Fall ball/high school/Allowed to play?

[DynastyFastpitch]

I know this has come up in the past but I have literally asked 4 different coaches in the past week and have had 4 different answers. So here goes.....

Can a full roster of high school girls from the same high school (a mix of jv/varsity/10-11 girls total) players play other high school teams made up of the same thing (doubleheaders) on the weekends in Sept. and Oct. and taking turns playing on eachothers fields? Is that considered open fields?
****************The teams have NONE/ZERO/ZILCH high school coaches. The teams have parents coaching it. Seems the 4 player rule comes into play but is that only if a coach from the high school coaches it?

Answers I have been told:
1.)Yes, allowed
2.)No, not allowed
3.) Only 4 players from same team on each team
4.) Can only have "open field" on their own field, so no can't be done

**Again, NO high school coaches involved.

Does anyone know with 100% certainty? Thanks!

 

[BA824]

No you can’t.

You can
1. Have open fields no instruction
2. Give instruction with HS coach following individual instruction 4 at a time
3. Girls can play travel together in Fall but limit 4 from a school. HS coach can now coach that travel team as well

 

[DynastyFastpitch]

ok, thanks BA824

 

[Stedman00]

definately falls within the 4 player rule. doesn't matter who coaches the team. cannot have more than 4 girls playing together in fall, that will then be on same school team come spring.

basically, BA824 nailed it above.

 

[finfan365]

But, this rule does not apply to indoor, correct?

 

[finfan365]

Actually, I disagree with myself, I think. i looked back through where I thought I read this exception and couldn't find it.
I thought I had read on OHSAA something about an exception to the 4 player rule, for indoor play.

 

[Stedman00]

I'm pretty sure that indoor play is entirely different. else how could all these teams play indoors at Sinclair every Feb???

 

[DynastyFastpitch]

finfan,

So if a high school team plays inside, they are allowed, just not allowed if they play outside? Seems silly, playing under the sun, no. Playing under a roof, yes. Very confusing for sure.

 

[MadT]

Participation in Indoor Softball is not a violation of OHSAA Non-interscholastic Sports Regulation 7.3 if played indoors from Nov. 1, 2017 –
February 1, 2018, for student-athletes. But the 4 player rule is in play.

 

[BA824]

Indoors different as OHSAA doesn’t recognize indoor. Can play together Nov 1 to Feb 1 but HS coach can’t coach

 

[finfan365]

finfan,

So if a high school team plays inside, they are allowed, just not allowed if they play outside? Seems silly, playing under the sun, no. Playing under a roof, yes. Very confusing for sure.

Yes that was my thought.
I could be mistaken. I just remember reading a rule regarding the 4 player rule and seeing some caviat stating “does not apply to indoors”. But I cannot find it now so the rule could have been changed or my memory faulty.

 

[CARDS]

Some of the best HS in SW Ohio played fall and winter ball......Have a parent led "recreacional" fall team . In the winter play one or two winter tournaments or, a winter league. I remember a dozen schools back in 2009 through 2013 doing this and I am sure most are still doing it. if not varsity ladies JV or freshmen.

But, with the decline in fall softball...Blanchester, Teal Town, Pisgah, CCAA, and Harrison may have dropped their HS divisions..

 

[Captain_Thunder]

Some of the best HS in SW Ohio played fall and winter ball......Have a parent led "recreacional" fall team . In the winter play one or two winter tournaments or, a winter league. I remember a dozen schools back in 2010-2013 doing this and I am sure most are still doing it.

But, with the decline in softball...Blanchester, Teal Town, Pisgah, CCAA, and Harrison may have dropped their HS divisions..

You can not have more than 4 girls from the same school playing together during Fall ball!
Not sure what teams used to do this - but it ain't allowed!

 

[CARDS]

You can not have more than 4 girls from the same school playing together during Fall ball!
Not sure what teams used to do this - but it ain't allowed!

