20 second rule

default

default

Member
Amen Quakerman! At least some one is reading the book..

The one umpire we had not only did not know the rule he was a miserable man who said he didn't care when the pitcher said sorry and tried to explain.
We found out later he is in charge of hundreds of umpires. What a shame that is. Miserable man should not be umpiring. Miserable and a lack of knowledge is no way to go through life.

OK cgs how about this - first pitch the pitcher waits until 8 seconds, the batter gets nervous and calls time. Batter gets back in, the pitcher goes to nine - Are you going to give time again? Next pitch 9 batter doesn't like it, do you give time? The batter is delaying the game, not the pitcher.

I am not saying that the batter can never get time, but I am saying if the umpire gives time just because the batter calls it because she does not like the delay he is wrong.
Rule 6.1.e

Better yet cgs, show me the rule that states that the pitcher can touch her hands for 9 seconds every pitch?
 
default

default

Member
I am not saying that the batter can never get time, but I am saying if the umpire gives time just because the batter calls it because she does not like the delay he is wrong.
Rule 6.1.e

Rule 6.1.E is a pitching preliminary and the pitch has not started until "one hand has been taken off of the ball after the hands have been placed together." (Rule 6.2).

Rule 7.3.E says that after the ball is in play, the batter may not step out of the batter's box to stop play unless time has been granted by the umpire. As an exception, time may be granted if special conditions warrant it (ball from another field, dust, etc.)

Neither rule precludes a batter from calling time during the pitching preliminary, only when the ball is in play.
 
default

default

Member
Never would that be right to make calls on safe or out... based on "fair". Or a strike zone difference for each pitcher. That is unheard of around the umpires I have umpired with, Crystal. But, sadly you do hear of such things .

Fair is changing a call or changing a call of strike or ball. It gives me that option if I think it is "fair" to do so.

Musty, ASA made the rules for a CHILD.

Ten seconds for the batter.. then 10 seconds for the pitcher to pitch.

Do I call a time-out for the batter just because the batter THINKS the pitcher is taking too long? Absolutely not. The pitcher is within her guidelines of the rule.

You as a batter had your 10 seconds to set... the Pitcher now has her rule to go by as well.
 
default

default

Member
Never would that be right to make calls on safe or out... based on "fair". Or a strike zone difference for each pitcher. That is unheard of around the umpires I have umpired with, Crystal. But, sadly you do hear of such things .

Fair is changing a call or changing a call of strike or ball. It gives me that option if I think it is "fair" to do so.

Musty, ASA made the rules for a CHILD.

Ten seconds for the batter.. then 10 seconds for the pitcher to pitch.

Do I call a time-out for the batter just because the batter THINKS the pitcher is taking too long? Absolutely not. The pitcher is within her guidelines of the rule.

You as a batter had your 10 seconds to set... the Pitcher now has her rule to go by as well.

And how do you know a batter is calling time just because a pitcher is taking too long? You some kind of mind reader? "The pitcher is within her guidelines of the rule" Yes, if she pitches within the 10 seconds but why are you ignoring my request to show me the rule that says time cannot be calles during that 10 seconds?? You can't because it's your hard @ss rule and not in the books.
 
default

default

Member
Rule 6.1.E is a pitching preliminary and the pitch has not started until "one hand has been taken off of the ball after the hands have been placed together." (Rule 6.2).

Rule 7.3.E says that after the ball is in play, the batter may not step out of the batter's box to stop play unless time has been granted by the umpire. As an exception, time may be granted if special conditions warrant it (ball from another field, dust, etc.)

Neither rule precludes a batter from calling time during the pitching preliminary, only when the ball is in play.

"Special Conditions" is the wording for ASA? Just because a batter THINKS the pitcher is taking too long.. I would say would NOT fall under that "special conditions" category.
 
default

default

Member
And how do you know a batter is calling time just because a pitcher is taking too long? You some kind of mind reader? "The pitcher is within her guidelines of the rule" Yes, if she pitches within the 10 seconds but why are you ignoring my request to show me the rule that says time cannot be calles during that 10 seconds?? You can't because it's your hard @ss rule and not in the books.

