org already.

Just one big cycle every year but the top is getting smaller and the middle is also shrinking.
 

CARDS

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As someone who has seen several of those Greenville teams that used to play Lasers a few years back, I can contribute to a couple of points. Some of those teams are now so watered down, they would get ran over at Lasers this year. Also some of Lasers "business practices" have chased a few of these teams off from ever playing that event again. I will not hang them out to dry but when several teams tell you the same story like what happened to teams the year before Berliner went completely to turf and how refunds were handled or how refunds were handled last year due to Covid............it makes you go hmmmm.

And there are also about 30-50 brand new teams popping up every year. Some not bad, some purely a substitute for rec ball disguised as Travel. As a tournament promoter, good for business as most of those teams play in our B/C & C program. As a guy who enjoys watching a well played softball game, not so good all of the time.

Don't confuse this with me being critical of brand new teams as everyone was a beginner at something when they started, just amazed at the number of new organizations and teams that come out of nowhere every year it seems. And trust me the rich keep getting richer as Lasers, Outlaws, Hawks, etc keep gobbling up the teams with potential or good coaches and they get the premier kids at their tryouts for the teams in the org already.

Just one big cycle every year but the top is getting smaller and the middle is also shrinking.

Well said, When I see the Buckeye Heat, Valley Storm playing in a C or recreational tournament I say WOW...C level play is truly rec teams B is more all star rec. I just did not think these mid Ohio organizations would fall that far. But...At least they have teams and are playing!
 

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This was included in a post today by a coach seeking players: "If you're not happy with your current situation or it's not the right fit for you, give us a try." A coach actually advocating that a player quit her team, at this late date, to join his team. I'm not interested in arguing about this with anyone. It is flat-out wrong on so many levels.

I'm not disagreeing. But that team will probably get what they deserve one way or the other.
 

DanMaz

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here is what is wrong......
June 12th / 13th weekend and i honestly have never heard so much talk about who is going where , who is supposedly splitting up, players contacting other teams already about what they are looking for in August, even players committing to other teams now that are different than the team they are on now.... I mean -- June 12th ? When we had our DD's playing and they were 12u - (7 - 8 years ago) I swear I dont remember having this discussion 2nd week in June. WOW - talk about taking the fun out of the sport.
 

snoman76

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here is what is wrong......
June 12th / 13th weekend and i honestly have never heard so much talk about who is going where , who is supposedly splitting up, players contacting other teams already about what they are looking for in August, even players committing to other teams now that are different than the team they are on now.... I mean -- June 12th ? When we had our DD's playing and they were 12u - (7 - 8 years ago) I swear I dont remember having this discussion 2nd week in June. WOW - talk about taking the fun out of the sport.

I'm with you, it's insane what's going on. I'm sure it happened back then too but no where near this magnitude.
 

daboss

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here is what is wrong......
June 12th / 13th weekend and i honestly have never heard so much talk about who is going where , who is supposedly splitting up, players contacting other teams already about what they are looking for in August, even players committing to other teams now that are different than the team they are on now.... I mean -- June 12th ? When we had our DD's playing and they were 12u - (7 - 8 years ago) I swear I dont remember having this discussion 2nd week in June. WOW - talk about taking the fun out of the sport.

Has always been this way in our area. It's their money. They can come and go as they please.

Many join teams in late July and August the year before and things happen in the 10+ months which result in a change of heart. It's one of many reasons I put into our Player/Parent contract the clause for no refunds. Of course there were allowances made in good faith for unforeseen circumstances. To some people, it's not about the money.
 

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In regards to our local rec, I can personally state travel isn't the issue! Here's our local rec story:

In the beginning we had a minimum of 2 team for each age division; however slow and steadily I have witnessed a harsh decline in our rec league. The more I think about it, it's not a decline more of a demise or on life support! Anyhow this prompted me to start investigating, as to why we were losing so many players; especially since our tball program is thriving! Through my investigating and talks with several players and their families I found the main issues wasn't travel or loss of interest it was contributed to the following:

1. There are to many worried about #1. We have coaches and board members building teams around their children and their desire to play particular positions. Locally it doesn't matter how hard other players work or how talented they are, coaches kid and their buddies get priority! These coaches will lose games before moving their child and buddies players; seriously it's all about developing the select players, the rest is just bodies in the field (outfielders mostly)

2. Mutliple Coaches have mutliple kids playing in mutliple age groups, even when they are not needed to fill the roster. For example: coach has 2 daughters that are 2 years apart; first child plays 10u and 12u rec along with travel (dad Coaches all 3 teams) 2nd child plays 8u,10u rec and plays travelball (mom Coaches all 3 teams) often times the 2nd child will also play off weekends with 1st child's older travel team. Now here comes tge twist, mom and dad are related and best buddies with older 16-18u coach so they arrange 1st child to fill in and roster on this team too; as well as making arrangements for 2nd child 14u. Now all these teams have complete rosters but these children are still added, are often times started and playing just as many if not more than girls who only play on age appropriate team. As a 10u, 12u, 14u, 16u, 18u rec player how does it make them feel, sitting the bench (50% or more), while an 8 or 10 year old plays in your spot? It might take the sting off, if these 2 players could outplay the girls on the bench, but not when they are making errors and striking out every at bat.

3. Board members pushed rec and travel players away that would speak against what they were about to do! Anyhow 2 towns went from 4 team down to the point hey they had to many for 1 team and not enough for 2 teams; which allowed them to absorbed players from another town. Upon distribution of the players only the talented, mostly travel, players, from another town were stacked on 1 team; which pushed all the new or rec only players to the 2nd team. Then the stacked team tore through the league undefeated. What makes all other players want to return next year to be slaughtered again?

Before I go any further I would like to personally accept responsibility for my actions. I am not innocent, I have been apart of the problem; however when my child was playing on mutliple teams and starting/playing over girls who only played on 1 team, I pulled my daughter after 2 games! I was not allowing my child's hard work and talent to take away any opportunity from any children whose parents do not have the time or resources to play travel ball or a kid who just wanting to play ball! Although I wasn't a coach, I was part of the problem; to make up for the part I played, I began to look for a solution! This led me to advocated change!

I started discussions and pushed for coaches to only be allowed to coach 1 age division. For players to play in whatever age division they signed up in! Also a player could only be allowed to be pulled up 1 age group from the age division they were initially playing. Also to restrict pulling kids up until the roster fell below 10 players. I further pushed that a player pulled up was not allowed to start or play more innings than a rostered player and they batted at the end of the lineup. Also the opposing coach had to be notified of any player who was pulled up and both books had to document every inning the younger player played and who she subbed; then turned in for review, to ensure the rules were followed! Finally I looked into replacing the board members; however there is no way to replace them. Once you are a part of the hierarchy the only way a member leaves is if they retire, die, or someone hire up sets a vote and calls in favors to push them out; unfortunately when the issues comes from the president down there isn't anything that can be down. Also i was quickly hushed by all those in power, my children were treated horribly for my actions; Finally pushing me just to give up and move my child to travel only!

Eta: I wrote this while driving (yes, I know I'm horrible for it) anyhow please excuse any grammatical errors
 
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