it used to be fun

[sorcerer mickey]

Looking back at my experience as a parent of a high level player, it all stopped being fun after 11u. At 12u our team was lured in by a high priced so called elite organization. Thats when the bills got higher and the level of play got lower. Instead of playing as a team (family ) it became 12 individuals playing for their personal dream of earning a college scholarship. This organization did nothing for us except cash our checks and convince these girls and their parents that they would have a future if they just stayed with this organization. The truth was that most of the girls on this team won't even play high school varsity. My advice is to avoid these high price elite organizations whose only goal is to take your money and have you chase a delusional dream.

 

[Bink44]

I somewhat agree Mick! Too many times over the years I have seen individuals enter the sport we love, for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only, and that is to bleed innocent Family's for as much $$$ as they can and to feed there self absorbed egos!! Good luck in finding a better fit in the future.

 

[CARDS]

Its sad but what you bring up is a reality of today's youth sports (not just Fastpitch). Parents loose perspective about FUN...Thus why so many ladies seem to be leaving softball and sport in general by 16.

Are there bad teams, yes... But it is parents that allow themselves to be drawn into situations that creates family issues and ladies to leave the game (most just dont know it).
A lot of the time its because the parents are too consumed with the college scholarship. My feeling is play for FUN, play at the level you can afford and still have fun.
If the player has to work too hard to compete they may be over their head / just not ready or, would be ok to play at the lower levels.

The truth is many ladies stop playing by their senior year of High School and, those that make it to college do not always fulfill their scholarship obligation. A lot end up leaving / changing schools or, staying in college but electing to stop playing softball/sport.
Talent trumps all, I remember a post a few years back where the poster said which organization puts more girls in college and D1. I still believe none...Its the ladies and their talent or lack there of that gets them into the various levels of play post secondary and as long as the lady is in the right fit JC to D1 that is where the success is regardless of any monies gained for playing.

Parents that keep it fun and in perspective and look for coaches that know how to keep it fun while developing skills are the ladies that generally continue to play and when done playing continue to help coach or instruct either after HS or College.

 

[wow]

Absolutely spot on. Your post is not even 12 hours old. I suspect your post to get double digit "thumbs up" by end of day. 10U was a blast, even 12U was ton of fun. 14U was an absolute pressure cooker. And not due to the competition. When kids are in the dugout and arguing over which college is there to see who, its time to pull the ripcord.

Maybe its about time more of this type of stuff was talked about so kids and family's coming up can know what to avoid.

 

[CoachTEA]

I think it begins with honesty: there are SPARQ numbers out there that help a player align to what ever level of college play (D1, D2, D3, and NAIA). Parents and players need to honestly assess where they fit into the "grand scheme". For example, if "Little Suzie" wants to pitch at the Elite D1 level, she needs to bring it greater than 60 mph with movement and hit her spots; anything less drops her into other divisions. Another example, my daughter is starting her freshman year at an NAIA school. She is your "speedy" slapper outfielder type with a Home to First time of 2.85 seconds. We knew she wasn't the sub 2.7 required at D1 schools and we adjusted out search to what fit her capabilities (she also wanted a small private school for her education, so this worked for us). I agree many girls start "hanging up the cleats" at 16u and 18u because it doesn't fit their future plans (driving, jobs, boyfriends, etc.). I had a wonderful player quit me a 16u a couple of years ago because she planned on attending OSU majoring in a medical field and she wasn't going to play softball at that level. It broke my heart because she is a great kid from a great family, but she made a wise and mature decision that I truly expect. Stats say only 8% of all high school players will ever step unto a college softball field and only half of them will receive any athletic money to do so. Those kids with full athletic rides are less than 1%. Parents and players need to understand these facts and adjust accordingly. And I agree with many of the points made in the replies: "IT HAS TO BE FUN!!!". If it isn't fun (and affordable), go find somewhere that is a better fit. Granted we didn't the "Travel-Select" thing just for the scholarships (which we received); we did for fun and to build memories and relationships that will last long after our playing days are over.

