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If any of you wanted to see bad calls...You should have been at the Gem City this weekend!!! nuff said....
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At GEM CITY: This weekend our pitcher walked a batter and before she hit first base my DD (catcher) asked for time to go talk to our pitcher. Time granted. Other coach went nuts because his runner was unable to advance to second. They had a runner at third with no outs. The runner at first could have gone to second and tried to draw a throw so they could score a run or at least get the runner to second but time called killed those ideas. Nothing ump could do once he called time that was it, play stops. We need to keep that play in the back of our mind. hehe
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Musty, that is a great play...
If the umpire don't know the rule... or has a "brain toot" ... no fault of your DD's - right?
Something like " coloring outside of the lines" come to mind in that way of thinking by your DD...
If the umpire don't know the rule... or has a "brain toot" ... no fault of your DD's - right?
Something like " coloring outside of the lines" come to mind in that way of thinking by your DD...
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We had some umps at Loudonville 16U that were awful and we had them 2 games in a row! The only call the one ump knew was "safe" even if it was an obvious out. At one point one of our girls at 3rd asked the infield ump how she could appeal a play. He looked at her and said "well just don't ask me because I wasn't paying attention"! It was amazing. Both teams in both games were complaining about these guys. It got to the point where the 3rd base coach would just look at us and say "well I guess we get that one. You guys can have the next one!"
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I'm sorry folks but after having "been around" for a while, I just don't see where loudly or violently arguing with an umpire is going to get you anywhere.
I know that they are paid, I know that you paid money to play. But for the love of Pete, it is a game. If you win, what do you get??? A piece if metal or cheap plastic. Maybe a little chest pumping.
Is a piece of cheap plastic really worth getting your blood pressure up and making a spectacle of yourself? With all of the other things going on in the world and your neighborhood, this is what you are going to stand up for and argue?
I have been there. In my younger days when I was a coach, I would argue at the drop of a hat because I wasn't going to let someone get something over on my team. Been there, done that. But what did I prove or get for doing that? Absolutely nothing.
What if during a game, the umpires were to stop the game and point out when a coach or player were to make a mistake, I know that I for one would feel pretty small. I know that I have made coaching mistakes before and I definately made them as a player.
There is a proper way to voice disapproval of a call or an umpire's performance. I just pray that when the time comes for that, I can remember not to let my emotions get the better of me and follow the correct path.
As coaches, we want parents to wait 24 hours before contacting you about any issues that arose from the past weekend. Why do you do this? You do this to allow the parents to "cool-off" and look at all of the factors. What if, when you have to disagree with an umpires call, you immediately call time, and then slowly walk to the umpire, counting to 20 as you walk. Then, by the time you get there, you have defused your emotions some and now you can present an argument based on fact and not emotion. What the heck, give it a try.
I'll get down now from my box before I fall and break my other leg.
I know that they are paid, I know that you paid money to play. But for the love of Pete, it is a game. If you win, what do you get??? A piece if metal or cheap plastic. Maybe a little chest pumping.
Is a piece of cheap plastic really worth getting your blood pressure up and making a spectacle of yourself? With all of the other things going on in the world and your neighborhood, this is what you are going to stand up for and argue?
I have been there. In my younger days when I was a coach, I would argue at the drop of a hat because I wasn't going to let someone get something over on my team. Been there, done that. But what did I prove or get for doing that? Absolutely nothing.
What if during a game, the umpires were to stop the game and point out when a coach or player were to make a mistake, I know that I for one would feel pretty small. I know that I have made coaching mistakes before and I definately made them as a player.
There is a proper way to voice disapproval of a call or an umpire's performance. I just pray that when the time comes for that, I can remember not to let my emotions get the better of me and follow the correct path.
As coaches, we want parents to wait 24 hours before contacting you about any issues that arose from the past weekend. Why do you do this? You do this to allow the parents to "cool-off" and look at all of the factors. What if, when you have to disagree with an umpires call, you immediately call time, and then slowly walk to the umpire, counting to 20 as you walk. Then, by the time you get there, you have defused your emotions some and now you can present an argument based on fact and not emotion. What the heck, give it a try.
I'll get down now from my box before I fall and break my other leg.
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I felt bad for him as he is a really good ump. See him around SW Ohio a lot. Just had a "brain toot".
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An opposing coach at the GAPSS 10u was thrown out, because he said ?your strike zone is ridiculous?. He did not scream it at all! I didn?t even here him! Asked the umpire what he said & that was it! Wow, I think if you?re wearing blue your skin should be a little thicker?
