Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching - Location VS Speed

cobb_of_fury

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
711
Reaction score
1
Points
16
Location
down Pixburgh
I know we have gone round and round on this but it's been awhile so lets ask;

{THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL AND DOES NOT REFLECT A REAL PLAYER OR TEAM}


There are two schools of thought on pitching;
A: PITCH HARD AND FAST WALKS BE DANGED K's are King
B: Controled and efficient, walks are a sin and strike-outs are fascist (but we'll take 'em when we get 'em)


What is better at 14U and above:
A: pitcher with speed and questionable control (55+ mph 6+ BB, 7k, 80+ Pitches a game)
- OR-
B: pitcher that can hit spots with some movement and pitches to contact for easy infield or pop up outs (generaly)
(50~54 MPH 0.5 BB, 3k, 45 Pitches per game)


I know for sure the Speedballer will get more looks by most travel ball coaches but what about College coaches
Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

TnTs_Dad

New Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
63
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Location
Here
I'd go with B all day as long as she's not exceptionally slow. Change speeds and plane and hit spots, definitely my preference.
 

Jae13

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
261
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Is it asking too much to have both A & B on my team! Lol
 

lewam3

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
498
Reaction score
64
Points
28
I know we have gone round and round on this but it's been awhile so lets ask;

{THIS IS ALL HYPOTHETICAL AND DOES NOT REFLECT A REAL PLAYER OR TEAM}


There are two schools of thought on pitching;
A: PITCH HARD AND FAST WALKS BE DANGED K's are King
B: Controled and efficient, walks are a sin and strike-outs are fascist (but we'll take 'em when we get 'em)


What is better at 14U and above:
A: pitcher with speed and questionable control (55+ mph 6+ BB, 7k, 80+ Pitches a game)
- OR-
B: pitcher that can hit spots with some movement and pitches to contact for easy infield or pop up outs (generaly)
(50~54 MPH 0.5 BB, 3k, 45 Pitches per game)


I know for sure the Speedballer will get more looks by most travel ball coaches but what about College coaches
Thoughts?

Cobb, if your speedster is walking 6, she better be striking out 12, not 7!
 

fastjay

New Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Points
0
i'm learning more and more that, assuming speed is decent and the pitcher can hit most of her spots, movement becomes king at 14U. my dd has decent speed, very good control, but doesn't induce a lot of swings and misses. i'm on the page it's because she really only throws a fastball and change with a below-average curve that we haven't worked on much. the focus to date has been mechanics, mechanics, mechanics...time to start thinking more movement.
 

wow

Active Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Messages
836
Reaction score
53
Points
28
Location
Right over here!
I have this conversation with other coaches and parents all the time. I agree the answer is always C all of the above. A pitcher has to have speed, hit spots and have movement! If the question has to have a answer and you must choose, the answer is it depends on the batter. Just like there are different batters there are different pitchers. I have seen the slowest pitchers frustrate the best batters, you see this in HS all the time. Then other times the weaker batters cant hit a 60MPH fastball. Overall there is no right or wrong it just depends on the scenario, that is why movement is so important. If you can hit spots and you have pitches that move on two plains ( up and down/down and away) its is more effective, long term, then speed alone.

Another point is we can measure speed, we cant accurately measure location or spots. There is always some subjectivity to ball/strike. A radar gun is as close to absolute, assuming its calibrated right, to measuring a pitch.. Measuring location, rotations, and amount of movement can only be done over time and with a lot of data entry.

The other question is why throw three pitches at the speed of light when you can throw one where the batter pops up, or scrubs in the infield for the easy out... I say its all about finesse...
 
Last edited:

fastjay

New Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Points
0
high velocity makes up for a lot of missed spots...
 

chixdad

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
244
Reaction score
6
Points
18
Location
Olmsted township
My DD does not throw as fast as a few of her friends and opponents do, but I will gladly take her hitting most of her spots. Some of the High School pitchers beat the catcher to death with wildness and the wild pitches along with Walks are a killer.If they can throw in the sixties and control it you can't ask for much more.
 

JoeA1010

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
348
Reaction score
133
Points
43
Speed is always better than slow and good location is always better than no location, the question is how much of a trade-off is worth it. Generally speaking, I'll take the speed, so long as the K's are at least about 2.5/1 over walks. When I think about the best handful of pitchers in my league, they all throw hard.
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
617
Reaction score
19
Points
18
Location
Nashport
Website
WWW.OHIOBULLDAWGSELITE.COM
high velocity makes up for a lot of missed spots...

