College Program Reviews

[Mad Hornet]

Something I mentioned here before but never got any traction but can this forum have a section for "College Program Reviews"? I know people say to do their research before you commit but the truth about a program is very difficult to find out until a player is actually THERE.

Camps, visits, official visits, often time everyone is putting on a show about how positive the environment is, "everybody just loves it here!" Fake, phoney, BS. I can look up a kitchen appliance and read hundreds of reviews for something that costs under a hundred bucks. But college program? Unless they make national news, no one really knows, until they get there.

I say this as a coach who has helped a lot of players get into all levels of programs and sadly more of them are unhappy than happy with where they ended up, at least from a softball perspective. They put in all this work and go all over hell's half acre trying to get recruited only to get on campus and find out coach is a complete psycho, liar, manipulator, or worse. Not always, but enough times it merits a review program. And maybe if college programs know these reviews are out there, they will try to get better. Thoughts?

 

[wannaplaysb]

A slippery slope...my daughter is in NY quarantined again. While all of her teammates and old counterparts are competing.

 

[yocoach]

I know how you feel. DD's coach, trainer and the college president all discussed it and put the entire team in a 10 day quarantine due to the Freshman not staying away from the college parties, socializing, drinking and bringing covid back to team practices. Coach had to impose a "DRY" season and postpone their first 2 games that were scheduled to be played next weekend.

As for reviews, I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure how many responses, or at least honest subjective responses you're going to get. Besides the fallout from the responses that could possibly be imposed if the poster was found out, a player should be picking the school to play for not the coach. The average tenure of a Coach across the NCAA is something like an average of 1.8 years before they move on to another school.

Perfect example: DD's Junior HS year, she was contacted by a college in WV. The coach was just hired in December, was out at the Winter showcasing events and saw DD at the Queen of Diamond's North. After the meet and greet, campus tour, and sales pitch, she made DD an offer. The school campus was small but DD liked it and it made the top 5. By July, the coach took another job at a new college. Less than a year. Did we take it off the table because the coach left? Even though the new coach wouldn't have had to honor the offer until the NLI was signed, the answer is no.

We always told DD to look at a college as though she weren't playing ball there and ask herself if she could see herself going there for 4 years. Only 1 in 10 student-athletes actually finish all 4 years of athletic commitment. Might as well like where they end up when they leave the SB program.

 

[DanMaz]

gotta take the 5th... if there was an anonymous way to post, then you might get some takers.... I will take the 5th for now.

 

[Mad Hornet]

I think the reviews could only come from players who have graduated or otherwise moved on from the program. At least that way you are getting the full scope of the experience. And we would want the good as well as the bad. Maybe put up the section and see if anyone takes advantage of it?

 

[CARDS]

Honestly most College programs (like HS) have a lot of turnover in coaching.

Some do a good job of keeping a head coach but the make up the staff generally will change every couple years outside of some of your big D1 power conferences but, they too have a coach or two move annually and a lot of these coaches are also their recruiters.

The key is for parents/players to try to find teams that have established college coaching contacts. (Some HS coaches actually have a better network than travel team / college exposure coaches) to help them.

Most ladies will find a school within 4 hours of their home so players/parents can also swing out to catch games/practices and see how things are run at schools they have a genuine interest in. This can accomplish a couple things, you can see the head coach in action, you can see the talent on the field and talent on the bench. Maybe talk to parents of players in attendance.

Over the years I have seen a lot of ladies that went to a program only to sit or, be moved into another position. A lot of the time the player did not know the make up of the team or ask the proper questions in fear it would make them look soft or not a team player.

When we went through the process 12 years ago my DD researched schools that fit her major interest then broke down the softball and golf programs between the universities. At QDS, QDN and showcases with schools outside of her window / mileage she would listen to coaches and there were several that made offers or promises that I knew was BS just to try to get her to go there.

Key things are: Know what you want to major in...(Sports rehab is not nursing and basket weaving is not engineering) Know your DDs abilities and be realistic about the opportunities....Know who you are talking too.... A program recruiter will tell you mostly what you want to hear.
Be weary of the coach that only seen you play a few innings. The programs truly interested will see the lady in several contest and ask you to visit for workouts or camps. (Be aware also when being asked to attend a camp it could also be for numbers and not because they have an interest).
There are NCAA and recruiting sites that list or rank programs and schools. These are also a good resource to check out.

In reality though, you can do your homework and due diligence to find the right spot and it still does not work out. I was at a coaches clinic back in 2008 where the discussion was the movement in committed players. At that time women athletes doubled the amount of male athletes that move schools or did not fulfill their program commitment at all levels of play. It will be interesting the next few years on the impact male athletes playing women's sports will have from interest to opportunities.

 

[Mad Hornet]

It will be interesting the next few years on the impact male athletes playing women's sports will have from interest to opportunities.

And that is an absolute abomination that must be stopped.

