Can a ump change his call?

[freddieball]

At our 8th grade game on this past Friday one of our girls hits a bomb over a 200ft fence for her first home run with fences this far. The fence was also almost 5 feet tall in the outfield with the yellow protector on the top. The ground was soft and the balls first bounce was less than 1ft high due to the soft ground. The ump behind home plate was the only ump, and he did not move a inch. He calls it a double as the girl is climbing over the fence to get the ball. He said it bounced over. It was clearly over the fence, the ball could not bounce over a 5ft fence in damp conditions. Even with the other coach, other team parents, and even the girl in left field that had the ball go over her head said it was over and the ump still said to him it looked like it bounced and she had to stay at second because he can not change his call. Can he change it? Everyone felt bad for the girl. The sportsmanship was good, all the other players and coaches congratulated her, but running the bases as a HR surely means something to these girls.

 

[BretMan2]

Can an umpire change his call? Yes!

Should he? Maybe. In some cases he probably should. But, unfortunately, in this case I would say no.

It's fairly common for an umpire to change his call on some plays, like a swipe tag or pulled foot at first base. Maybe his view was blocked, or he had a bad angle and couldn't see part of the play. We've all seen plays like this where, after the call has been made, the umpire consults with his partner who may have had a better view.

If the other umpire has sufficient information to convince the calling umpire he missed something, then he is expected to reverse his call. This is standard operating procedure. It's also kind of a moot point when there's only one umpire.

Nothing says that an umpire can't reverse his call on his own if, for some reason, he realizes that the first call he made was wrong. But this should be an exceedingly rare instance. The premise at work is that you call what you see, and if that's how you saw it then that's how you call it.

On the play in question, if the umpire truly believes that he saw the ball bounce over the fence, then he should call the two-base award. Right or wrong, I'd call that being honest and doing the job you're being paid to do. If that's what you really think you saw, then that's what you have to call. You shouldn't change that because of anything a coach, player, or fan tells you.

Having said that...instead of standing behind the plate like you're wearing cement tennis shoes, a plate umpire should be out at least as far as the pitching circle to get a better view on fly balls to the outfield. Sometimes you might make a bad call because it's hard to cover everything 100% on the field. But sometimes a bad call is the result of bad mechanics. It sounds like that may have been the case here.

Suppose this call was reversed. I hope that the umpire likes filling out paperwork, because there's a good chance he will have to after he ejects the defensive coach!

 

[Fastball19]

I don't see why they could not have changed it.
[video=youtube;ARNEwwuADeA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARNEwwuADeA[/video]

 

[Captain_Thunder]

In the video above, the Ump calls Safe. Looks like correct call to me! And sure close enough to be a judgment either way. Don't think this is a good video to use for a reason to reverse a call...........

 

[Fastball19]

In the video above, the umpire called safe which is the correct call. The coach on the other team yelled that is a force out and the umpire said oh yea you are right she is out even though she beat the throw. So she was called out. So in this instance he changed a correct call to a wrong call. So they certainly should be able to correct a wrong call right!

 

[snoman76]

Runner on 3, 2-1 count on batter 2 outs. Pitch comes in umpire calls strike 3 .... at the same time runner on 3 breaks for home and gets in easily because defense stopped playing due to umpire calling strike 3 making it the 3rd out. Umpire realizes it was only strike 2, makes the correction and allows the run to count. Coach goes out to discuss the call arguing that it should be a strike and a dead ball due to umpire error a runner return to 3rd. Blue said "I got it wrong but Im not changing the call"

 

[Captain_Thunder]

In the video above, the umpire called safe which is the correct call. The coach on the other team yelled that is a force out and the umpire said oh yea you are right she is out even though she beat the throw. So she was called out. So in this instance he changed a correct call to a wrong call. So they certainly should be able to correct a wrong call right!

Just bad judgment by the Ump. If once he realized it was a force out & he felt the throw beat the runner - then he did what he was suppose to do....even though it was bad judgment. In the OP case, if he felt it hit the yellow top & went over - then realized it was still a HR - that is one thing. But if the guy thought it hit the ground & bounced over - he was correct. No matter how bad the call.........

