Fastpitch Organization Heads Taking a Salary

[InSider]

There is no question that the person that runs a travel ball organization puts a lot of time and work into running things. Often, they also use their own financial resources to do so. If it is a large organization, it can amount to an insane amount of hours handling administrative issues, parent/player issues, and things of that nature.

This begs the question, "Should an organization head draw a salary from the organization?"

Some organizations are set up using a "board" to handle the operations of the outfit. Others have President, Vice-President, Secretary, Treasurer. Others have one person running the show with other employees/volunteers to handle some of the more mundane tasks.

So what is fair compensation? Should there be compensation? Should someone make running a fastpitch organization their full time job?

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

Where's the popcorn?

 

[FastBat]

There is no question that the person that runs a travel ball organization puts a lot of time and work into running things. Often, they also use their own financial resources to do so. If it is a large organization, it can amount to an insane amount of hours handling administrative issues, parent/player issues, and things of that nature.

So, we agree, there is a ton of work that goes into running an org. If you would ask me if I would want to run an org, my answer would be, "No, thank you!" But, since I don't want to and I want my dd to play for a good org, I have no problem paying for the services. It happens in other sports, why not ours?

 

[daboss]

Organization heads taking money have been doing so for years. In the south and west coast, there are people actually doing it as a primary source of income. It is there daily job! Personally, those organizations have a clientele that I have never socialized with but if they can make it fly, good for them. 501-3c organizations (I think I got it right) may not be allowed to have employees????? Need a lawyer to check this out.

Bottom line; the word "volunteer" seems to mean something different to others in today's world. In my day volunteer meant do it for nothing even if it is at your expense. I come from a farming community. In the past when a farmer was hit with some bad luck or a tragedy such as an injury or loss of family member, the neighbors would organize and go in to help with the timely needs on the farm like harvest or planting. we did it even when sacrificing field time for our own crop and used our own people and burning our own fuel. we never asked for a dime but were rewarded with a warm feeling for our efforts. To others in today's world, that warm feeling is anger that they aren't profiting from their efforts and instead believe they should be compensated. Sorry, I don't agree.

Recently, I attended a local fastpitch game of a Rec program and sat near the concession stand. While watching I overheard the 2 parents working in the stand discussing how they believe they should be getting paid to stay there. The program asks for volunteers to run the stand and parents are only asked to work if their own child is not playing. That way, they never miss their own. Both parents were upset because this made the "second" time they had to work this summer. Both knew of parents that hadn't taken a turn so why shouldn't they get paid. They "heard" another Rec program paid their workers so why can't they get paid? They went on to compare how much they earn at work at their regular job so they could make demands on how much they should be compensated for their time. I know the program and its officers and none get paid to run things. It is strictly volunteer-----------the old fashion definition.

People, come to grips will you?!?! You're doing this for the kids. I applaud the volunteers that step out and fill the void that some parents are unable to provide. It's the way of life as we know it that has been around since the beginning. People with compassion, willing to go the extra mile. Your payment should be knowing you made a difference. Even if all you do is take a turn in a concession stand a few hours all summer. Doesn't it make you feel good inside? Are you that callaus in today's world? If you're sick of being the only volunteer than approach the ones not pitching in. Don't change the definition of the word "volunteer."

 

[WalkOffHR]

I absolutely think they should be paid.

 

[InSider]

Those of you that feel they should be paid, do you think they should make a living at it?

 

[TheSoftballZone]

Those of you that feel they should be paid, do you think they should make a living at it?

I see nothing wrong with Coaches, Organization Heads or Tournament directors making a living off the game of Softball.


If they do a good job, nothing wrong with them making a living. And if don't do a good job they won't be making a living off the game very long.

 

[coachjwb]

I think it would be a rare exception for someone to make a living off of softball ... a little extra income, sure ... maybe even enough for a few people to be able to justify all the time from a financial perspective ... but generally speaking, there's not going to be enough money out to there to truly make a living on it ...

 

[Coach Tony]

Wow...This is a subject I could write on for hours. I will try to keep my points as on topic and brief as possible.

In the last 5-7 years, elite youth sports have transitioned from a Win At All Costs philosophy to a Get Recruited At All Costs philosophy. Inherent in this shift is that elite youth sports such as high level travel softball have become a business transaction in which parent (buyer) pays money to a travel organization (service provider) to help their child earn a scholarship (future income). Organizations theoretically help their players earn scholarships through player development, exposure and supposed college coach/organization head recruiting negotiations.

I have seen first-hand the power that an organization's name and "branding" can have in a player's ability to get exposure at showcases and tournaments. Go to a tournament like Scenic City, and it is very clear that certain organizations get placed in prime locations that typically get the most college coaches. Other less known organizations have their teams playing on fringe fields far away from the main complex. These placements in Super pools and on prime time fields do not happen by accident and in fact there are some back room dealings well above my pay grade ($0 per hour) that help make things happen for organizations at these big tournaments. For this and many other reasons, then, there IS a true VALUE to being part of the right fastpitch organization when you are living in this Get Recruited world.

