Coaching Abuse!!

[Mad Hornet]

This is one of the reasons why players really need to do there homework before committing to a program. Not just at the travel ball level but at the college level as well.
As far as the players that were already there when she was hired, that’s a different story. They had no choice in the matter.

Agree on this point but how does a prospective athlete find this information? Current players always smile and act like everything is great. They don't want to risk the coach's wrath if they get caught scaring a recruit away. What about this? How about a section on this website where players who have graduated or otherwise moved on from a program can write reviews? Just like for just about any other product you can buy these days?

 

[Bean2019]

Hutchins continued.

"Her character is (being questioned). You can knock people's coaching or coaching styles, but this isn't about that. They're attacking her character. What's the complaint? What's the problem? Kids want to have a say in everything and you can't coach a team … a team is one heartbeat. You can't have 15, 20 individuals, and somebody's got to be in charge of that. The leader, the general.

"There's a lot of tough decisions to make. When you make a tough decision, there's always a bunch of people that don't agree with it, because they didn't go through the entire process of making it."

"The story is really, who is running college athletics these days?" she asked. "Student-athletes. Kids say that you're yelling at them when you raise your voice when they can't hear you. They're in the outfield and it's like, 'Hey, move over!' 'Well, you're always yelling at me.' No, I'm not yelling. I'm trying to get your attention.

"Kids twist things into whatever they want and right now this is outrageous. And I've seen it happen to a lot of people."

Just to clarify, you are quoting from a Carol Hutchins' interview for support of Nebraska SB Coach Rhonda Revelle from July of this year. This thread is about Rutger's SB coach Kristen Butler. There may be many similarities in these two situations but I don't think Carol Hutchins is vouching for Butler's character. Hutchins seems to makes a categorical statement that student-athletes concerns are invalid but the school (Nebraska) did the right thing to investigate. This is the statement they released:

First and foremost, the well-being of our student-athletes will always be the top priority at the University of Nebraska," Moos said in the statement. "As previously stated, the concerns brought forward by members of our softball program were taken very seriously.

"We initiated a comprehensive review, and Coach Revelle and her staff understand the seriousness of the student-athlete concerns. As a result of the issues that were raised, we have worked with Coach Revelle to address and alleviate those concerns moving forward.

"The University cannot comment further on a personnel matter."

Oh, and to answer Hutchins' question, the complaint was: "A number of current and former players detailed numerous instances of concerning behavior by Revelle and others in the Husker program, including allegations of persistent verbal and psychological abuse, intimidation, fat-shaming, excessive practice time and disregard of injuries . . ."

Are the allegations true? I don't know but it deserved to be looked at and if that seems to taint a coach's character, so be it. Sorry, no one should be beyond reproach when it involves the well being of student-athletes and maybe the coach needed to look at what she was doing to create this environment at the very least.

Coach Rhonda Revelle was placed on administrative paid leave and reinstated after the investigation.

 

[City Slicker]

but not being able to run 100 in 17 seconds in called poor condition

The fastest woman in the world runs a 100 yard dash at 10 seconds. To expect softball players to run SIX in a row in under 17 is ridiculous, not "poor condition."

 

[Xrayaries]

An average middle school 100meter girl runner is 13.5 seconds with elite middle school girl runners 12.5-12.8. considering 100yards is 9 yards shorter. There is no reason an elite DI college athlete cannot run a 100 yards in under 17 seconds. You are talking about DI athletes this is there job in college. They are getting paid to perform on the field.

 

[City Slicker]

An average middle school 100meter girl runner is 13.5 seconds with elite middle school girl runners 12.5-12.8. considering 100yards is 9 yards shorter. There is no reason an elite DI college athlete cannot run a 100 yards in under 17 seconds. You are talking about DI athletes this is there job in college. They are getting paid to perform on the field.

I agree with everything you say.

Question, how many middle school runners (average and elite) are running those times SIX in a row? I'm gonna guess none.

 

[Long Baller]

I agree with everything you say.

Question, how many middle school runners (average and elite) are running those times SIX in a row? I'm gonna guess none.

Elite: All of them
Average: Quite a few of them

That run should not be an issue for a college age woman that is in decent shape. Granted, not everyone on a softball team is a "runner" so to speak, but 100 yards in 17 seconds is a moderate to hard jog for a D1 female athlete. D1 athletes are the best of the best, right?

