Umpire Question

[Fairman]

Runner at first, infield in, ball hit between 1st and 2nd, neither player touches it, ball hits runner behind the baseline.

What's the ruling?

 

[Dad of Daughters]

As long as ball was past first baseman and second baseman, i.e. they had a chance to field it, and I'm assuming runner advanced safely to second and batter-runner reached first safely, I'm going with single for the batter, runner to second advanced by batter. I'm guessing this might not have been how it played out in your game though....

 

[TnTs_Dad]

I agree, if the ball is past the fielders and no other player is in position to make the play then runner advances to 2nd and batter/runner advances to first - I believe everyone is safe.

I'll add ball should still be live after hitting runner.

 

[BretMan2]

If the ball was past the fielder(s), then the runner is NOT out unless: a) There was another fielder behind the runner who could still make a play, or; b) The runner did something to intentionally contact/touch/kick/etc. the ball.

Live ball, no penalty, play on, get what you get!

 

[Dawgsdad]

Youre not referring to an outfielder are you?

If the ball was past the fielder(s), then the runner is NOT out unless: a) There was another fielder behind the runner who could still make a play, or; b) The runner did something to intentionally contact/touch/kick/etc. the ball.

Live ball, no penalty, play on, get what you get!

 

[Comp]

Youre not referring to an outfielder are you?

That is exactly who he is referring to. The rule makes no distinction on infield or outfield who could make the play. On sharply hit balls to F9, they do many times have a play at 1st base. If the ball is hit hard enough, F9 could very well have a play and that would be umpire judgement.

 

[BretMan2]

Youre not referring to an outfielder are you?

When I typed "past the fielder(s)" I probably should have typed "INfielders" to be more clear.

When I typed "another fielder behind the runner who could make a play" that specifically refers to ANY fielder, infield or outfield.

 

[Dawgsdad]

I thought the new rule stated that if the ball passes by an infielder other than the pitcher and/or is touched by another infielder, the runner is exempt from being called out if hit by a batted ball? Says nothing about an outfielder having a chance to make a play.

 

[BretMan2]

I thought the new rule stated that if the ball passes by an infielder other than the pitcher and/or is touched by another infielder, the runner is exempt from being called out if hit by a batted ball? Says nothing about an outfielder having a chance to make a play.

What "new" rule do you mean? There haven't been any changes to this rule.

Maybe you're mixing a couple of different rules together. The one we're discussing is for an untouched batted ball. If the ball was touched or deflected by a fielder first, then hits the runner, the runner isn't out. No changes there. That's always been the rule.

 

[Dawgsdad]

It was listed under USSSA new rules for 2015. I don't know what the wording was to make it a "new" rule? It is actually listed under changes not new rules.

 

[Comp]

This is the rewording of the USSSA rule.

When a runner is hit with a fair batted ball after it is touched or has passed an infielder, except the pitcher, and the Umpire judges that another infielder had no opportunity to make a play, the runner is not out and the ball remains live.

It does not make the runner exempt, it says it is umpire judgement as to if another fielder had an opportunity to make a play or not.

 

[Comp]

I missed the statement of another infielder in the USSSA rewording. This would make USSSA the only ruleset I am aware of that makes this distinction.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

This is the rewording of the USSSA rule.

When a runner is hit with a fair batted ball after it is touched or has passed an infielder, except the pitcher, and the Umpire judges that another infielder had no opportunity to make a play, the runner is not out and the ball remains live.

It does not make the runner exempt, it says it is umpire judgement as to if another fielder had an opportunity to make a play or not.

It excludes outfielders having an opportunity to make a play.

 

[BretMan2]

Ah, USSSA. I don't work games for that sanction and was unaware they changed this.

It's an odd change, which makes me wonder what their intention might have been. I'm not aware of any others that exclude outfielders from being the "other player with a play".

 

[Fairman]

The PIAA umpires ruled that the runner was out and ball dead.

I had just experienced this same situation in a college game (as a spectator) and they got it right. I knew I was on solid ground but neither HIgh School Ump had ever heard of that ruling and both agreed that the runner was out anytime she was hit by a batted ball....and you wonder why we loose of temper every once in a while.

 

[BretMan2]

The PIAA umpires ruled that the runner was out and ball dead.

I had just experienced this same situation in a college game (as a spectator) and they got it right. I knew I was on solid ground but neither HIgh School Ump had ever heard of that ruling and both agreed that the runner was out anytime she was hit by a batted ball....and you wonder why we loose of temper every once in a while.

Anytime? I wonder if they would rule her out if she was standing on a base?

 

[backstop09]

If the ball was past the fielder(s), then the runner is NOT out unless: a) There was another fielder behind the runner who could still make a play, or; b) The runner did something to intentionally contact/touch/kick/etc. the ball.

Live ball, no penalty, play on, get what you get!

Does the position of the fielders and their realistic chance to make a play have an impact on what is called? If the ball was not past a fielder but the fielder did not have a chance to make a play, is the runner out? Say for instance there is a hard shot down the first base line 2' off the line. First baseman is playing 12' off the line and the right fielder is 25' off the line. If the runner hops over the ball it is clearly going all the way to the fence. If the ball hits the runner as she takes her first step off of first base is she out (she is in front of the first baseman and the right fielder but neither have a chance of making a play)?

 

[BretMan2]

Does the position of the fielders and their realistic chance to make a play have an impact on what is called? If the ball was not past a fielder but the fielder did not have a chance to make a play, is the runner out? Say for instance there is a hard shot down the first base line 2' off the line. First baseman is playing 12' off the line and the right fielder is 25' off the line. If the runner hops over the ball it is clearly going all the way to the fence. If the ball hits the runner as she takes her first step off of first base is she out (she is in front of the first baseman and the right fielder but neither have a chance of making a play)?

If the ball is not yet past an infielder when it hits a runner, it doesn't matter if there was a chance to make a play or not. The runner is out.

The assumption is to give the benefit of the doubt to the defense. Would the fielder have made a play? Maybe, maybe not. Since the runner likely altered the ball's course before it even got to the infielders, we can't say for certain.

On some plays it might be fairly obvious no out could have been made, but on others it might be hard to tell. The rule doesn't require the umpire to make that difficult distinction.

 

[Fairman]

Bretman, you are probably right.

If she was standing on a base they might get that call right....but I wouldn't bet on it. Every game: always an adventure.