20 second rule

[default]

Giving time is not an automatic thing after the batter reaches the box.

Lazy umpires are the umpires who don't allow the batter to get set in her first intial set up. Put your hands up and hold the pitcher until batter gets set.

The pitcher can use that 10 seconds to change the flow of the game. Pitching at three seconds one time.. six seconds another.. even nine seconds another... I am on the pitcher's side here. That is a stragety here and why the rule is in place.

I never give time to the batter when the pitcher hits the pitcher's plate. NEVER. Pitcher has ten seconds to throw the ball is the bottom line here.

Unless, a bee is flying around her or a swirl of dust

I think its a good policy to give time when a batter asks for it. Like you said, dust, bee, something in her eye, etc. Umpires generally use good judgement here. If asking for time appears to be a strategy for game disruption, then an umpire should refuse to grant it.

 

[default]

Lazy umpires are these idiots that are not allowing the batter to set.

Every pitch.

She sets as a batter.. and now the pitcher has 10 seconds to throw or it's a ball.

Very simple rule to understand.

I know in rainy situations it is different. I have seen girls batting shifting their hands to get a grip and I WILL call time.. as this is a safety issues with me and give her a rag in my pocket to dry her hands off and get reset.

 

[default]

brownsfan:

This ump told us that merely putting her hand up was not sufficient during her set-up. According to him, she has to ask for and receive a statement of time from the ump.

 

[default]

Ohioquakerman, it sounds like you inforce the rules as they are meant to be. Giving both the batter and the pitcher what they are entitled to by rule.
As you explained if you do not enforce the rules you are giving one an unfair advantage. The batter get her up to 10 seconds to get set, the pitcher then gets her up to ten seconds to pitch. (By rule the batter gets 10 and the pitcher gets 20, so the way you are doing it is perfect.)

Ohioquakerman, you did a great job of explaining it. Thanks

 

[default]

Quake and Serene:

You are interpreting Rule 6.1.e as saying that the pitcher is ENTITLED to her ten seconds, as opposed to being subject to the RESTRICTION of ten seconds.

Here is the text of Section 6.1.3:

"The pitcher shall bring the hands together for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing it."

As a lawyer interpreting this Code language, I would never tell a client that this creates an ENTITLEMENT to 10 full seconds so that the umpire has no ability to call time out for reasons that include a request by the hitter. The Rule restricts the pitcher by saying that she MUST pitch within the 10 seconds and it in no way limits the ability of the umpire to call time, which of course creates a new 10 second period on the ensuing pitch.

Sorry Quake and Serene but I think you are dead wrong in your entitlement interpretation of this rule. And Quake, if you really believe the provision creates an entitlement, then you have no right to call for time in rainy weather.

Show me a point of emphasis or other official ASA interpretation that supports your "entitlement" theory; that's the only way I'm backing off my interpretation. 'Sides, I've got the Bretman in my corner.

 

[default]

The pitcher shall bring the hands together for more than one but not more than ten.

Why would you not interpret these words to mean what they mean???? They are words that say 1 to 10 seconds - What else could it mean??????
How much plainer does it need to be? That is the rule. 6.1.e
Does it depend on what your definition of is is? (Bill Clinton - I aways liked that one)

The pitcher has a total of 20 seconds to deliver the ball from when she receives it or when the umpire says play ball.

The batter can not keep interupting the pitcher by calling time just because she does not like the staggered deliveries. If the pitcher staggers her delivery from 1 to 3 to 9 to 6 that is a legal delivery. At least 5 umpires at our last tournament did not know the rule (I can only assume because most pitchers can not delay their motion that long) If the umpire allows time (more than once for this) it is obvious that the umpire does not know the rule. A bee, knats flying around, wind kicks up, ok give time, but otherwise the umpires lack of knowledge of the rule is affecting the game. It is OK if his lack of judgement affects the game, but the lack of knowledge of the rules is unacceptable.

cgs, does Brettman know Ohioquakerman? ;&

 

[default]

I'm sticking with cgs on this. She is waaaay smarter than I am.

 

[default]

I'm sticking with cgs on this. She is waaaay smarter than I am.

Me too, Cause cgs has it right.

 

[default]

The pitcher has a total of 20 seconds to deliver the ball from when she receives it or when the umpire says play ball.