Please note that I am not advocating the actions of the coaches in question here. I am commenting solely on the topic of a D1 softball player being able to run 100 yards in 17 seconds X6.

 

[City Slicker]

Elite: All of them
Average: Quite a few of them

That run should not be an issue for a college age woman that is in decent shape. Granted, not everyone on a softball team is a "runner" so to speak, but 100 yards in 17 seconds is a moderate to hard jog for a D1 female athlete. D1 athletes are the best of the best, right?

Please note that I am not advocating the actions of the coaches in question here. I am commenting solely on the topic of a D1 softball player being able to run 100 yards in 17 seconds X6.

I don't disagree with you that a D1 athlete can and should be able to run 100 yards in 17 seconds or lower.

What I am saying is, it is not easy for ANY athlete to run around the bases on a softball field 7.5 times in 1:42.

 

[CARDS]

Looking at a lot of these post there is confusion between a track athlete and a softball athlete... Now yes there are those like Watley and speedsters that may hit numbers stated in this thread but lets be honest....
Watch some of the highest levels of softball and the players all bring different skills to the table.
Sorry, Oysterman,Bustos, Finch, Nuevaman..Smith etc... ..Your body types do not fit the track mold of todays softball so you cant play... After 20+ years of coaching when it counts I have seem much more slower runners go home to home or home to second more than many of the quicker runners on a team... What this coach has done is abuse and they are dam lucky they have not had any players have any serious medical issues.

 

[Xrayaries]

Looking at a lot of these post there is confusion between a track athlete and a softball athlete... Now yes there are those like Watley and speedsters that may hit numbers stated in this thread but lets be honest....
Watch some of the highest levels of softball and the players all bring different skills to the table.
Sorry Oysterman,Bustos, Finch, Nuevaman..Smith etc... ..Your body types do not fit the track mold of todays softball so you cant play... After 20+ years of coaching when it counts I have seem much more slower runners go home to home or home to second than many of the quicker runners...

The track athlete I compared times to were middle school times it's not a tract time. Asking an athlete to run hard at practice is not something that needs to be complained about. Every article I read lead with that grievance.

 

[CARDS]

The track athlete I compared times to were middle school times it's not a tract time. Asking an athlete to run hard at practice is not something that needs to be complained about. Every article I read lead with that grievance.

I am not saying that running and conditioning is not part of the sport... it is, and a good coach should be able to recognize the ladies that are dogging it, and the ones giving all they have. Coaches should also have some system to measure "individual growth" and support all ladies on the team in order to get them to be the best player they can be...

I have seen at all levels of play, coaches that put themselves in the same position as what is found in this thread...situations when they have a idea or number in their head of what an athlete should be doing or performing at and then struggle to understand that every player brings unique attributes to a team. Or, uses disciplinary action team wide that should be handled in a more direct offender manner...

Keilani Ricketts and Taran Alvelo come to mind as bigger ladies that were nowhere near track stars...Some may say, they were the slowest on their teams.. However these ladies worked hard and contributed both on offence and on the mound/defence.
Both ladies were VERY strong and have competed at the highest levels of softball while getting greif about weight, diet,conditioning etc. (Not necessarily from all of their coaches... but the social media experts)...They too would struggle or may not be able to preform the actions requested by these coaches...

IMO, If you as a coach are looking for a specific body type or, player that can hit various bench marks you need be looking for that on the front end while recruiting...Do not recruit a ladie and then try to get them to fit your mold. It just doesn't work in most cases...Thus why we have what we are seeing at the collegiate level with players transferring or deciding to stop playing at an alarming rate...
Same with coaches at (all levels) dropping off with professional development opportunities. Not saying the coach in question is not part of a professional network or, doesn't have any coaching credentials she does but as a rule of thumb....When issues arise at any level its generally from coaches with little to no PD compared to their experience... Like her husband...

Parents need to look for this and ,ask straight forward questions during recruiting... If the coach holds that against a player it is a good sign to move on...
In this case disciplining players with 6 100 yard runs because THEY as coaches failed...in regards to the bill at Cracker Barrel is inexcusable and the coaches deserve the negative feedback they are getting and if reports are true with athletes falling out, getting sick the whole coaching staff should be required to be retrained in their EAP and SCA...