With this in mind, I have a very hard time reconciling the notion that a fastpitch organization head should LOSE money to help a player MAKE money. Remember: if you aren't making money, you are losing money as it is almost impossible to truly get to a financial position where you are breaking even.

Bear in mind, that probably no one in the entire country (yes, including the California teams) makes a living off of their travel organization. Those very few (fraction of a percent) who are able to make a living off of travel youth softball do it through a combination of personal instructing, running tournaments, running camps, doing recruiting videos and licensing from spirit wear and perhaps a cut off of players fees. None...ZERO...of the people I have known across the country who make money in this sport have made it from solely being the head of an organization.

A plug for my fellow coaches: Also have sympathy to the fact that almost all travel coaches LOSE significant money helping your daughters on their journey. At any given tournament, you can look around and find people who are making more money than the coaches: Concession stand people, park administrators, umpires, the headband/bow seller, and more.

Back on track... In this current climate, I absolutely think that travel organization heads should be able to make money from their position. I also DEFINITELY think coaches should make money as well. After all, we have no problem paying hitting instructors, pitching instructors, etc. A hitting instructor gives you an hour of his or her time. A travel coach gives you his entire weekend (maybe four or five days) with infinitely more stress, travel, responsibility and personal accountability.

This is all the product of the current travel softball world we have created. My advice to anyone looking to make money off of softball: Do anything BUT be a travel softball coach or travel organization head. You will almost assuredly lose money in the long run not to mention damage relationships in your personal life and run your car into the ground.

 

[FastBat]

Those of you that feel they should be paid, do you think they should make a living at it?

Yep! Why not? If they are able to, sure. Check out some of these other sports. Look into local soccer orgs and especially competitive cheer. The more competive the youth sport is, the more likely the head is paid. They don't stop at paying the head either, they probably also pay coaches, desk people and other helpers.

Rec sports, aren't paid, so that's an option for people who don't think heads should be paid.

 

[coachjwb]

Great post, Tony!

 

[Stupid Jim]

Great post Tony, I brought up that point about team placements at showcase tournaments and had many members tell me that it was my daughters fault or that it didn't matter that they were out in the boonies and other teams played all of there games in the center of the action.

 

[daboss]

I was going to add quotes from responses made since I wrote my original on the thread but decided to explain myself a little, possibly defend my stance, and hope my words don't become redundant to the responses of others.

Yes, people do make a living from being heads of organizations. As pointed out, they do offer more than simply sitting at the desk paying bills and scheduling teams into tournaments. The ones I am aware of do provide hitting lessons, pitching lessons, fielding lessons, and a host of other services or oversee a staff of volunteers that are doing this on their behalf. They wear many hats. It all is made possible by the fees being paid by families to him so their daughter can be a part of their organization. The fees being paid are mind-boggling. The 1 character I am thinking of as I write lives in Atlanta area suburb in a house that cost more than my farm. when I met him years ago he had taken an early retirement from a corporate job to free him up to pursue this dream. It was/is his business at the age of 50+ years old. I will not share the organization name nor will I share his for obvious reasons but was at the banquet for the NFCA when he recieved his plaque for career wins over 900 at the time I met him and learned of all this stuff. How much he made from retirement or money he had put away is not relevant.

My point is he wore many hats but it all was made possible because he started the organization and ran it as a business venture. He never portrayed it to be anything else. As he explained it to me, it became a reality after being encouraged by neighbors that had daughters and they wanted this to happen. The club has been around for years at the elite level in multiple age groups. He personally coached their 18u program. This is something that has transpired on the west coast for years. Just not the normal in my neighborhood and I admit it.

Do I believe he or other clubs doing this is wrong? NO! I mentioned if you can pull it off go for it. They never misrepresented themselves. Everyone knows up front what is going on. This is not a situation where it started out as a volunteer type venture, then when they realize how much work is involved they began throwing their hands up saying "I'm not doing anymore till somebody pays me." If you go into a venture that is being percieved as volunteers doing this for the kids, it should remain that way. If the work load is too much they need to establish a committee or board to perform all the duties, then do it. If you believe you need to work yourself into having a stroke by micromanaging every detail, then don't blame anyone but yourself. If you can't find enough competent help to run an organization, welcome to the world as we know it. lol. It's always a struggle. The answer is to keep looking or change your expectations. Perhaps a larger organization simply cannot be maintained. Back off and do only what you can do.

In my area in central Ohio the groundbreaking of most clubs was and is solely about volunteers willing to give up their time to establish and run these programs for kids at a higher level of competition. That's how the travel ball world came about. If you start as a volunteer you should finish as a volunteer. If you are unable to continue, pass the torch. The minute you start belly-aching that you should be getting paid for all this you have crossed a line. You are no longer a volunteer. On that same note; you open the door for others to judge you. I write this stuff from my heart. I coach because I want to help the kids. I give pitching lessons for free. I do it because I want to give something back and make a positive difference in this screwed up world. A little piece a sanity. I've never kept a dime for my efforts. I have been trained by the very best in the country to offer the best skills and techniques in the sport. I have been trained by the best at my personal expense including my travels around the country and numerous hotel stays. I did this to uphold my claim to provide the most accurate and update information I can share with you and others. I am not a rich man. I'm just a volunteer. I live what I preach and have for over 20 years. You still can choose to disagree with me and that's okay. I'm not perfect. Still don't want a dime from anyone. Use it to take your family out to dinner or a movie and hug those kids. Tell them this is from the little fat guy Daboss. He just wants you to have fun and be happy.