You're correct she has 20 seconds from the time the catcher returns the ball to her, She must step on the plate with hands seperated with ball in hand or glove. Once she brings her hands together she has 10 seconds to complete her motion and release the ball. Most umpires will not call time if she is already in motion. My DD will bring her hands together and then count for a few seconds before going into her windmill. If I'm not mistaken motion does not technically begin until the hands are seperated again once brought together.

 

[default]

I know Bret, yes... He does ASA and I do USSSA mostly.

The batter is set in.. and the pitcher has up to 10 seconds to pitch. Bottom line that is the rule.

Carol, in rainy weather it is a safety issue and thus an umpire can do whatever it takes to make the game safe... so thus it is allowed. In USSSA, there is a rule called Rule 10 which essentially says I as am umpire can do whatever I need to do to make the game fair and safe.

But, batter sets.. and pitcher has 10 seconds to throw the ball.

My pitcher ... as a coach... I would want her to mix it up time wise all the time. Keep the batters guessing.

 

[default]

YUP - cgs has this one nailed as far as the pitcher's responsibilities.

Don't forget that the pitcher can also "call time" simply by stepping back off the pitcher's plate during her "simulated signal taking" and before starting the pitch. Too many of these will usually prompt a "circle meeting" with the umpire, where a "not-so-polite" request is made to avoid that stuff, and get on with the game. Likewise, umpires usually give batters a reasonable amount of time to "get set" - tell your DD to avoid bat-twirling, etc. and she'll have plenty of time - after which the umpire will point to the pitcher that she's on the clock.

Game delays at higher levels of the game are usually not a problem, and are well controlled by the umpires. When enforced, ASA rules cover nearly every stall tactic that's been tried. That's why it's not very common in ASA and NCAA.

 

[default]

Me too, Cause cgs has it right.

She's not right, Musty. Umpires might do that.. allowing batters to gain time again.. but THAT is what is not right. The umpires allowing it other than an emergency ( bees,dust bunnies flying around, etc..).. is what is not right.

Sure, it's done.. but it not right to do so.

It is the pitcher's OPTION to throw at 2 seconds or at 9 seconds. " Nine you're fine and 10 you're mine" is the saying.

 

[default]

In USSSA, there is a rule called Rule 10 which essentially says I as am umpire can do whatever I need to do to make the game fair and safe.

Quakerman - you are entitled to make the game fair? Does that mean you can give the other team a broader strike zone? How about 4 strikes instead of 3? I know I'm being a bit over dramatic, but umpires making the game fair is such a pet peeve of mine. If I'm not properly prepared for my opponent than I deserve to get my butt handed to me. It's not up to the umpire to disadvantage the other team based on skill.

 

[default]

Giving time is not an automatic thing after the batter reaches the box.

Lazy umpires are the umpires who don't allow the batter to get set in her first intial set up. Put your hands up and hold the pitcher until batter gets set.

The pitcher can use that 10 seconds to change the flow of the game. Pitching at three seconds one time.. six seconds another.. even nine seconds another... I am on the pitcher's side here. That is a stragety here and why the rule is in place.

I never give time to the batter when the pitcher hits the pitcher's plate. NEVER. Pitcher has ten seconds to throw the ball is the bottom line here.

Unless, a bee is flying around her or a swirl of dust

That is so ridicules I hope I'm never at a tourney you work. So HOW are you going to know if a bee flew into the girls helmet??? What if she gets a cramp, dust in her eye, bug in her face??? You won't know but you being a hard @ss won't give time to a CHILD. You want to be a hard butt go work the pro games and leave it away from the children's games. Just my thought on this .

 

[default]

I don't think that was said, Jdcii about strike zone, etc...

Rule 10 gives you as an umpire to make the game fair based on calls.. or if you screwed up as an umpire and know it you can set it straight and make the game "fair", etc...

But, having a different strike zone for each team is unheard of actually and a first to me.

They do that up North ?

 

[default]

That is so ridicules I hope I'm never at a tourney you work. So HOW are you going to know if a bee flew into the girls helmet??? What is she gets a cramp, dust in her eye, bug in her face??? You won't know but you being a hard @ss won't give time to a CHILD. You want to be a hard butt go work the pro games and leave it away from the children's games. Just my thought on this .

