ASA Tournament 2011 ASA 16u State Tourney June 23-26

[default]

I'd like to hear the opinion of these coaches that were shut out. Maybe they are cool with the decision and we are all up in arms over nothing.

 

[default]

The old rule was that you could play but you forfeited your prior berth, this caused a lot of last minute cancellations by teams at qualifiers and then left the qualified teams with no place to play for some week ends. I would hate to be Jim and have to change the pools again after this Sunday.

 

[default]

@BPM:

Really, a consolation game is not necessary to pass down the berth. The ASA Code is very clear on how the berth is passed down. Places can be determined based on the tie-breakers and each team would, in order, be asked whether they wanted to accept the bid.

@Run26:

Well, you have two of the teams who might earn a berth this weekend pretty much "up in arms" over the fact that if we do get the berth, we can't play States. I'm suspecting that others in this weekend's Region 9 pool feel the same. As I said earlier, it may be that the Lasers Scarlet and Tidal Waves don't need any more exposure to college coaches; but I have to think that Gary Saunders won't appreciate the exclusion of his young, very talented 16u team from the college exposure and quality competition at 16u ASA States.

 

[default]

Run26: I'm not a coach but a parent of one of the younger shut out teams. I won't speak for our coaches, but as a parent, I am very disappointed in the "sudden" rule change. My DD and the rest of our girls have worked very hard to build a name for themselves and earn their bid. They have been together for 3 years now and this is the year that they have been looking forward to so they can show their stuff and be seen by college coaches. ASA knew about them being in States for months. Why the change now? Why is it different this year?

 

[default]

As a parent of one of the players affected by this i to find it disappointing that out of the blue are coach is told sorry but your team can now not attened.The team was added last Feb and now less than 2 weeks away are out.So now its scramble to try and find some games,nice.

 

[default]

Yes, nukem, I think that yours is the most aggrieved team by virtue of this ASA Ohio decision. If I am reading your team affiliation correctly, you have had a USA/ASA berth since last August and no one told you that means you couldn't play ASA States. And you certainly couldn't have read about it earlier, because none of these Local Association Ohio Rules are published anywhere.

At the very least, your team could have chosen, with sufficient advance notice, to find a showcase tournament outside of the state but within driving distance or have tried to get a berth to HoF 16u tournament which is being offered in OKC the same weekend as 16u States. There will be many college coaches attending that HoF event, for sure.

I feel really badly for your team, because you amongst all of the potentially affected teams could have planned for a good recruiting weekend if this apparent "Ohio ASA Local Exception Rule" had been published somewhere.

 

[default]

So when will we have a real, final schedule? We need to know the Thursday schedule ASAP.

 

[default]

@Dadof51:

Yes, I felt thankful that we live over 50 miles away from most of our player families when I had to send them the email this morning saying that we are back in limbo on the schedule. At this point, I'm not at all sure that parents who put in for Thursday vacation days can undo that. And vacation days are extremely precious for parents of travel ball players.

PS, we certainly aren't going to withdraw from the Region 9 qualifier this weekend, nor do I think the other teams entered in that event will withdraw. I'm hoping that once it becomes clear which team earned the USA/ASA berth there, the TD will simply enter forfeits in pool play for that team so there doesn't need to be yet another round of new 16u States pool play; actually what I really hope is that the Ohio ASA realizes they don't have any published rules creating a local exception to the National Rule that berth-holders can still compete in other National Qualifiers.

 

[default]

Local associations determine eligibility for their championships and have wide latitude in scheduling them. The ASA Code that has been cited in this thread regarding previously qualified teams and schedules does not apply to local association championships.

- The recent change to allow previously qualified teams was specific to National Qualifiers and not qualifiers in general.

- The new Friday-Sunday schedule restriction only applies to Regional Tournaments, National Qualifiers and Territorial Gold Qualifiers.

CGS is absolutely correct that local association and Region 9 regulations need to be made public.