Back then, Lebanon, Loveland, Ross, Taylor, Harrison, East Central, Little Miami, Mason, L.E. Colerain, F.F, Glen Este, Milford, Blanchester, East Clinton are just a few that fielded fall ball teams.
The Colerain teams said Colerain on the t shirts...LM, Ross, Blanchester, Kings also did not shy away from saying where the ladies came from.

Most of the other teams would play under an alias. Raptors, Comets, Astros, Magic. Tigers, Hawks etc. Now these fall teams may have had a couple players not from the same school but the bulk 6 to 10 were from the same school.
In the winter I would say almost 100% were from the same school. These events were open non roster events so pay the league fee and umpire every week and you are good.
The only issue I ever heard of is when the Glen Este coach coached in the SWOBAT winter league and a parent from an opposing team video taped it.

Of course back then SW Ohio had 6 or 7 fall ball options. (If you look hard you may find one fall league now). There were also several winter options.

We would take the 2 Colerain teams around to different fall leagues that were doube header leagues generally run on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays. The winter leagues or tournaments were played at SWOBAT or SinClair College. The other teams did the same thing but would only field one team.

I am sure there are some schools that still have a good parent network that gets ladies in fall and/or winter activities if, they can find a league or, have enough intrest from the players.

I would think if, you checked into the top 16 tournament teams in each division you will see some type of fall and winter activities.

Boys fall HS baseball is all over Cincinnati with most teams comprised 100% of same HS kids. Heck run out to MABY off river road. Some of these teams are in school uniform and coached by he HS coach. They did change the rule so I guess its ok now.

 

[jt7663]

Does JV / Varsity make a difference in the 4 Girls Rule??
--- For Example^ i.e. One Team is coached by an individual with no school affiliation & has 6 Freshman on this team from same school & want's to participate in a Fall Ball League?

 

[mamoneyoh]

From my understanding if they are freshman, then they technically have not made the team and the (4) rule does not apply until the following year. Once they are sophomores and have played a high school season, then they can't play on a travel team together after July 31st. And that they can only start practicing etc. once the high school season is over. My question is.....who enforces the rule if they get caught and what really happens to the girls.

 

[finfan365]

Looks like 2019 OHSAA regulations have been posted, and they have moved the date for 50% rule up a little from June 1 to May 24th this year.
https://ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Sports/GeneralSportsRegulations.pdf

" The 50 percent team limit is not in effect for the sports of baseball and softball from the Friday before Memorial Day through July 31 provided the members of the school team have completed their school team’s season."

"Note: Students who did NOT play for a school team the previous year do not count in the 50 percent limitation of that sport."

In my case, our district has a middle school sanctioned team. I don't believe that would count as participating, as they mainly deal with varsity and JV numbers, but would be curious to know.

 

[CARDS]

From my understanding if they are freshman, then they technically have not made the team and the (4) rule does not apply until the following year. Once they are sophomores and have played a high school season, then they can't play on a travel team together after July 31st. And that they can only start practicing etc. once the high school season is over. My question is.....who enforces the rule if they get caught and what really happens to the girls.

Rule enforcement is an issue. OHSAA does not have the resources or do they want to check the rosters of the teams that play summer/fall ball. Generlly it is a disgruntaled parent that files a complaint they follow up on. Jerry Snoodgrass said OHSAA is aware of the declining participation in HS Sports and softball around the state at the rec. /feeder level. The 50% rule was put into place from member schools who thought having limits would improve numbers in other sports but it has not worked out that way. Jerry said this and several other rule issues are being looked at for possiable changes. They welcome ideas and concerns so do not be afraid to send them an email about rule questions or concerns!

 

[mamoneyoh]

Thanks Cards! My only fear is having to forfeit games this year because a travel team has more than 4 girls and continue to practice. It doesn't make it fair to the rest of the girls.

 

[CARDS]

Thanks Cards! My only fear is having to forfeit games this year because a travel team has more than 4 girls and continue to practice. It doesn't make it fair to the rest of the girls.

Without a doubt.