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"QUOTE"
If the catcher was able to get the "real' ball and tag the runner out...then the runner obviously had no chance of scoring anyway. So I don't really see a run as being prevented. But if that extra ball wasn't out there...would the runner have even tried to advance anyway?
The runner had no idea there were 2 balls out there...she seen the one (thrown in) 15 feet away. She never seen the ball thrown in(just the ball); she would have never attempted if she knew the ball was real close to catcher; the catcher was in-between ball and runner...that is why runner did not see it. The angle of play and how pitcher threw ball to catcher, the runner thought that is where it went. As far as me (coach) asking..I did. There was even an older gentleman I believe with ASA there riding around in a golf cart; we explained it to him and he said whatever the umps say. Umpires said it was a live ball play stands. I'm telling do I think they (opposing team) did this on purpose.....absolutely not; at least I want to believe they didn't...I didn't even see it thrown in. As the play was at being made at home; I thought what the heck is the umpire leaving the extra ball in play for; then to find out it was tossed in, man that stinks.
If the catcher was able to get the "real' ball and tag the runner out...then the runner obviously had no chance of scoring anyway. So I don't really see a run as being prevented. But if that extra ball wasn't out there...would the runner have even tried to advance anyway?
The runner had no idea there were 2 balls out there...she seen the one (thrown in) 15 feet away. She never seen the ball thrown in(just the ball); she would have never attempted if she knew the ball was real close to catcher; the catcher was in-between ball and runner...that is why runner did not see it. The angle of play and how pitcher threw ball to catcher, the runner thought that is where it went. As far as me (coach) asking..I did. There was even an older gentleman I believe with ASA there riding around in a golf cart; we explained it to him and he said whatever the umps say. Umpires said it was a live ball play stands. I'm telling do I think they (opposing team) did this on purpose.....absolutely not; at least I want to believe they didn't...I didn't even see it thrown in. As the play was at being made at home; I thought what the heck is the umpire leaving the extra ball in play for; then to find out it was tossed in, man that stinks.
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Where do you get the idea that the volume of a comment has anything to do with the comment being appropriate or the penalty involved? All that matters is that the comment was directed at the umpire and the umpire heard it.
Saying something like this is "toss-worthy" on two counts. One, it is arguing balls and strikes. Two, it is also a personal comment directed at the umpire's ability.
I couldn't fault an umpire if he gave a warning here. But I wouldn't necessarily fault him if he ejected the coach, either. It's his call and there really isn't any place in the game for comments like this. If you let this one slide...what next? If the coach thinks this is acceptable, what is to prevent it from escalating from there.
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I just don't think you are correct!
I agree that a warning would have been in order. The coach wasn't on him at all up until that point. It was over kill for the comment & situation.
I agree that a warning would have been in order. The coach wasn't on him at all up until that point. It was over kill for the comment & situation.
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Bretman,
Had this happen to me. Son batting 7th and was in dugout, next to backstop, which was where I was sitting.
As 3rd batter was up in the 2 inning, Blue called strike, I turned and told my son that the Blue was favoring the low, just below the knees, outside for strikes since the game started.
I told him Blue was wrong, but I wanted him to adjust to Blue's strike zone.
STOP THE GAME!!!!
Blue said I was arguing his calls and I was asked to leave the field of play. I had to sit in the parking lot that night..
I never said a word to Blue, before, during, or after, He took it upon himself to hear me talking to my son.
Another time, My daughter wanted to pitch in a 12U game, She was 11.
She never pitched before but coached put her in the middle of game.
She was pitching, and Blue was calling strikes on a ball the was thrown like slow pitch, High arch and ball falling at catcher glove.
I yelled at my daughter from the stands that wasn't a strike, it was a ball. I wanted her to learn to throw right, and that Blue was mis-leading her.
Guess what, I was asked to leave again.
True stories!!!!
Had this happen to me. Son batting 7th and was in dugout, next to backstop, which was where I was sitting.
As 3rd batter was up in the 2 inning, Blue called strike, I turned and told my son that the Blue was favoring the low, just below the knees, outside for strikes since the game started.
I told him Blue was wrong, but I wanted him to adjust to Blue's strike zone.
STOP THE GAME!!!!
Blue said I was arguing his calls and I was asked to leave the field of play. I had to sit in the parking lot that night..
I never said a word to Blue, before, during, or after, He took it upon himself to hear me talking to my son.
