KENT STATE Coach Linder resigns

Gungadin

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A quick Google search found this article title from the local Kent area newspaper:'Philosophical differences with today's athletic world' leads to Linder's resignation as KSU softball coach

By Allen Moff | Staff Writer Published:August 31, 2015 4:00AM

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17smom

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'Philosophical differences with today's athletic world' leads to Linder's resignation as KSU softball coach

By Allen Moff | Staff WriterPublished: August 31, 2015 4:00AM


The landscape of collegiate athletics has changed considerably since Karen Linder's softball coaching career began over three decades ago.

Linder has obviously adapted well to the evolution, earning 801 victories while directing programs at Kent State and Ashland over the past 30 years. But the adaptation process has taken its toll on the veteran mentor.

Linder resigned as coach of the Golden Flashes on Friday, and cited "philosophical differences with today's athletic world" as the main reason she made the decision when reached by phone on Sunday.

"It's time for me to move in another direction, because the world of athletics has changed," said Linder. "The kids are different, the recruiting process is different, the university and the administration is different. I feel like my job has become centered around trying to make everyone happy, and it's becoming increasingly difficult to do that without compromising my values and principles.

"There are so many people that we have to please, and I don't think that's what athletics is supposed to be about. It's made coaching increasingly more difficult. So I feel that it's time for me to move on."

Linder leaves KSU after earning Mid-American Conference Coach of the Year honors for the fourth time in her career last spring, when her Flashes won 41 games and captured their fourth MAC regular season title under her tutelage. She is the second-winningest coach in MAC softball history with 546 wins at Kent State.

Her Flashes have also shined in the classroom, recording a 3.478 team GPA during the 2015 spring semester and boasting one the top 30 team GPAs in the nation in each of the past six years.

Obviously, stepping down after such a long and successful ride was not an easy decision.

"It is a hard decision for me to leave, because I have enjoyed my time here," said Linder. "I've had great relationships with so many people on my staff, in the softball world, people within the university, the players and their families. All of those people have enriched my life. It has been an honor to be able to coach here and be successful over such an extended period of time. I credit the assistant coaches that have worked with me, the players that we've had and the support staff at Kent State."

Linder's coaching roots run deep. Her father, the late Dick Fishbaugh, coached baseball at Otterbein for 33 seasons. She matched his career victory total of 617 in 2010, and together they are the only father and daughter in NCAA history to each win 600 games as head coaches.

Perhaps since she's been in and around coaching for so long, some of the changes that have come about in modern day athletics are more difficult for Linder to accept.

"When I first started coaching kids wanted to play, and they looked at you as a leader. If you told kids to do something, they would do it because they trusted that it was going to help them get better," said Linder. "Now when you tell a kid to do something, some of them need three reasons why they need to do it this way. It's a world of entitlement, and I've struggled with that."

Changes in recruiting methods have also been a major source of frustration for Linder.

"Right now everybody's in a hurry to get the next superstar, and we're offering kids scholarships when they're eighth and ninth graders, which I strongly disagree with," said Linder. "But you're put in a situation where if you don't get involved in the recruiting process with that kid when she's a freshman, you're not going to get her. I don't believe in that, and it's extremely frustrating to me."

Now that she's no longer coaching softball, Linder hopes to eventually find ways to change the direction of collegiate athletics.

"I want to be an advocate for softball and have a positive influence on maybe changing what the current environment is, to bring some of the principles, values and philosophies back that have allowed me to be successful," she said. "I enjoy educating people about the recruiting process. I enjoy doing camps. I'm hoping to run some camps and be involved in summer tournaments, and use that to be able to help better educate kids, parents and coaches about recruiting. Hopefully I can have an impact on slowing the process down.

"I would also consider working for a coach's association, conference or even the NCAA if any opportunities would open up."

Linder has been flattered by the outpouring of support she's received since announcing her resignation. Her Facebook page is currently filled with supportive posts from former players, coaches and other loyal followers.

"Our program always strived for academic and athletic excellence. That's what I stressed to every player I recruited," she said. "I feel very proud that I accomplished that, and I'm grateful to the players and coaches that helped me achieve that success. I'm proud of our alumni and the people that they've become, how they've gone out into the world and made positive contributions in their professions and their families in whatever it is that they're doing. I feel that's my biggest accomplishment, how I've helped so many people grow and be able to affect other people in other professions because of the experiences they had at Kent State."
 

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Wow ... thanks so much for posting that. I really believe what she has to say about this world of entitlement and especially about the early recruiting, and it is exciting to think she may actually be able to help facilitate change now that she's stepped away from coaching. Kudos to Karen, and congrats on a great coaching career!
 

cdevaney

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Good luck coach in all you do. You will be missed.
 