 

[Xrayaries]

These coaches obviously want to eliminate the girls that can't run. They are the new regime. They seem to have less empathy for those who struggle. Pushing yourself to the point of collapsing is not uncommon in elite athletes.

Where do consequences stop and begin. If the rule is $ and going over has a penalty for even 1$ over does it really matter. The girls knew there would be consequences they failed to make it work.

I only half murdered a man yesterday. I only stabbed him with half a knife. I think I should get half the sentence.

That is ludicrous!

 

[CARDS]

https://www.softballamerica.com/sto...announces-investigation-into-softball-claims/

Losing 10 players must have been an eye opener...

Looks like the dominos are starting to fall. The husband has been removed from softball team and the University President has ordered an outside investigation into the allegations. The University self reporting practice infractions to the NCAA may indicate additional action is coming down the road with the scholarship threats.

The AD is also coming under fire for slow or no action. AD Hobbs apology for not vigilantly addressing concerns may not be enough for him or the deputy director of athletics to keep their jobs. now that NJ Lawmakers are involved.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/people/lawmakers-call-for-rutgers-ad-to-resign.html

 

[daboss]

This is my first post in the thread. I have been reading everything shared intently. I saw no need to share my opinion until now. The only reason I am writing is because I feel the true purpose of the thread was to bring to light the alleged abuse by a college coach and included the notable abuse by her husband that at some capacity was on staff. Why has this thread become an argument about conditioning?

The coach in question has implemented a military drill Sargent approach to motivate. I don't believe conditioning is the issue. Most of the posts that discussed the alleged abuse shared that punishments included physical tasks that may or may not be acceptable. Perhaps the expectations exceeded the physical limits of the individual players. That's not the issue. The issue should be was she crossing a line and abusing some of the players as a way, I assume was meant, to motivate them. From the posts from others that had direct exposure to the coach and/or family that has/had, it appears her methods crossed boundaries that go beyond the scope of her authority.

Even the military has changed their archaic methods of training and motivating modern-day solders. While some hard-liners may say they are too soft, we now sport one of the best military forces in the world. They are hands down the best trained and conditioned, the best and most efficient bang for the buck military our country has ever had represent us------------------ever. They DID NOT get this way by berating, belittling, demoralizing, or crushing the confidence or self esteem of the individuals that openly enlist to be a part of our country's team-------the military.

We have openly studied human beings and know the majority do not respond to those archaic methods once practiced. Shakes your heads in disagreement, then re-read the paragraph above. Keep in mind, we no longer need the draft because people openly enlist. Things have changed for the better. Again, re-read the paragraph above......

I've tried hard to not voice my opinions on the allegations against the coach in question. I'm willing to allow the system to investigate and come to a conclusion as to how they want their program to be seen. If this is the image they want, it is their choice. From that, individuals can choose if they want to be a part of it.

A couple of widely known names were used to try and secure a position that their opinion is right. Woody Hayes, Bobby Knight, when I hear these names my first reaction is never of the good they may have done for certain individuals over their careers as mentors. I recollect the damage they caused. People tend to remember the last bad thing you did regardless of any of the good. We all make mistakes. The greatest mistake you can make in life is to ignore it and keep repeating it. Time never makes a wrong right.

 

[swohio]

This is my first post in the thread. I have been reading everything shared intently. I saw no need to share my opinion until now. The only reason I am writing is because I feel the true purpose of the thread was to bring to light the alleged abuse by a college coach and included the notable abuse by her husband that at some capacity was on staff. Why has this thread become an argument about conditioning?

The coach in question has implemented a military drill Sargent approach to motivate. I don't believe conditioning is the issue. Most of the posts that discussed the alleged abuse shared that punishments included physical tasks that may or may not be acceptable. Perhaps the expectations exceeded the physical limits of the individual players. That's not the issue. The issue should be was she crossing a line and abusing some of the players as a way, I assume was meant, to motivate them. From the posts from others that had direct exposure to the coach and/or family that has/had, it appears her methods crossed boundaries that go beyond the scope of her authority.