 

[lewam3]

Looking back at my experience as a parent of a high level player, it all stopped being fun after 11u. At 12u our team was lured in by a high priced so called elite organization. Thats when the bills got higher and the level of play got lower. Instead of playing as a team (family ) it became 12 individuals playing for their personal dream of earning a college scholarship. This organization did nothing for us except cash our checks and convince these girls and their parents that they would have a future if they just stayed with this organization. The truth was that most of the girls on this team won't even play high school varsity. My advice is to avoid these high price elite organizations whose only goal is to take your money and have you chase a delusional dream.

Mickey, if it stopped being fun at 12u, you are in for a long haul of disappointing summers, namely 6 of them. Remember every kid on the "elite" team that has so far eluded you and your DD wants that college opportunity as much as your DD and they might very well feel the same way about her as you do of them. Also remember a lot happens between 12u and high school, namely puberty, and some of these kids that you feel are lacking in talent may be studs at 16 once they develop. Believe me, I witnessed it over and over as my daughter got older. In fact jumping from 16u to 18u can be just as sobering, and even after the "offer" has come in.
So my advice is to relax, settle down, find her a fun team with good parents, and her talent will speak for itself. She will have plenty of summers to prove it.

 

[JoeA1010]

Good posts. Having coached at about all levels, I know the girls who got the most out of their travel ball time are the ones whose parents weren't consumed with a college scholarship. It wasn't completely off the radar, but it wasn't the one and only reason the girl played.

As far as finding one's college level, I agree that it needs to be done and it's hard. First, a girl or family needs to try to be honest with themselves and ideally find someone who has the knowledge to be honest with them. Over time, the process will take care of this when college coaches show or don't show interest. I think most college coaches would agree that we're always looking for a level higher than well-meaning travel coaches and others try to send our way. I am a D2 coach. When I hear a travel coach or whoever else tell me, "I think she's a D2 level player," what I'm usually thinking is, "She can barely make a D2 roster and is at best a decent D3 player." It's not that we distrust the coaches, it's that experience teaches us what we usually end up seeing when we go watch that player.

People get thrown off by the fact that most colleges add walk-ons or small scholarship players (books, perhaps). People then say if that girl can play at that school, well then this girl is better than that. Often, a girl simply wants a certain school or is willing to take a shot at a level above where she is otherwise being recruited.

 

[CoachTEA]

Good posts. Having coached at about all levels, I know the girls who got the most out of their travel ball time are the ones whose parents weren't consumed with a college scholarship. It wasn't completely off the radar, but it wasn't the one and only reason the girl played.

As far as finding one's college level, I agree that it needs to be done and it's hard. First, a girl or family needs to try to be honest with themselves and ideally find someone who has the knowledge to be honest with them. Over time, the process will take care of this when college coaches show or don't show interest. I think most college coaches would agree that we're always looking for a level higher than well-meaning travel coaches and others try to send our way. I am a D2 coach. When I hear a travel coach or whoever else tell me, "I think she's a D2 level player," what I'm usually thinking is, "She can barely make a D2 roster and is at best a decent D3 player." It's not that we distrust the coaches, it's that experience teaches us what we usually end up seeing when we go watch that player.

People get thrown off by the fact that most colleges add walk-ons or small scholarship players (books, perhaps). People then say if that girl can play at that school, well then this girl is better than that. Often, a girl simply wants a certain school or is willing to take a shot at a level above where she is otherwise being recruited.

Wise words people from Coach Joe!

 

[CARDS]

Looking back at my experience as a parent of a high level player, it all stopped being fun after 11u. At 12u our team was lured in by a high priced so called elite organization. Thats when the bills got higher and the level of play got lower. Instead of playing as a team (family ) it became 12 individuals playing for their personal dream of earning a college scholarship. This organization did nothing for us except cash our checks and convince these girls and their parents that they would have a future if they just stayed with this organization. The truth was that most of the girls on this team won't even play high school varsity. My advice is to avoid these high price elite organizations whose only goal is to take your money and have you chase a delusional dream.

A couple questions for you Mickey,

Did your 11U coach jump organizations or was it a parent lead jump?