Tom, what says an umpire has to do so? It doesn't.

It gives guidelines to go by for an umpire. 10 seconds for the batter.. and ten seconds for the pitcher... and no time unless "special conditions" warrant it.

Pretty clear cut rule in my opinion after reading ASA rules presented here
 
default

default

Member
Serene:

If the batter is delaying the game through excessive requests for time, umpire doesn't have to grant the request. All our players know that simply because they ask for time, doesn't mean it will be granted. Nothing in the Code restricts the player from asking for time or the umpire from granting it. And nothing in the Code ENTITLES the pitcher to a full 10 seconds without any request for time. If a pitcher feels frozen because she and her catcher can't get together on a pitch, and the pitcher can step off the mound for time, why isn't the hitter who is equally frozen because the catcher and the pitcher can't get together entitled to at least ask the umpire for time?

cshilt: I don't disagree with your analysis of the Code language entitling the pitcher to step off the mound. I'm just looking for some Code-based language entitling the pitcher to a full ten seconds without any possibility of the hitter asking for time. If the hitter really is appearing to try to delay the game, umpire can tell her she's not going to get any more times when she requests them.
 
default

default

Member
Quake:

Show me where the umpire's discretion to call time in this situation is limited under the ASA Code to "special circumstances" and if I agree with your Code interpretation, I'll be happy to back off of my position.
 
default

default

Member
Tune sure is changing here. First they say you can't have time within the 10 seconds but now are saying you shouldn't have it. Quaker flake says its okay under "special conditions" but he would have to be a mind reader to pick up his special conditions. Spell out these special conditions and how you would know mindful your looking at the pitcher (or should be). Sure makes someone want to join your tourneys. You fit in well with the ump you have (or had) that says HIS strike zone is from BELOW the belt to the knees. haha
 
default

default

Member
mustachio she can call time all she wants, but an umpire who knows the rules is not going to grant it unless there is some other reason to grant it other than the pitchers delay. No he does not need to be a mind reader, he just needs to look to see if there is a reason to grant time other than the pitcher taking her full 10 second stop.

cshilt yes it is in the preliminary, but the pitcher must stop, 1 to 10 seconds. The batter can call time but like above an umpire who knows the rules is not going to grant it unless there is some other reason to grant time other than the pitchers delay.

Bottom line is by rule you can not use time outs to delay the game or to reset after you have already taken your position as ready in the box.

My fingers are getting tired.
 
default

default

Member
cgs, part of your one post I think holds a hint of the answer. "If the hitter really is appearing to try to delay the game, umpire can tell her she's not going to get any more times when she requests them." Or if he know the rule he will deny time and then tell her why he did so after the pitch so she knows for the next pitch. But again any umpire who grants time just because the batter is uncomfortable waiting is wrong. Just like the pitcher can not start until the batter is ready,. The batter can take her good old time getting set, but once she is set, it is the pitchers turn to take her good old time if she wants.
 
default

default

Member
Musty - I'm going to start calling you Mustachio! I love it! :lmao:
 
default

default

Member
It would be fun having my DD read through this thread! I can hear it now: "C'mon people... this is NOT rocket science!"

It's no wonder there are STILL misunderstandings about replants and leaping when this straight forward stuff is mangled! :eek:
 
default

default

Member
Well, this thread certainly spun off on several interesting tangents. :)

With respect to pitchers taking too long to pitch, pitchers pitching too quickly, batters asking for time and batters taking too long to get set in the box, on the whole these have essentially been non-issues in games for me. I've had the pleasure to work about 100 games this year and could probably count on one hand the number of times any of this stuff has come up in one of my games.

I'm not seeing any real abuse of these rules by players and would consider them to be way down the list of things to worry about to properly administer a ballgame. Sure, they do pop up on occassion. I've found that when they do they're easy enough to address and keep from getting out of hand.

