Another Unusual Play

[HeyBlue!]

Here's a recent gem:

Bases loaded, no outs. R1 on third, R2 on second, R3 on first and B1 at the plate. B1 hits a line drive up the middle through the infield. R3 scores easily after which F7 makes a strong throw to the plate in an attempt to retire R2. The ball is just slightly off line and mishandled by F2 as she tries to make a swipe tag. (For those wondering, F2 was in legal position and not blocking the plate). As the play progresses, R2 touches the plate but then stumbles with her arms extended to brace herself and proceeds to run over F2 who has turned to retrieve the errant throw. R2 not only drives F2 to the ground (with no malicious intent) but also lands completely on top of her.

What is your call?

 

[cobb_of_fury]

As you describe it - Incidental contact "Play-On"

 

[cobb_of_fury]

As you describe it - Incidental contact "Play-On"

My only question would be - Why wasn't R2 Sliding into home with the throw coming?
She isn't required to slide but it just seems like it would have been a good idea...

 

[Louuuuu]

... because it's Homecoming season, and she ain't getting a strawberry on her leg to distract others from noticing the $500 she spend on a dress and hair.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

... because it's Homecoming season, and she ain't getting a strawberry on her leg to distract others from noticing the $500 she spend on a dress and hair.

Good point - Should have thought of that...

 

[JoeA1010]

In ASA, I know one can't interfere with a fielder who is making a play on a batted ball (as I recall), whether intentional or not, but this is an errant throw and the runner had the right to touch home and presumably continue on for however many steps her momentum took her. I would guess no call since it was a throw and catcher was not in possession of the ball, but I'm not confident in my answer.

 

[gcg3refs]

As previously stated - Incidental contact, runner had no where else to go as the errant throw took the catcher into the line of the runner

 

[HeyBlue!]

I'd like to see Bretman weigh in on this... and then I'll let you know the final outcome of this particular play.

 

[Hilliarddad3]

R-3 scored easily because r-2 was on top of her? Did she get called out due to r-2 interference or get sent back to third? Sounds like it's going to have weird ending....

 

[FastBat]

If there's a play at home, the runner should have been already in her slide, regardless of if the catcher missed the ball or not. How would she have anticipated the catcher was going to miss? Running into a fielder deliberately or not, should be avoided at all cost. I would say from about 12u and up, she would have been called out.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

BretMan what's your call on this?

 

[BretMan2]

Without actually seeing the play, my first question would be if the catcher chasing the errant throw moved suddenly and unavoidably into the path of the runner. In other words...if the catcher hadn't moved away from her initial fielding position, would there have been any contact?

Runners are required to avoid fielders who are making a play on them, but that changes once there is no play to be made and the fielder moves into the runner's path. Then the contact is the fielder's fault, not the runner's.

If that's what happened here then I don't have any rule violation by the runner- live ball, play on.

 

[HeyBlue!]

Without actually seeing the play, my first question would be if the catcher chasing the errant throw moved suddenly and unavoidably into the path of the runner. In other words...if the catcher hadn't moved away from her initial fielding position, would there have been any contact?

Runners are required to avoid fielders who are making a play on them, but that changes once there is no play to be made and the fielder moves into the runner's path. Then the contact is the fielder's fault, not the runner's.

If that's what happened here then I don't have any rule violation by the runner- live ball, play on.

Good question, Bretman.

In my judgment:

1.) The catcher pivoted and was in the process of retrieving the ball, not running in the direct path of the runner. Had the catcher retrieved the ball routinely, no further runs would have scored (short distance from plate to backstop).
2.) The runner had ample opportunity to avoid the contact by sliding, or by simply veering slightly in either direction.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I have a stupid question -
Does fetching an errant throw count (for the sake of the rule) as making a play on the ball?
Obviously the runner cant interfere with a play but once the ball is thrown past the baseman does the runner have the 'right of way'
I have seen this called both ways -

 

[BretMan2]

The only time the fielder has the right of way is if they are in the act of fielding a batted ball.

If they're going after a thrown ball, and impede the runner without possession of the ball, then it's obstruction.

 

[Bullbuck]

The only time the fielder has the right of way is if they are in the act of fielding a batted ball.

If they're going after a thrown ball, and impede the runner without possession of the ball, then it's obstruction.

How does that play out for a standard infield grounder where the throw causes the first baseman to move into the baseline between home and first to catch the ball? The runner will typically slow down to avoid contact or circle around the fielder to get to the base. I don't recall ever seeing that called as obstruction, even though it seems to fit the definition. The response you hear from the offensive coach when his runner is called "out" is "run her over next time." Should he be calling for obstruction instead?

 

[Comp]

How does that play out for a standard infield grounder where the throw causes the first baseman to move into the baseline between home and first to catch the ball? The runner will typically slow down to avoid contact or circle around the fielder to get to the base. I don't recall ever seeing that called as obstruction, even though it seems to fit the definition. The response you hear from the offensive coach when his runner is called "out" is "run her over next time." Should he be calling for obstruction instead?

Bretman already provided the answer. A fielder not fielding a batted ball or physically in possession of the ball cannot impede a runner. If F3 is pulled into the path of the batter/runner by an errant throw and causes them to slow down or deviate to avoid the fielder it should be ruled obstruction.

 

[Bullbuck]

Comp, I agree, but have you ever seen obstruction called in that situation? I haven't, which makes me wonder if there is some sort of exception to the rule.

 

[Comp]

There is no exception to the rule, and yes I have called it. If an umpire doesnt call it the offensive coach should question the calling umpire with, 1, Was F3 either fielding a batted ball or in possession of the ball? 2, Did F3's presence in the batter/runners basepath cause them to slow down, deviate path, stop etc to avoid the fielder? If the umpire answers no to 1 and yes to 2nd then you need to ask 3, Is that not the definition of obstruction? A fielder neither in possession of the ball nor fielding a batted ball that impedes or hinders a runner? If they still wont change the call you now have grounds for a protest. Their answers to questions 1 and 2 are the basis of the obstruction rule.

 

[HeyBlue!]

Good discussion everyone. This was an ASA tourney. For those curious as to the ruling, here it is:

R1 obviously scored. R2 also scored, but was then called for "interference by a retired runner". R3 was subsequently called out and the batter-runner was returned to second base.
In summary: Two runs scored, one out recorded (R2 being closest to home plate at the time dead ball/interference was declared out), and one runner returned to second base as the defense prepared to face the next batter.

ASA Rule 8, Section 7P: When, after being declared out or after scoring, an offensive player interferes with a defensive player's opportunity to make a play on another runner.
EFFECT: The ball is dead. The runner closest to home plate at the time of the interference is out. All runners not out must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.