Most

 

[jmason]

there are guys on this message board that do make their living on fast-pitch. It's happening, so there is a market right here in ohio. the business suggests the players have better exposure though it.

 

[WalkOffHR]

Some great responses. It's still a free market economy. Whether you are a gifted softball coach/instructor or someone who writes music for a living or paints if what you have to offer has value and people will pay for it then why shouldn't you make a living at it?

I'd rather a coach make a living helping kids stay off drugs than a drug dealer making a living off my taxes.

 

[GeneralsDad]

There should be transparency. I feel every parent has a right to know how much the coaches are making, the head of the organization, etc. Witout the facts there is no way to determine ROI. If you are afraid to put all the facts on the table you are certainly over paid.

I will add the DD has played for a well known org. They are in the Super Pools and on the right fields. Her travel coach played a huge role in her recruiting process, as well as many others. We were able to make it to the "D1 promised land" without any of them receiving a salary. At the same time, our fees were some of the lowest in the state.

Regardless of what some big name orgs tell you, paid positions are still an exception not the norm. If it is in your budget and is what your family decides, fantastic. Just beware that when it becomes a money game, it also becomes a numbers game. Gotta have butts on the bench to pay the bills.

 

[daboss]

There should be transparency. I feel every parent has a right to know how much the coaches are making, the head of the organization, etc. Witout the facts there is no way to determine ROI. If you are afraid to put all the facts on the table you are certainly over paid.

I will add the DD has played for a well known org. They are in the Super Pools and on the right fields. Her travel coach played a huge role in her recruiting process, as well as many others. We were able to make it to the "D1 promised land" without any of them receiving a salary. At the same time, our fees were some of the lowest in the state.

Regardless of what some big name orgs tell you, paid positions are still an exception not the norm. If it is in your budget and is what your family decides, fantastic. Just beware that when it becomes a money game, it also becomes a numbers game. Gotta have butts on the bench to pay the bills.

WalkOffHR also touched on a good point as well as the quote above by GeneralsDad. The word not being used is "Opportunist." Actually I thought about this after posting but these 2 have picked up on it very well. Opportunity can come from almost anywhere and that's exactly what has happened when talking about this topic. Somebody saw a chance to make some money from the game and jumped on it. I don't believe any of us has stated we're condemning people for doing it. If you were a volunteer, saw an opportunity, and decided to pursue that rather than remain a volunteer it most certainly is your choice.

As mentioned, don't hide or be ashamed of it. Be honest and forthright. It'll be in your best interest in the long run but honesty normally is just that.

 

[poden-smoden]

I have read all of the post on this subject and have a long winded opinion as well. However, I will keep it simple with one question that all can answer!

What is your current salary?

 

[daboss]

22 years coaching from Rec to travel ball, 11 years of pitching instruction------this winter begins my 12th, coaching seminars, player clinics, NFCC classes, NFCA member, Master Coach Gold Star (need 1 more course to achieve my second gold star), 1 national term with the NFCA on the Player Recruitment Committee, ran 3 times unsuccessfully for the NFCA Rules and Ethics Committee, printed in Fastpitch Delivery, stayed and studied under Ernie Parker in Chattanooga, Tenn., certified by the IFPA as a pitching instructor.

Never have ever taken a dime----------------$0 income.

 

[poden-smoden]

22 years coaching from Rec to travel ball, 11 years of pitching instruction------this winter begins my 12th, coaching seminars, player clinics, NFCC classes, NFCA member, Master Coach Gold Star (need 1 more course to achieve my second gold star), 1 national term with the NFCA on the Player Recruitment Committee, ran 3 times unsuccessfully for the NFCA Rules and Ethics Committee, printed in Fastpitch Delivery, stayed and studied under Ernie Parker in Chattanooga, Tenn., certified by the IFPA as a pitching instructor.

Never have ever taken a dime----------------$0 income.

Well isn't that special!!

What I meant was what is your income for your current occupation that you due accept?

If an individual chooses to make a living off of this sport or even just an extra income, it is none of my damn business or yours for that matter. If the individual spends all day, everyday calling coaches, scheduling tournaments, camps, etc. and their lives revolve around it then why not an income?

You get what you pay for generally. If team fees are within your budget and you are happy with the product that you are paying for, what does it matter if a percentage goes to the head of org?

Next time your purchase a bat, ask the owner of the facility how much he makes off of it.....maybe you can claim it should be free so that it is for the girls!

Or ask Ernie next time your studying if he earns an income off of softball. Maybe claim that he shouldn't and demand a free DVD or something!


So once again.....how much money do you make?


Sincerely,


10 years coaching from a lawn chair, no particular seminars, member of HOG ( Harleys owners group), no current courses in anything, never ran for any committee, printed in newspaper once for being arrested, OH wait! I was the fastest white boy in my county in the early 90's.....that’s about it!!!