You say the 12U team/organization was billed "elite" but the level of play got weaker...This is where the coach and parents need to step back and understand what are our goals, where do we want to go, and how much of our disposable income are we willing to invest and what is our ROI on this investment?

When you look at schedules there are really only a handful of teams at all age ranges that plays a "high level" or national schedule (and some are not the big names).
Most teams tagged "elite"play the same schedule as the lesser known organizations and stay within 2 hours of home or less a national that "may be" 4 hours away.

 

[sorcerer mickey]

I never once considered this an investment, we played because we loved the game. As her level got higher we obviously wanted to play on high level teams against high level teams. This is a sport for fun, a high priced hobby, and I am willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars so she can have Fun! Not looking for payback, just making memories she can look back on her whole life.

 

[sorcerer mickey]

Our team along with another 5 teams moved to another organization in pursuit of college fame. Our choice was to either go with the new organization or stay with the old organization, which was down a level.

 

[CARDS]

Our team along with another 5 teams moved to another organization in pursuit of college fame. Our choice was to either go with the new organization or stay with the old organization, which was down a level.

Reflecting back, were your previous teams really down a level?
If, 1. everyone was having fun, 2. you played those elite teams and 3. your team was asked to join one of the elite organizations?

IMO, at 8u-13U Its about development. The pressure of college at these ages is just a distraction. At the younger ages if you have good coaching (and it sounds like you did if they were asked to join a bigger more established organization) the team / organization may have been better off developing what they had as long as the parents were on board. (Thus why I asked in my other post was this coach or parent lead to move).

At 14 and above the ladies talent and goals tends to take them in different directions. If college ball is a goal there are many pathways, levels of play etc. But the school has to be the main reason for going, not because of sports opportunities.
If a lady chooses to just focus on studies but wants to play competitive ball that too can happen. I had two on my team that could have chosen to play college ball at a DI/DII level but decided to just focus on school and having fun playing all summer with ladies and families they had spent several years playing with as they chose to serve their country in the USN and USAF.

To follow up on my investment statement. My DD was a multi sport college athlete. At the younger ages she played Football, Motocross, Softball, then Switched to Bowling, Golf and Softball around 14 and just rode dirt bikes when time allowed.

Softball was the most expensive sport of them all.
Starting at 15U we played some of the best events/teams in the country traveling to Atlanta, Chicago, S.C. and Tennessee a lot. Playing 4 and 5 day events & college camps/clinics takes a big commitment. Throw in $200 bats, $100+ gloves and while she did not have private hitting/catching instruction she did see a personal trainer that was about 3k a year.
As they get older the cost goes up "if" you want to continue to play in high level events. So, you have to make sure the player and family understand the cost / commitment and make sure the expenses align with the goals.
For us it was just to play the best and have fun, for other families it was to have fun and try to get scholarship money or to help secure playing time at a college level.

Most parents get disappointed when the investment/expenses do match the goals, Sometimes this is due to talent, Sometimes coaching, and Sometimes unrealistic parent expectations...

 

[tjsmize3]

10U was a blast, even 12U was ton of fun. 14U was an absolute pressure cooker. And not due to the competition. When kids are in the dugout and arguing over which college is there to see who, its time to pull the ripcord. Maybe its about time more of this type of stuff was talked about so kids and family's coming up can know what to avoid.

I agree with you wow that discussion is always good to help parents make appropriate choices for their daughters and for their families. 14u - 16u softball can be very time consuming and very expensive! I have personally only been through travel ball once previously, so on my second time through I am definitely still learning, but your comment about "pulling the ripcord" caught my eye. I would say in my experience with this game if the worst thing that 14u girls argue about in the dugout is which college coach is there to see which player you are pretty well off. I would argue it is time to pull the ripcord when the girls are arguing about when the last time a college coach even showed up at one of their games! That's a whole lot more common. Also, in reference to 14u being a "pressure cooker" it certainly can be with the reality that college coaches are starting to assess your DD and may or may not like what they see. A general rule of thumb most families should know is that it is almost a certainty that their DD's heart is going to broken by at least 1 college program and that there is a usually an unexpected interest by at least 1 other school that tends to off-set the pain. I think most 14-18 year old girls do exceptionally well with the pressure of the recruiting years. I would say in almost every case where you hear stories about the the "pressure" or dissension on teams due to recruiting it is the parents and not the players with most of the issues. Teams with parents who can focus on the controllables and show patience as the process plays itself out usually will fare the best. If you and your daughter have done your part at this age level things will generally end as they should and I think the majority find peace in that. There are always those who will stir the pot because a college program passed on their daughter or doesn't operate on their time line but this is just usually the loud minority. I think most parents handle the process well so I truly do feel for those who no longer think softball is fun or have lost their way... especially if it is due to the college recruiting process.