Another time, My daughter wanted to pitch in a 12U game, She was 11.
She never pitched before but coached put her in the middle of game.
She was pitching, and Blue was calling strikes on a ball the was thrown like slow pitch, High arch and ball falling at catcher glove.
I yelled at my daughter from the stands that wasn't a strike, it was a ball. I wanted her to learn to throw right, and that Blue was mis-leading her.
Guess what, I was asked to leave again.
True stories!!!!
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Amen!
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For the love of Pete people, quit focusing on the cheap piece of plastic. It is never about the trophy, it is about the memory. The kids memories not the parent's. I can't remember what one trophy looked liked from my youth but I can tell you with vivid detail about some game winning moments. Is a piece of cheap plastic really worth getting your blood pressure up and making a spectacle of yourself? NO, NEVER. Is getting worked upped over cheating your kid out of a life long memory? You tell me. There is nothing wrong with questioning a call. You just got do it right so their memory won't be one of you leaving the fields for the parking lot.
Now with that being said, I do agree with pretty much everything you said. I just get irked a bit when people belittle winning as just a piece of plastic. It's important for the kids to have sense of accomplishment that they persevered and the work paid off. The plastic is just a "symbol" of their accomplishment.
Next up on the soapbox........?
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Great post! I never argue balls and strikes or safe or out calls... If for some reason a rule is called that a disagree with I will get out the book do a quick check and go from there! Won a few lost a few but never got bent about it in front of my players. (parents do a great job of that) My biggest problem with blue is making calls while out of position. Seems at upper ages and with the age of blue not getting any younger, more and more of them are making judgment calls from to far away from the play being made. JMHO
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I think the majority of "bad umpire" arguments are more a result of lack of rule knowledge than just bad judgement calls. I really believe the OFC has played a major role in this. Not a bad role, but it has educated a great number of people on rules via bretman questions, "case studies", etc. Every weekend there are more than a few threads that start out like, "Had this situation this weekend, whats the correct call...." After multiple seasons of these "situations" OFCers are much more educated about rules. I had one aunt this year holler out the correct rule to another coach who was arguing for one of bretman's so called myth rules. We weren't even playing yet, we were the next game. She would have never known that if the OFC hadn't existed.
I think that the beloved and cherished aunt would have chosen to not speak up if she had known how insanely crazy that out-of-state team was going to get when they lost later ;&;&
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The two examples you gave are, to me, not something I would react to. Chatter from the bench area that isn't specifically aimed at the umpire should usually be ignored. Comments from the stands, outside of the playing field, get double-ignored! Personally, I would not even address either of those.
But a comment specifically spoken to the umpire, arguing balls and strikes, and criticizing his ability...you are on thin ice. I'm usually lenient enough to give a warning. Others might eject and the ejection would be warranted.
By the way...if the coach said this to the umpire and you "didn't even hear it", how do you know for sure that he hadn't said anything else like this before that?
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Thats just a matter of time.
By 3rd inning or before, I would be able to tell, That the coach has been there before with that umpire in game.
Coaches always make it a point to say OH NO, not him again. Happens all the time. Same thing said by Blue.
I happen to know appox. 8-9 umpires, and 2 of them are very close, and good friends of mine.
I go to many games that my daughter doesn't even go to, I'm there as a guest of the umpire. I see alot of games, April thur July.
Don't get me wrong, I respect Blue alot more than the coaches out there today.
But I will say this also, Blue today isn't what it was 5-6 years ago.
You Bretman, We need more of....
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Yep, I thought Scott Herman and the PA coach was going to go a few rounds. Good thing there was a fence between them.
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The umpiring at two of the Sunday games at GAPSS was terrible, and we won our game. I felt bad for the Cincy Doom 18U Gold pitcher and all of the pitchers in that game. The worst ball and strike umpire I have seen in my life. The Doom coach said he knew what the umpire was like and that the umpire is always consistantly that bad. He was terrible in the Power vs Ohio Lady Lasers game before ours.
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Ohio Ice- Can an umpire tell a coach his coaching is ridiculous? I coach at a pretty good high school and coached travel for 8 years ( both DD are out of college), now Umpiring last 4 years, I have seen more 0-2 count doubles, triples, and home runs this year. Two strike bunts and 16&18u coaches ask about flex and DP than ever.But It's allways the Bad Umpiring.I sure have a different outlook now about Umpires.Umpires are like coaches,some good and some bad.
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