Even the military has changed their archaic methods of training and motivating modern-day solders. While some hard-liners may say they are too soft, we now sport one of the best military forces in the world. They are hands down the best trained and conditioned, the best and most efficient bang for the buck military our country has ever had represent us------------------ever. They DID NOT get this way by berating, belittling, demoralizing, or crushing the confidence or self esteem of the individuals that openly enlist to be a part of our country's team-------the military.

We have openly studied human beings and know the majority do not respond to those archaic methods once practiced. Shakes your heads in disagreement, then re-read the paragraph above. Keep in mind, we no longer need the draft because people openly enlist. Things have changed for the better. Again, re-read the paragraph above......

I've tried hard to not voice my opinions on the allegations against the coach in question. I'm willing to allow the system to investigate and come to a conclusion as to how they want their program to be seen. If this is the image they want, it is their choice. From that, individuals can choose if they want to be a part of it.

A couple of widely known names were used to try and secure a position that their opinion is right. Woody Hayes, Bobby Knight, when I hear these names my first reaction is never of the good they may have done for certain individuals over their careers as mentors. I recollect the damage they caused. People tend to remember the last bad thing you did regardless of any of the good. We all make mistakes. The greatest mistake you can make in life is to ignore it and keep repeating it. Time never makes a wrong right.

I’m not saying you are wrong, but every situation is different. There has to be a happy medium, because lack of discipline and accountability is the problem with today’s youth. Maybe if these kids were taught to be accountable at home, the coaches wouldn’t have to do it. They have not been found guilty of anything yet. But they are judged because people don’t like their methods. Coddling these kids would have made it worse that punishing them, just my fact based opinion though. It starts at home, teach these kids to be accountable, and to work harder than the next kid, then a lot of this goes away.

 

[CARDS]

I’m not saying you are wrong, but every situation is different. There has to be a happy medium, because lack of discipline and accountability is the problem with today’s youth. Maybe if these kids were taught to be accountable at home, the coaches wouldn’t have to do it. They have not been found guilty of anything yet. But they are judged because people don’t like their methods. Coddling these kids would have made it worse that punishing them, just my fact based opinion though. It starts at home, teach these kids to be accountable, and to work harder than the next kid, then a lot of this goes away.

Like Dabos stated: its not a conditioning issue or a ungrateful player issue. All evidence suggest its a coaching issue.

I would guess the coach has her supporters and maybe, just maybe the 10 players that left the program may have not had parents that instilled enough discipline and accountability at home but, I highly doubt it since these ladies made it as far as they did in a BIG10 program working harder to beat out the next kid.

Since the investigation is still ongoing its hard to project how deep the issues are but if there was no merit to the complaints I doubt the AD would be apologizing or that the university would have voluntary reported to the NCAA the practice issues.

 

[Xrayaries]

This is my first post in the thread. I have been reading everything shared intently. I saw no need to share my opinion until now. The only reason I am writing is because I feel the true purpose of the thread was to bring to light the alleged abuse by a college coach and included the notable abuse by her husband that at some capacity was on staff. Why has this thread become an argument about conditioning?

The coach in question has implemented a military drill Sargent approach to motivate. I don't believe conditioning is the issue. Most of the posts that discussed the alleged abuse shared that punishments included physical tasks that may or may not be acceptable. Perhaps the expectations exceeded the physical limits of the individual players. That's not the issue. The issue should be was she crossing a line and abusing some of the players as a way, I assume was meant, to motivate them. From the posts from others that had direct exposure to the coach and/or family that has/had, it appears her methods crossed boundaries that go beyond the scope of her authority.

Even the military has changed their archaic methods of training and motivating modern-day solders. While some hard-liners may say they are too soft, we now sport one of the best military forces in the world. They are hands down the best trained and conditioned, the best and most efficient bang for the buck military our country has ever had represent us------------------ever. They DID NOT get this way by berating, belittling, demoralizing, or crushing the confidence or self esteem of the individuals that openly enlist to be a part of our country's team-------the military.

We have openly studied human beings and know the majority do not respond to those archaic methods once practiced. Shakes your heads in disagreement, then re-read the paragraph above. Keep in mind, we no longer need the draft because people openly enlist. Things have changed for the better. Again, re-read the paragraph above......

I've tried hard to not voice my opinions on the allegations against the coach in question. I'm willing to allow the system to investigate and come to a conclusion as to how they want their program to be seen. If this is the image they want, it is their choice. From that, individuals can choose if they want to be a part of it.