 

[coachtomv]

Perspective....its a game that is meant to be fun! I tell every player, when it stops being fun, stop playing. Don't care about anything else, if you lose the love of the game and competing, then move on to something else. Your not going to make a living playing, your not going to get your money back via education, your just not. You sacrifice time, money, energy, effort, your body, to pursue something you love. Don't do it for anyone else but your self, your love of the game and your teammates!

If you want to see pure love of the game, come watch our WWAST Wounded Warrior charity team play sometime. When these teams play(10u-18u), all we care about is the game. No college, travel, or High School coaches to impress. No jockeying for playing time. No parents working the coach for little Susie. Just pure softball as it was meant to be played, like we used to do as kids playing pickup games at home. We coach as little as needed, all catchers call their own games, of course we still coach and help the players stay focused, but we turn the game over to them as much as possible, as it was meant to be. Its a little heart breaking to hear so many players tell us that this is the most fun they have had playing softball in years and they wish their travel or HS teams were this much fun. Its uplifting for us to hear that the experience was great, but it should not be that way. I tell the players and parents that if you do not walk off the field feeling that way every time, then your doing it wrong. Find a better fit or stop playing. This is not some "everyone gets a trophy" BS either, we play to win and the girls earn their spots on Sunday. You can be successful, work hard and grind, and still not lose the passion to play.

I blame the coaches for this. Its our job to inspire these players and keep them wanting to work because we hold the keys. To keep them ready, relaxed and ready to play instinctively. Say what you mean and do what you say. Consistent, positive, intelligent student of the game coaching. If your the cause of players quitting the game, shame on you and your ego, please find something else to do.

As far as College recruiting, just come ready to play. Show you love the game, your teammates, put in the work you love to put in and it will show on the field. Do that where the coaches are, and if you have the passion and talent, it will take care of itself.

 

[tjsmize3]

Well said Tom. I had a discussion with one of my coaches last night and the same thing was brought up. No matter what level you play at (or think you play at) the common denominator is that we all should be doing this for the purpose of the girls and their families... not the other way around. While there are many personalities in this game and it is hard of all of us to step aside and get out of the way of our own egos, at the end of the day the coach's decisions should start and end from what makes these girls better as both players and young women. I hope you continue to do what you do with WWAST and more people get a chance to see the product. I think the way you described the WWAST experience is what others see also when they look in from the outside.

 

[ssandy]

This is why we only play HS and WWATS's! it wasn't fun anymore our DD wanted the high level of play but not the stress and drama of the illusive scholarship. Our DD had no plans to play D1 or D2 she was planing to go D3 and we knew there was no money for softball it was going to be all academic for her she wanted to play for the love but when you have a few coaches who ruin it for the kids. I hate that the love of the game was overtaken by the pressure. We have had some amazing coaches (Tom being one) but the couple bad ones did her in. it wasn't about playing time she earned her spot she worked for everything she got but... 13u was our last really good year that was 3 yrs ago she played her last travel games in July and i'm sad to watch her walk away from the dream of college ball (with D3 college interest) and her love of something she spent every summer for the past 11 yrs doing but I see it, the fun has been sucked out of the game.

 

[kc0602]

Love this advise. Finding a fit that is fun, comfortable for both our daughter and us as a family was trying this year. I believe we finally made that choice and if I had to 'classify' it, I say we went 'middle of the road'. A lot of post I keep reading to educate myself in this travel world all repeat the exact same thing .. it ultimately comes down to the girl and her talent. I'm hoping our decision is our last for our daughter to grow, learn, develop better skill along with building good solid relationships she will enjoy, carrier through the years ahead AND have fun with as well. Good luck to you and I hope like many here, you find that fit!