You been to a few already...LOL

It has nothing to do with being hard.. it has to do with the rules.

Rules is batter sets and pitcher has 10 seconds to pitch. Why would I give the advantage to the batter by allowing her to ask for time because the pitcher went eight seconds so far without pitching?

Am I not taking away from the pitcher? She's within the rules and guidelines

 

[default]

Pitcher has 10 seconds to pitch means she has to make the pitch within 10 seconds, can't take 11 seconds, but it DOES NOT say that it is with out time being called during that 10 seconds. DOES NOT say that time cannot be called during that 10 seconds does it?

Can you find in the rules where it says the ump cannot call time for the batter during that 10 seconds??

 

[default]

Quake and Serene:

The rule doesn't say that the pitcher is ENTITLED or has an UNQUALIFIED OPTION to the full ten seconds. It simply says that she "must" deliver the pitch within ten seconds; it is a RESTRICTION that does not eliminate the right of a hitter to ask for time-out and the discretion of the umpire to grant that.

If ASA intended this rule to eliminate time-out calls once the pitcher has stepped on the plate, it could have easily drafted the rules as follows:

"The pitcher shall bring the hands together for not less than one second and not more than 10 seconds before releasing it; requests for a time-out during this 10 second period shall not be granted."

In the law, when interpreting statutes and other Code language, the interpreter is not empowered to add language that the drafter could have easily inserted had the drafter intended the result of the additional language. So at law we would interpret the rule as presently drafted to say that the pitcher must pitch within 10 seconds in the absence of a granted time-out and that the pitcher is not ENTITLED to the full 10 seconds in the face of a request of time out. And as Sammy astutely points out, when the pitcher and the catcher are not on the same page, the pitcher is entitled to step off the plate and get a time out. That's surely not written into the rule as an entitlement, so why would we read the rule to restrict the discretion of the umpire in each of these situations?

This is not a Bill Clinton special. My interpretation is based upon well-established principles of statutory interpretation.

Again, show me a point of emphasis or another written ASA interpretation; in the absence of that, I would be committing malpractice (should this be in the context of a lawsuit, which of course it never will be) if I advised a client that a reasonable interpretation of this rule entitles the defense to pitch the ball within 10 seconds even if a time has been requested and granted.

 

[default]

Rule 10 gives you as an umpire to make the game fair based on calls.. or if you screwed up as an umpire and know it you can set it straight and make the game "fair", etc...

It's not up to you to "make it fair". You are to be as inconspicuous as humanly possible and to keep the game moving. Not to make calls that make a game more "fair". That's what jdcii meant by the strike zone thing. We have seen umpires (been told by some of them) that if a pitcher is obviously weaker than another, his strike zone is more lenient. To me, that is BS. I have seen umps who will award a very weak team an out on a play that wasn't even close in their favor, because they are stuck in the world's longest inning and can't make the outs for themselves. If we are doing that poorly against another team, that is our problem, not the umpires.

 

[default]

Commenting on various points raised here...

-Yes, Quakerman and I know each other. I have worked a tournament for him in the past.

- An umpire should never allow the pitcher to pitch until the batter is set and ready to receive a pitch (within the framework of the batter having ten seconds to get set). On her initial set-up, there really shouldn't be any reason for a batter to be requesting time as the umpire should be allowing her to get situated. If it looks like the pitcher is going to go before the batter's ready, the umpire should suspend play himself (ie: hold up the "do not pitch" sign to the pitcher).

There should never be any "cat and mouse" games going on with the pitcher trying to pitch while the batter is off balance or not ready. This can constitute a "quick pitch" which isn't allowed under the rules.

- The "ten second rule" doesn't have anything to do with how long the pitcher has to release the pitch, how long the the batter has to get set or the batter requesting time. It is only a requirement of the pitching preliminaries that the pitcher must adhere to prior to starting the pitch.

There's no rule that would prevent a batter from requesting time once the pitcher joins her hands and there certainly isn't anything that would prevent an umpire from calling time here if he sees fit.

As a matter of good game management umpires should not grant repeated requests for time once the batter is set and the pitcher is in position to pitch. But there's nothing that says time can't be granted in this situation. We're just not supposed to let it get out of hand to the point that it is disrupting or delaying the game.