WalkOffHR

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Yes,and I agree with her 100%. Problem is no one wants to look in the mirror.
 
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okiedad1961

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m hoping Coach Linder makes or helps things change in the recruiting process as she spoke of. Think there needs to be more time for these girls to mature and develop as players before there taken by the best sell job or offer from there university when you really don't have the complete player.
 

Pacerdad57

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Class article. Nice to see some still care about and live by their principles.
 

Strohbro

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She is dead on about the recruiting today. Kids verbal at such a young age (8th/9th grade) and it's a joke. Anything can happen to that player and/or the program the kid verballed to. It is definitely getting out of hand.
 

FastBat

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Does anyone know what percentage of 8th grade verbals, are actually followed through, until the first year of college?
 

Lenski65

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The first thing coach Linder mentioned in the article was not the recruiting process, it was the change in the athlete:

"When I first started coaching kids wanted to play, and they looked at you as a leader. If you told kids to do something, they would do it because they trusted that it was going to help them get better," said Linder. "Now when you tell a kid to do something, some of them need three reasons why they need to do it this way. It's a world of entitlement, and I've struggled with that."

This is a serious problem, and in many schools the AD lets the kids (and the kid's parents) get away with it. The coach tells the player to perform a task a certain way, the player resists by arguing and/or not perform the task the way the coach wants, an argument arises, and then the coach disciplines the player. The player then calls the parents claiming the coach was mean to them, and the parents end up calling the AD. The AD then has a meeting telling the coach they cannot discipline the players anymore. The AD has just given power to the players and stripped the coach down to nothing.

It's the inmates running the asylum, and that is not good for any program. I applaud her for not dealing with it any more and for going out on her terms. When a coach of her caliber and proven history of success goes out like she did for the reasons she did, it was in essence a very bold statement to the university.
 

JoeA1010

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Lenski is right. This type of thing is happening way too often. I'm not saying coaches are always right, but unless an AD is 100% convinced a coach is in the wrong, any AD with integrity will back the coach. ADs are now all getting paid in the six figures even at many D2 and D3 schools, so they are mainly interested in protecting their jobs. Tossing a softball coach under the bus is pretty much never going to cost an AD his job, but parents going over the AD to complain to the President or a number two at a school puts pressure on an AD.

I have worked under seven ADs in my coaching career, some good and some horrible, but only one would not have the back of coaches. Fortunately, he was an interim and was pretty much incompetent, so the school didn't even consider him for the permanent position. But I saw the damage he created in his short time by not backing his coaches and it gravely hurt programs and led to two coaches being let go.

Linder is right about kids today. When you combine that with spineless administrators who wouldn't last a month in the real world, coaching is extraordinarily difficult today.
 

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Having time to think about this. I've heard that our kids are a reflection of us adults. I can't how many times I've seen on both the old forum and the new forum that we've all said the HS coach stinks and is we as parents undermine them. Go ahead little Suzi, listen to your coach, but when their not looking do it the way you were taught, thus matching up to what Lenski just stated. I'll admit, I even did it. I was extremely worries that dd's swing would be changed. The coach didn't touch her and used her as the example (per her words). I did mention the postion she played and where she lined up. After about a week or so into the season, DD and I agreed to at least try it his way. She ended up 1st team conference and 2nd team county as a freshman. I can still taste whatever was on my foot after inserting it into my mouth.

But it also doesn't stop there. How many travel coaches also complain about the HS coaches? Either way, there's a fine line and I firmly believed we all crossed it. It starts off with us parents. Most teams are eliminated in the playoffs the first week anyway and nearly have a full month to unwork what was taught. I think as parents once eliminated, start to work on dd's skillset back to trael ball...immediately. DD's can't talk to their travel coaches, but us as parents can. If we start doing that NOW, maybe, just maybe well respected coaches will not retire because of Coach Linder's statement about kids and entitlement.
 

TnTs_Dad

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Love her second statement as well...

"Right now everybody's in a hurry to get the next superstar, and we're offering kids scholarships when they're eighth and ninth graders, which I strongly disagree with," said Linder. "But you're put in a situation where if you don't get involved in the recruiting process with that kid when she's a freshman, you're not going to get her. I don't believe in that, and it's extremely frustrating to me."

I usually don't like most of the recruiting rules. Some of them seem down right silly. But I strongly believe this kind of thing needs to stop. IMO kids getting recruited at this age is beyond ridiculous, but this is what it has come to for the top athletes. Anytime I hear of a kid committed as even a sophomore I question if it's the right move for the player. Deciding on a school at that age just seems like a premature decision.