So do tight spins.

Just like hitting every girl is different. If you don't hit spots you had better throw hard. But if you can do a little bit of mixing speeds, hitting locations, and be able to throw hard well then you have it all. Ive had some very good pitchers throw 54-56 that were very effective and ive had a couple throw 60-62 that would get rocked at times. The girls that throw harder sometimes don't have the experience "pitching" they throw because that has gotten them by for a long time. But as they get older the bats catch up. Nobody sets the pitching machine at 50 MPH.
 
Last edited:

daboss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
816
Reaction score
603
Points
93
Location
Clark County Ohio (Southwest District)
Most D1 schools seldom call a fastball unless it tails (moves). Other college levels call for a fastball depending on count simply to keep the strike to ball ratio in check and curve the free pass by way of walks. This seems to be more the normal for college play. From a competitive stand point, how can you ask for much more?

At D1 and D2 level most rosters are very capable of striking any fastball hard. D3 and jr college level play it still has its place but mainly for the reasons I've shared. By the age of 20, many real pitchers have developed speed that is in access of 60mph. The more eye-opening number is the spin (revolutions per second) which many exceed 23rev's with many reaching 27rev's or greater to go with a mid to high 50mph of velocity.


At 14u, find yourself a well-instructed pitcher with good form throwing a 55-59mph fastball with a snappy 21-25rev's at a low to mid 50mph range and she'll ride you into the final 4 almost every weekend. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Throw in a change up in the mid 40's with control and the finals are yours.
 

CARDS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
1,311
Reaction score
349
Points
83
Location
COLERAIN
Website
www.wearecolerain.com
high velocity makes up for a lot of missed spots...

14 and under a hard thrower can have success once they hit 16 they better have the ability to change speeds and spot the ball vs. top competition. The top level hitters practice as hard as the top level pitchers in most cases more...My dd practiced a ton including stepping in the 100mph baseball cage swinging a 34"26oz bat. During her HS and Travel career there was only one pitcher we faced during that time that had success with the blow and go and she is struggling at the college level.
I had three others on our 16 and 18U travel teams that could also tee up hard throwers.

I was watching South Carolina vs. Texas A&M a few weeks back and was surprised to see the A&M pitcher only throwing in the mid to upper 50s. She had good movement but the 2 catchers seemed to be reaching out for the ball, not dropping and blocking or framing the pitches well so, SC ended up getting a lot of free bases and stayed in the game.

I also remember a young lady hitting 70 MPH at some events we were in 2011-12. Her name was Bradlee Holman and she was the hardest throwing pitcher I had seen personally. She was consistently hitting upper 60s and low 70s.
After a great HS and travel ball career she is having a rough go at it at the D1 college level. I do not know if it is due to an injury or the ball just not moving but after watching some video she is still bringing the heat however her era is over 8 the last time I looked. Google Bradlee winthorp university video and see some of the film the ball jumps out of her hand and it is about as much velocity that can be produced.
 
Last edited:

tjsmize3

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
397
Reaction score
78
Points
28
Speed is always better than slow and good location is always better than no location, the question is how much of a trade-off is worth it. Generally speaking, I'll take the speed, so long as the K's are at least about 2.5/1 over walks. When I think about the best handful of pitchers in my league, they all throw hard.

Agree with Joe. Speed reduces the amount of time to make a decision and adjust at the plate. So if you have to pick one I would start with the girl who can hit her spots with above average speed. Movement can be tricky though because you can have a lot of movement, but if it's not late movement, or if the movement is all east-west and not north-south, it is less effective and tends to get hit harder... ESPECIALLY if the pitcher is on the slower side. Give me a pitcher who has above average speed and can hit her spots paired with an off-speed pitch that comes in a good 10 mph slower and we are going to win some games. Add a strong 3rd pitch with late break and good north-south movement and we will win A LOT!
 
Last edited:

gobug

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2014
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Points
6
DD was told by a top 25 ranked D1 college coach that this is what he looks for in order:

1-Speed. Won’t even look at you twice if you throw under 58 and will only look at you at that speed if your movement/spin is exceptional. If not, 62+.
2-Mechanics
3-Movement
4-Control
5-Size. He said if you have size and at least decent mechanics he can teach you the rest.
 

Similar threads

Top