High school scoring trends

WWolff

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It is funny to look at the papers the day after watching a high school game and see what is turned in to newspapers. In the last 10 years I have watched a lot of high school games, and seen everything from coaches, players, grandparents, parents, and even little sisters keeping the books.

Maybe I'm to critical ? But these are all errors in my book that I see scored as hits.

Ball dropped (Infield or Outfield)
Ball hit right at player through her legs
Bad through past player covering base before runner gets there
Ball hit right at infielder and player bobbles, drops etc and runner barely beats out.


So does this happen because of so many unqualified people keeping score or because high school coaches want to pad there teams stats for post season awards ? I would guess both. This happens anywhere from weaker high school teams to what people would consider some of the best teams in the state.


And one last one not viewed as a error but not a hit.
Fielders choice and they give batter a hit
 
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Unfortunately all of these things are prevalent and I think are caused by both things you mentioned, lack of qualified state keepers and stat padding. As a coach in other sports, I'd say baseball/softball is probably the easiest sport to manipulate numbers on. And post season awards are often so mechanical in our sport, highest numbers get the votes. Makes it very frustrating for those of us that make every effort to do it the right way.
 

okiedad1961

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Definitely coachs protecting there image of past sucesses. Win's reported ,losses no where to be found.
 

travelinmom

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I was at DD's game her senior year, she didn't get to pitch because the coach said that the starter had a "no hitter going".
Nope, not really the case but that's how it was in the team book, it was a shut out but definitely not a no hitter. Watched a ball get hit to left and drop about 15 feet in front of the fielder, runner reached first. That's a hit, right?
 

chixdad

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As a pitchers dad on a not so good team this year we have saw outfielders camped under ball and the ball drops in front of them. First base pulling the foot early and someone nonchalantly catching a ball and it rolling out of the mitt, to me these are all errors. I don't even want to see the ERA of the pitchers on our team, much less have a coach ask about it.
 

gobug

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As a pitchers dad on a not so good team this year we have saw outfielders camped under ball and the ball drops in front of them. First base pulling the foot early and someone nonchalantly catching a ball and it rolling out of the mitt, to me these are all errors. I don't even want to see the ERA of the pitchers on our team, much less have a coach ask about it.

Amen! Sounds like the same scorekeeper is keeping both team's books! My favorite is two OFs going for an easy blooper pop up. Of course neither calls the ball and it drops between them, a foot apart. Happened at least three times. All were scored as hits. Then there was the grounder hit directly to SS. Goes through her legs (Not hard hit), somehow winds up being thrown between LF and CF, who are literally five feet away from each other then over thrown to 2B, runner winds up going home. Yep a hit.

Nothing we can do except sit there and smile.
 

coachjwb

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I think it's mostly just poor scorekeeping. I am sure sometimes there's a bias involved either by the scorekeeper or the coach, but I think there are a ton of people out there, including many in this forum who just don't know the rules and guidelines of scorekeeping. Part of the reason is that it's not always logical ... e.g., a ball that should have been caught but falls between outfielders and is never touched is actually a hit. There is also some judgment involved on plays that some people see different ways ... e.g., if there's an overthrow on a hit ball, it becomes relevant if the batter would have beaten the throw anyhow.
 

okiedad1961

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I'm hope that it will be done as accurate as possible,got an indication that it might be,dd was a double away from hitting for the cycle in a game and coach told me the triple was scored a double because it went through the outfielders legs ,oh guess she was a triple short.Go bugs right "Nothing we can do except sit there and smile." that includes most of it, hs ball that is.
 

gobug

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I think it's mostly just poor scorekeeping. I am sure sometimes there's a bias involved either by the scorekeeper or the coach, but I think there are a ton of people out there, including many in this forum who just don't know the rules and guidelines of scorekeeping. Part of the reason is that it's not always logical ... e.g., a ball that should have been caught but falls between outfielders and is never touched is actually a hit. There is also some judgment involved on plays that some people see different ways ... e.g., if there's an overthrow on a hit ball, it becomes relevant if the batter would have beaten the throw anyhow.

I understand what you are saying Jeff but the fly rule can go either way. The rule is, when a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play it is scored as a hit. The situations I'm referring to do not apply to that in any way. These are not cases of misjudging the ball, these are honestly cases of two players getting there in plenty of time and not making the play.
 
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brownsfan

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Our trainer does ours most of the time. Non-parent and has been doing it since my oldest dd was a freshman in HS (now a freshman at Ashland U). When he's not present, it goes to both a parent and a player and the player is told what to place if there's a questionable play. I think they compare the books later and discuss why they scored differently (if they are different).
 