 

[default]

So Cal Dad:

You are obviously very familiar with the ASA Code and have a talent for getting it to hang together. How do you conclude that an ASA State Tournament awarding 4 berths to USA/ASA is not a "National Qualifier". I searched the ASA Code for a definition of "National Qualifier" that would exclude a State Championship offering berths and couldn't find anything.

Also, while I acknowledge that you provided an explanation earlier this year of why pick-up player rules can be modified by Local Associations, I haven't found anything that says the 513.M rule can be modified. To the contrary, the ASA Code provides that with respect to other rules:

LEVELS OF CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY. The following are levels of championship
play:
"A. Local Association Championships. Local Associations championship play at the state or metro championship, must follow ASA Code requirements except that Local Association rules may be enacted for run ahead rules, time limits, uniforms ( except that a minimum must be shirts that are like in color and style with numbers on the back ), home run rules, stealing, metal cleats and fence distances."

I couldn't find anything in the Code that allowed the local association to change the 513.M rule relating to existing berth holders. So absent a specific ASA Code provision, how does ASA Ohio supplant the ASA Code rule on teams that hold existing berths?

Don't say this for the sheer sake of arguing; I'm just really struggling with how Ohio ASA can create a local exception on this point. As I said, I know about the Code provision that you cited regarding the rule on pick-up players prior to the local association championship, but the Code provision that I cited above seems clearly to require application of ASA Code 513.m unless I'm missing something somewhere else in the Code.

 

[default]

CGS: Yes you read my affiliation correctly and thank you for your support today and in the past. I enjoy reading your posts and opinions.

ALL: I'm not seeing any rumblings from the 12U, 14U, or 18U groups. Shouldn't this ruling cause rescheduling in their groups also? Have any of the coaches or parents from these other groups received the same notice?

 

[default]

I have been reading the Ohio ASA web page and all the new rules for this year. No where does it say anything about this. You would think if they changed the rules this year it would be on the web site.

 

[default]

CGS: Yes you read my affiliation correctly and thank you for your support today and in the past. I enjoy reading your posts and opinions.

ALL: I'm not seeing any rumblings from the 12U, 14U, or 18U groups. Shouldn't this ruling cause rescheduling in their groups also? Have any of the coaches or parents from these other groups received the same notice?

I was courious about this as well. I know there is a 10u team entered into States that already has an ASA/USA bid. Not sure if they have been told this info.

 

[default]

@SBFamily:

The only rule changes on the Ohio ASA site are changes to the ASA Rules of Play, which are uniformly applied to all ASA games in the country and don't involve team regulation such as whether a team can play ASA States. There is nothing on the Ohio ASA site that addresses any "Local Exception" provisions to the ASA Code that would call for existing berth holders to be excluded from ASA State Championships.

 

[default]

@nukem and Lionsfastpitch:

The only way that I believe teams in the other age brackets would be aware of this problem would be through reading OFC, or more specifically through reading the 16u thread. Which is a shame.

If you want an answer as to whether ASA Ohio will be applying the rule to all State Championships, send an email to the TD with a copy to Warren Jones. Most likely it will come as a surprise to the TD, but better to clear this up now than to have it become an issue right at the tournament.

As I said earlier, I'm hoping that the Ohio ASA will reverse its decision in the 16u States, but whatever happens in 16u I can't imagine it would be applied differently in the other age groups.

 

[default]

Understand. I was on the site to see if 3-1D was listed, after that conversation came up this weekend.

 

[default]

So does that mean any age group that qualified at the Dayton Metro cannot play in their respective state tournaments?

 

[default]

As I said above, this question needs to be posed to the TD in each age group. But I can't imagine any rational reason for applying the rule to 16u and not the other age groups.

 

[default]

They are keepin them out of 16u ASA States, I just received an e-mail. It says Warren Jones made it an Ohio rule

 

[default]

I have known Warren Jones for some time, since he lives in our area. I can't understand this one, but I will have to hear his side of this issue. To me it just doesn't make since. He will be at Findlay and I'm sure he will be asked to explain it.