 

[SOFTBALLS14]

My only thought is ..GET IT RIGHT!......No matter if you have to change your call or not GET IT RIGHT!....in the HR situation being the only umpire doesn't help....
I get it but when you see a girl climbing the fence to get it and other players see it go over GET IT RIGHT..
Yes mechanics play a part but no one man umpire can run out to the outfield!! READ THE OTHER PLAYERS OUT THERE IN THE FIELD!
Plus take a few extra seconds to make the call so you can GET IT RIGHT.....(MOST UMPIRES DONT TAKE THE EXTRA SECOND TO MAKE A CALL) ITS AN INSTANT CALL!
Ultimately its about getting it right and if its RIGHT you will get less people yelling at you. Cause as BERNIE HARRIS taught me as an Umpire your only going to make 50% of the people happy. But he always said eat the chocolate call (whistle) and GET IT RIGHT!!! HR !!

 

[BretMan2]

"Get it right" is always a good goal. And, sure, timing is an important aspect of most all calls an umpire makes. But on this one, if you really, truly, honestly thought you saw the ball bounce over the fence, I'm not sure what taking a few extra seconds is going to accomplish.

I had one like this a couple of years ago. High fly ball to right center field and F8 goes back to the temporary fence. The ball comes straight down just as the fielder crashes into the fence, knocking it over. It's just an explosion of fielder, ball, and fence all in one spot.

To me, it looked like the ball bounced over. I called dead ball and awarded second base. The offensive coach made quite an argument that the ball went over on the fly. Sorry, that's not what I had and that's my honest judgment.

As I'm walking to my car after the game, some random parent stops me and tells me that she was sitting right by the fence and the ball definitely went over on the fly. Then she demeaned me for "stealing" a home run from the player.

I get away from her and get another few feet toward my car when a guy stops me. This guy says that he was sitting right by the fence and that he saw the ball bounce over and that I had made the absolutely correct call!

Now, the second guy was obviously right... ...but this does serve to illustrate that two people can watch the same thing, yet come away with two completely different impressions of what happened. It also illustrates why an umpire should NEVER change his call just because a player, coach, or fan tells him they saw something different.

Sure, get it right. But you can only call what you see.

 

[JoeA1010]

Runner on 3, 2-1 count on batter 2 outs. Pitch comes in umpire calls strike 3 .... at the same time runner on 3 breaks for home and gets in easily because defense stopped playing due to umpire calling strike 3 making it the 3rd out. Umpire realizes it was only strike 2, makes the correction and allows the run to count. Coach goes out to discuss the call arguing that it should be a strike and a dead ball due to umpire error a runner return to 3rd. Blue said "I got it wrong but Im not changing the call"

In this one, the umpire can and should put the runner back at third. If an umpire's mistaken call, such as this one, puts a runner in jeopardy, then the umpires can rectify the situation. What the umpire can't do is go back after another pitch and then change a call. Amazingly, we had this happen to us twice this year, at the college level no less.

 

[Chad Strahler]

On close plays at bases this year. Every single time I have asked the blue if we could ask the othe blue, their response has been. It's a judgement call so I can't check with them. Was told once on a literally one step past the bag at first scenario after I politely went to her and didn't holler across the field that she was t allowed to change her call. I said sure you can if he got a better look because she was very clearly safe... After they confirred all he said was...that's her call.

 

[BretMan2]

If the only reason you're asking the umpire to check with his partner is that it was a close play, you didn't like the outcome, and you're fishing for a second opinion, then the umpire shouldn't check with his partner.

If that sounds a little too harsh, let me explain. If an umpire is in position for the play, sees the elements he needs to see- the base, the ball, the runner, and the fielder- then it's his call to make. That's the job he's being paid to do! If he saw what he was supposed to see and is sure of what he saw, then there's not really any reason to get a second opinion. Sure, you can ask him to get help, but he's under no obligation to do so.

On the other hand, suppose there was something he didn't see. Sometimes you can get caught out of position and not get the best look at the play. Sometimes players block your view. Sometimes a throw is off line and there's a swipe tag that's on the opposite side of the player from where you were set up. Sometimes fielders pull their foot off the base and if they're pulled straight at you their foot is hidden. Sometimes a fielder loses the ball on a tag and the umpire misses it.

If any of those happen, any of which is beyond the scope of a routine play, then by all means you should ask. And if the umpire knows he might of missed something, then by all means he should consult with his partner. But again, he's under no obligation to. If you know you missed something, to me it be becomes a question of integrity. You should try to get it right.

Even if he does get with his partner, he's not under any obligation to change his call. And it's always possible that his partner doesn't have any info that will help, if he had other runners to watch on the play. At least you're exhausting every avenue you have to try and get the call reversed.

The two biggest problems I see with getting help is that some umpires are just too hard-headed to admit they missed something and refuse to get help, and some coaches think that they should get help on every close play that doesn't go their way. The reality is somewhere in the middle. There are times when an umpire definitely should get help, and there are times when he definitely shouldn't.