TnTs_Dad

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I understand what you are saying Jeff but the fly rule can go either way. The rule is, when a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play it is scored as a hit. The situations I'm referring to do not apply to that in any way. These are not cases of misjudging the ball, these are honestly cases of two players getting there in plenty of time and not making the play.

From the ATEC scoring guide:
"if the ball is not touched because of confusion as to whom should
have fielded it, or because a fly ball was misjudged and the fielder
could not recover in time to gain good position, credit a hit."

This is the one I've always followed in these cases and ruled as a hit. Maybe I'm wrong for that?
 

coachjwb

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TnT ... that's the way I always looked at it as well ... and my DD was a pitcher!

Some of the scoring rules are "favorable" to hitters and some to pitchers, but the rules are the rules and I always kind of rationalized they even out over time. Here's one ... 2 outs, no one on base ... pitcher (or anyone else for that matter) makes an error throwing the ball away on the next batter. The next 4 batters all reach on clean hits or walks and 3 runs score ... no earned runs for the pitcher.

We've all seen balls drop a hundred times that should have been caught, and most of the times they are either mental or judgment errors and it stinks for the pitchers, but most errors have to be physical ones.
 

TnTs_Dad

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Agree oiler_pride.

Back to the OP's point though, I think it goes both ways. I've seen score keepers who want to never charge an error and it's always a hit as well as others who charge an error for everything. I'm far from the expert on scoring but I always do my best to follow the guidelines and look it up if I'm not sure. If it's a questionable call that could go either way I usually rule in favor of the batter (for both teams). If it's a big enough deal I'll make a note and discuss with the coach post game.

Clueless parents make the job of any scorekeeper hard. I had about bit my tongue off last year hearing a JV mom go on and on about her daughters base hit that turned into a home run... she wasn't going to hear any different.
 

gobug

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I stand corrected then. :) I was using the NCAA rule book and they state it differently.

In the long run it really doesn't matter with this team. There are so many blatant errors, through the legs, bouncing out of gloves, overthrows etc. that are scored as hits, a few dropping pop ups aren't going to matter. LOL
 
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TnTs_Dad

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I stand corrected then. :)

In the long run it really doesn't matter with this team. There are so many blatant errors, through the legs, bouncing out of gloves, overthrows etc. that are scored as hits, a few dropping pop ups aren't going to matter. LOL

been there, done that :)
 

brownsfan

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Some of the scoring rules are "favorable" to hitters and some to pitchers, but the rules are the rules and I always kind of rationalized they even out over time. Here's one ... 2 outs, no one on base ... pitcher (or anyone else for that matter) makes an error throwing the ball away on the next batter. The next 4 batters all reach on clean hits or walks and 3 runs score ... no earned runs for the pitcher.

That's why I think now you're starting to see more columns concerning runs. One for earned runs, and the other is allowed runs. Pitched 25 innings, and ERA of 1.13, but the allowed runs is 14. That can be taking two ways....defense isn't doing their job, or the pitcher isn't stepping up to help her defense. But of course I could be very wrong which isn't unusual :D
 

Irish196

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I was just commenting on this to my husband yesterday. We went to watch our local team play yesterday and the head coach was coaching 3rd and keeping the book at the same time. I can't imagine what the book looks like. It didn't look like he could keep up with either job.

I was also wondering about the official rules regarding an asst. coach because both games we watched there were different parents coaching first base - and neither of them are listed as asst. coaches on the school's team site. They didn't know softball much either (e.g. full count, the guy yells from first- "don't swing unless it's perfect- it's gotta be perfect", ((and no, the ump didn't have an impossibly small strike zone and the girl was capable of swinging the bat, etc. etc.))

Granted the team is new (they didn't have a team last year) but I expected more.
 
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Run26

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I'm always amazed how well my DDs hit in HS ball. Somehow the HS staff has their stats about 100 bps higher than I keep. I say you touch it - you better make the play or it's an E. Now there are instances where the SS gets deep in the hole and you just beat it out. I use common sense on hard plays. My kids know by now to come see me if they want the real #'s. It does us no good to brag to our TB coach that "Jenny" is hitting .500 then come out @ TB practice and her swing looks like Daffy Ducks beak after a weekend bender.
The oldest kiddo is playing ball in college and if they aren't playing they are on book duty. Who knows the game better than a lady playing at the highest level? Great idea, IMO.
 

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