Perspective....its a game that is meant to be fun! I tell every player, when it stops being fun, stop playing. Don't care about anything else, if you lose the love of the game and competing, then move on to something else. Your not going to make a living playing, your not going to get your money back via education, your just not. You sacrifice time, money, energy, effort, your body, to pursue something you love. Don't do it for anyone else but your self, your love of the game and your teammates!

If you want to see pure love of the game, come watch our WWAST Wounded Warrior charity team play sometime. When these teams play(10u-18u), all we care about is the game. No college, travel, or High School coaches to impress. No jockeying for playing time. No parents working the coach for little Susie. Just pure softball as it was meant to be played, like we used to do as kids playing pickup games at home. We coach as little as needed, all catchers call their own games, of course we still coach and help the players stay focused, but we turn the game over to them as much as possible, as it was meant to be. Its a little heart breaking to hear so many players tell us that this is the most fun they have had playing softball in years and they wish their travel or HS teams were this much fun. Its uplifting for us to hear that the experience was great, but it should not be that way. I tell the players and parents that if you do not walk off the field feeling that way every time, then your doing it wrong. Find a better fit or stop playing. This is not some "everyone gets a trophy" BS either, we play to win and the girls earn their spots on Sunday. You can be successful, work hard and grind, and still not lose the passion to play.

I blame the coaches for this. Its our job to inspire these players and keep them wanting to work because we hold the keys. To keep them ready, relaxed and ready to play instinctively. Say what you mean and do what you say. Consistent, positive, intelligent student of the game coaching. If your the cause of players quitting the game, shame on you and your ego, please find something else to do.

As far as College recruiting, just come ready to play. Show you love the game, your teammates, put in the work you love to put in and it will show on the field. Do that where the coaches are, and if you have the passion and talent, it will take care of itself.

 

[wow]

Perspective....its a game that is meant to be fun!

I blame the coaches for this. Its our job to inspire these players and keep them wanting to work because we hold the keys. To keep them ready, relaxed and ready to play instinctively. Say what you mean and do what you say. Consistent, positive, intelligent student of the game coaching. If your the cause of players quitting the game, shame on you and your ego, please find something else to do.

As far as College recruiting, just come ready to play. Show you love the game, your teammates, put in the work you love to put in and it will show on the field. Do that where the coaches are, and if you have the passion and talent, it will take care of itself.

Coach, this is the crux of this thread. I could not agree more. Showing true leadership here.

Being a student of the game is key. Players and coaches should be learning from mistakes, effectively managing adversity, and getting better because of the challenges.

 

[Rotte]

Great Post! I would even say that the trend to play out of state, has damaged Ohio softball. It's going to be hard to attract college coaches to Ohio tournaments, when the top players are not around. The cost to play, the so called "High Level, is driving people out of the game. In the interest of the sport, in our State, we must find a balance. To me we have started down the slippery slope, but we can turn it around. Get back to playing 2 or 3 out of state & the big ones in state.

Rich Otte

 

[DW@SBC]

My kids started travel ball at 12u.

Approximate records:
12u 3-23-2
14u 10-22-3
14u 21-19-2
16u 36-18

They have had the opposite experience. Every coach they have had loved the game and the kids made life long friends with the players, and the parents for the most part got along. After first year of 14u my girls had to move to another team because the team aged up and they didn't. 2nd year of 14u was a blast. My girls aged up to 16 but the coaches kids didn't so had to find a new team. First year 16u was a lot of fun and they were asked back to 2nd year of 16u. They have had more fun each year but fun each year regardless of the teams record. Each team and organization was better than the previous team and organization by a significant amount but the fun factor has always been there.

Where fastpitch teams go wrong is in the schedule they play. If you pick the right schedule, say 2 tournaments over your teams abilities, 2 tournaments at your teams abilities, and maybe 2 tournaments where you are one of the favored teams, then you will have fun. If you go to too high of tournaments all the time or too low, you will not have as much fun. Most coaches pick tournaments too high for their teams abilities.