Just one umpire's perspective and opinion!
 
default

default

Member
Agreed bretman,
In my dd's 3 years of playing, it has happend to her once. I'm sure it may increase once she gets older, but not every game.
 
default

default

Member
Well, this thread certainly spun off on several interesting tangents. :)

With respect to pitchers taking too long to pitch, pitchers pitching too quickly, batters asking for time and batters taking too long to get set in the box, on the whole these have essentially been non-issues in games for me. I've had the pleasure to work about 100 games this year and could probably count on one hand the number of times any of this stuff has come up in one of my games.

I'm not seeing any real abuse of these rules by players and would consider them to be way down the list of things to worry about to properly administer a ballgame. Sure, they do pop up on occassion. I've found that when they do they're easy enough to address and keep from getting out of hand.

Just one umpire's perspective and opinion!

I agree Bret,

I've hardly ever witnessed a pitcher "quick-pitching" or unduly delaying a game by going over the 20 second marker. My original question was based on what I saw (and timed) and the reason I did so was because I was so surprised by her pace.

As this was a fall ball league, rules are sometimes "loosely" adhered to, with umpires and coaches often instructing rather than enforcing. In a high school game or travel tournament, these violations would be easily rectified.
 
default

default

Member
In a high school game or travel tournament, these violations would be easily rectified.

Not quite OnTheBucket, at this past weekends showcase the home plate umpires did not give the pitcher her time. Each time she went more than 5 seconds the batter would ask for time and it was granted. I think next time instead of staggering her delivery she should go to 9 on every pitch in the beginning just to "establish" the rule. Hopefully the umpire will not grant time on every pitch cause if he does it will be a long day.
 
default

default

Member
Not quite OnTheBucket, at this past weekends showcase the home plate umpires did not give the pitcher her time. Each time she went more than 5 seconds the batter would ask for time and it was granted. I think next time instead of staggering her delivery she should go to 9 on every pitch in the beginning just to "establish" the rule. Hopefully the umpire will not grant time on every pitch cause if he does it will be a long day.

How about....easily rectified by an umpire that was following the rules?:)
 
default

default

Member
It's not really a case of an umpire "not following a rule"- as already noted there's no rule preventing an umpire from suspending play here, or at any other point in the game for that matter.

But I will agree that it sounds like you saw an umpire that needs to brush up on his game management skills. If time was being granted as often as you say, and only five seconds into the pitching sequence, then it was getting out of hand and causing unnecessary game delays. That should always be addressed and prevented.

The easiest way to prevent abuse of this is to initially call time the first time this happens, just to ensure that the batter isn't off-balance or relaxed when a pitch is thrown (more as a safety measure) or that the pitcher doesn't stop her motion- creating an illegal pitch- in reaction to the batter's time request.

Now, as you're allowing everyone to re-set, simply remind the batter that she needs to stay in the box and be ready once the pitcher is set and that unnecessary time outs will not be granted. Then...don't grant them!

Problem solved, quickly and easily, without further delaying the game. You've now put the batters on notice and they are aware that they aren't going to be getting time called for no good reason. This technique has never failed me and will put a stop to repeated requests for time.

In umpire training that I've gone through, I've been taught that umpires don't need to be "rules Nazis" about things like this. What if one isolated batter takes eleven seconds to get in the box instead of ten, or a pitcher is pushing the time limit to release the pitch once in awhile? It's not like the umpire has a stopwatch he's staring at during this sequence. These rules aren't intended as a "gotcha!" for umpires to start imposing penalties for infrequent or borderline violations. These rules are in place to prevent game delays and that is the spirit and intent under which they should be administered. An infrequent or borderline infraction can be ignored and perhaps a warning issued. Then, if the players continue to abuse these limits, apply and enforce the rule and penalties.

Otherwise, if an occassional minor violation occurs that is not causing any appreciable game delay, there's really no need to start invoking rules whose sole purpose is to prevent repeated, unnecessary delays.
 

Similar threads

H
Replies
8
Views
913
Hilliarddad3
H
S
Replies
17
Views
1K
SBFAMILY
S
Top