A couple of widely known names were used to try and secure a position that their opinion is right. Woody Hayes, Bobby Knight, when I hear these names my first reaction is never of the good they may have done for certain individuals over their careers as mentors. I recollect the damage they caused. People tend to remember the last bad thing you did regardless of any of the good. We all make mistakes. The greatest mistake you can make in life is to ignore it and keep repeating it. Time never makes a wrong right.

Any officer in direct command will tell you they have limited resources and the quality of recruits is at an all time low.

Like Dabos stated: its not a conditioning issue or a ungrateful player issue. All evidence suggest its a coaching issue.

I would guess the coach has her supporters and maybe, just maybe the 10 players that left the program may have not had parents that instilled enough discipline and accountability at home but, I highly doubt it since these ladies made it as far as they did in a BIG10 program working harder to beat out the next kid.

Since the investigation is still ongoing its hard to project how deep the issues are but if there was no merit to the complaints I doubt the AD would be apologizing or that the university would have voluntary reported to the NCAA the practice issues.

I do t think the AD needed to apologize. You will often find parents that over defend their children and add additional untruths to their kids stories. I have seen it first hand at the HS level. Speaking from experience only 30% of this story holds true to what the kids parents are saying.

 

[CARDS]

Any officer in direct command will tell you they have limited resources and the quality of recruits is at an all time low.

I do t think the AD needed to apologize. You will often find parents that over defend their children and add additional untruths to their kids stories. I have seen it first hand at the HS level. Speaking from experience only 30% of this story holds true to what the kids parents are saying.

True, I have seen situations where parents/players may have exaggerated situations but if there were situations that were not properly addressed by administration they too set themselves and the coaches up for scrutiny. Also, remember where parents did not act when there was red flags with the swimming and gymnastic scandals.

I guess enough was true to get the assistant coach (husband) removed from the team and to have so many players leave raised concerns. The good coming out is it looks like several players upgraded to better SEC/ACC programs...

 

[22dad]

Man, this is great conversation. I am sure the truth is in the middle but don't overlook that there are 2 that posted earlier with direct experience with this couple. I have to give them credence. Their DDs would not have made it to Toledo without some tolerance for this and ability.

 

[Bibb]

Man, this is great conversation. I am sure the truth is in the middle but don't overlook that there are 2 that posted earlier with direct experience with this couple. I have to give them credence. Their DDs would not have made it to Toledo without some tolerance for this and ability.

You’re right, it is great conversation. I also agree the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It’s just a messed up time right now, where everyone is punished for hurting peoples feelings. I have no dog in this fight at all, and usually where there’s smoke, there’s fire. But I’m sure there’s a lot from the other side of this story that we are not hearing.

 

[daboss]

Any officer in direct command will tell you they have limited resources and the quality of recruits is at an all time low.

Any officer in direct command has always said they have limited resources and the quality of recruits are at an all time low. They are always frustrated, never satisfied, because they want their job to be easier. My guess is officers in this position as far back as the revolutionary war have complained. When and if this country goes 100% robotic ground troops they'll complain about them as well. They want perfection. That's why they are good at what they do. This same result can be achieved without belittling a human being.

The thread is about an individual coach. Her methods and practices as a head coach allegedly crossed boundaries. The allegations go beyond running some sprints. Whether it is her methods to motivate and/or control, or her lack of simple people skills, The college she represents and the NCAA will soon make a decision on her future.

The thread has made a turn and the debate seems to be who is accountable. I cannot tell parents how to raise their kids. As coaches and mentors we can only deal with the product (player) the supplier (parents) have provided (raised). We have an extreme influence on the kids while in our care. They are individuals from diverse backgrounds. None will be exactly like our own kids. On that note, did all our kids turn out exactly as we wanted? Mine did not not. I live with that pain everyday.

I mentioned in the original post "The greatest mistake you can make in life is to ignore it and keep repeating it." This rings true to parents, kids, and coaches. It still requires us to accept responsibility and be held accountable for our part in anything inappropriate. Our comments are not inappropriate. We voice opinions. Having said that, I don't agree with the methods and practices she allegedly used as a head coach. I don't consider myself a soft coach. I simply approach it differently and encourage the players to self motivate and excel. Make it their idea. I don't need the ego boost. It's their time to shine.