What's everyone else's thoughts?
 

WWolff

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Having time to think about this. I've heard that our kids are a reflection of us adults. I can't how many times I've seen on both the old forum and the new forum that we've all said the HS coach stinks and is we as parents undermine them. Go ahead little Suzi, listen to your coach, but when their not looking do it the way you were taught, thus matching up to what Lenski just stated. I'll admit, I even did it. I was extremely worries that dd's swing would be changed. The coach didn't touch her and used her as the example (per her words). I did mention the postion she played and where she lined up. After about a week or so into the season, DD and I agreed to at least try it his way. She ended up 1st team conference and 2nd team county as a freshman. I can still taste whatever was on my foot after inserting it into my mouth.

But it also doesn't stop there. How many travel coaches also complain about the HS coaches? Either way, there's a fine line and I firmly believed we all crossed it. It starts off with us parents. Most teams are eliminated in the playoffs the first week anyway and nearly have a full month to unwork what was taught. I think as parents once eliminated, start to work on dd's skillset back to trael ball...immediately. DD's can't talk to their travel coaches, but us as parents can. If we start doing that NOW, maybe, just maybe well respected coaches will not retire because of Coach Linder's statement about kids and entitlement.

Great post John! Didn't think you had it in you :)
 

okiedad1961

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Great post John! Didn't think you had it in you :)
Know this maybe a touchy subject for you but.Do you take into consideration some of values of parents,maturity of the players, beyond the skill set when getting kids on Outlaws teams to make your help on finding interest and helping your kids in the recruiting process?Maybe too much for a public forum and more suitable in different thread,will completely understand.
 
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coachjwb

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TnT ... agree 100%. I don't blame the coaches who feel forced to do it to keep up, or the families for jumping at the opportunity to know that a fair share of their DD's college cost will be paid for ... but the system is broken. Hoping that Karen can be part of the solution ...
 

WWolff

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TnT ... agree 100%. I don't blame the coaches who feel forced to do it to keep up, or the families for jumping at the opportunity to know that a fair share of their DD's college cost will be paid for ... but the system is broken. Hoping that Karen can be part of the solution ...

Jeff the problem is not all college coaches think it is broken, but most of them I talk to do believe they need to change some things. Some feel it is between them and the family to make that decision not the NCAA or NFCA. Do I agree NO just stating what some coaches think, but I do not personally tell a family to accept or decline a offer that is up to them because I do not know anyones personal situation.



Okie I will answer you in a bit
 
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coachjwb

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Warren ... I get what you're saying and I believe you that some coaches don't think it's broken ... most likely the ones who have been using it to their advantage. The forced honoring of the verbals would help, but then it's not really a verbal any more ... it's a written contract. I am just sitting back and trying to apply some common sense to the situation, and it just makes zero sense to me that colleges can and do recruit anyone younger than say 15, maybe even 16. That is just too young to put kids through that, and to have them make such a big decision in their lives. And from the coaches standpoint, there no doubt is risk that the kid is going to change ... their skills or interest may erode, they may get lazy, they may do all kinds of things that would make them a less than desirable recruit in 4-5 years.

The system IS broken.

P.S. But I reiterate what I said earlier that I don't blame the coaches or the kids/families for pursuing what the system allows.
 
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WWolff

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Warren ... I get what you're saying and I believe you that some coaches don't think it's broken ... most likely the ones who have been using it to their advantage. The forced honoring of the verbals would help, but then it's not really a verbal any more ... it's a written contract. I am just sitting back and trying to apply some common sense to the situation, and it just makes zero sense to me that colleges can and do recruit anyone younger than say 15, maybe even 16. That is just too young to put kids through that, and to have them make such a big decision in their lives. And from the coaches standpoint, there no doubt is risk that the kid is going to change ... their skills or interest may erode, they may get lazy, they may do all kinds of things that would make them a less than desirable recruit in 4-5 years.

The system IS broken.

P.S. But I reiterate what I said earlier that I don't blame the coaches or the kids/families for pursuing what the system allows.



Yes Jeff I mixed two different subjects together sorry. I have deleted the one to avoid confusing the two subjects. That what happens when you rush lol (I'm trying to clean it up a bit)

I'm guessing your opinion is that the process is broke
 
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DanMaz

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off the wall question... it seems that there are more verbal's now because of the crazy High School rules and strict rules for college coaches contacting players at early ages, right? and this is how they get around those rules to try and lock up players? just a thought but either way even if the system is broke it wont stop because when everyone else is doing it, you have no choice but to do it too and the family and the colleges have too much to lose if they stop simply to make a point about it being broken or because of their own personal values.
 

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