 

[daboss]

Honestly most College programs (like HS) have a lot of turnover in coaching.

Some do a good job of keeping a head coach but the make up the staff generally will change every couple years outside of some of your big D1 power conferences but, they too have a coach or two move annually and a lot of these coaches are also their recruiters.

The key is for parents/players to try to find teams that have established college coaching contacts. (Some HS coaches actually have a better network than travel team / college exposure coaches) to help them.

Most ladies will find a school within 4 hours of their home so players/parents can also swing out to catch games/practices and see how things are run at schools they have a genuine interest in. This can accomplish a couple things, you can see the head coach in action, you can see the talent on the field and talent on the bench. Maybe talk to parents of players in attendance.

Over the years I have seen a lot of ladies that went to a program only to sit or, be moved into another position. A lot of the time the player did not know the make up of the team or ask the proper questions in fear it would make them look soft or not a team player.

When we went through the process 12 years ago my DD researched schools that fit her major interest then broke down the softball and golf programs between the universities. At QDS, QDN and showcases with schools outside of her window / mileage she would listen to coaches and there were several that made offers or promises that I knew was BS just to try to get her to go there.

Key things are: Know what you want to major in...(Sports rehab is not nursing and basket weaving is not engineering) Know your DDs abilities and be realistic about the opportunities....Know who you are talking too.... A program recruiter will tell you mostly what you want to hear.
Be weary of the coach that only seen you play a few innings. The programs truly interested will see the lady in several contest and ask you to visit for workouts or camps. (Be aware also when being asked to attend a camp it could also be for numbers and not because they have an interest).
There are NCAA and recruiting sites that list or rank programs and schools. These are also a good resource to check out.

In reality though, you can do your homework and due diligence to find the right spot and it still does not work out. I was at a coaches clinic back in 2008 where the discussion was the movement in committed players. At that time women athletes doubled the amount of male athletes that move schools or did not fulfill their program commitment at all levels of play. It will be interesting the next few years on the impact male athletes playing women's sports will have from interest to opportunities.

Great post on the subject! Thank you. I really enjoyed reading.

 

[tjsmize3]

We always told DD to look at a college as though she weren't playing ball there and ask herself if she could see herself going there for 4 years. Only 1 in 10 student-athletes actually finish all 4 years of athletic commitment. Might as well like where they end up when they leave the SB program.

Once upon a time I would have said this exact same thing... In fact, I did... a lot and to my own kids. My oldest daughter had a story that went like this: Earned starting spot as a freshman for mid-major program... played for VERY stressful and young coach who was fired after DD's 1st season (DD was miserable even though happy with playing time), DD has major injury in fall of sophomore season and NEVER gets position back with new coach. DD reassesses, thinks about leaving, talks to new coach, decides to stay, only plays as a role player in last 2 seasons, new coach loves her guts, gives her full ride!?!?
When I look back at that experience, both myself and my daughter were all over the place emotionally those 4 undergraduate years with softball. When we talk about it now there is a lot of pride in what she was able to accomplish given how the game changed on her in a hurry. BUT, what ACTUALLY happened during those 4 years was NOTHING like what we THOUGHT would happen going into things as a freshman. We had prepared for a completely different script and the lessons and experiences that life threw at her during those 4 years was nothing like what we thought we were signing on for. In the end, however, the experience turned out to be mostly positive and to this day SHE is happy her decision to stick things out with softball and the school she started at from day one.
And while with her story it would be tempting to try to tell everyone else... relax, stick it out for all 4 yrs, great things will happen... it doesn't always work that way.
Going to college and playing softball is a lot like trying to predict the stock market or the weather. You can put a lot of time and effort into research and planning for those things but they are VERY, VERY RANDOM processes... especially at lower level softball programs where there are many coaches trying to build a stable program all mixed with coaches that are trying to move on and climb the ladder, as well as coaches that flat out should not be coaching. What's also important to keep in mind is that you have a mix of players in all 3 categories as well and that sometimes makes for a very rocky road when it all comes together to make a softball season.
My best advice for what it's worth: Absolutely do your research into individual schools and programs so that you and your daughter can make the best choice for what things appear to be AT THAT TIME. However, DO NOT assume your research is going to predict accurately what your daughter is going to experience once she gets to school. Sometimes knowing this ahead of time can help you make even better decisions and come up with a solid game plan so that if you do need to move on to a "plan B" you can do it smoothly. Maybe the best lesson isn't to "stick it out," maybe it's to teach them they can and will ADAPT to ANYTHING. Sometimes, plan B turns out to be the gem! I would never try to predict what a college student athlete's experience is going to look like 4-6 years down the road anymore than I would try to predict the weather 4-6 weeks out. Again, just my experiences and opinion for what it's worth.

 

[yocoach]

Once upon a time I would have said this exact same thing... In fact, I did... a lot and to my own kids. My oldest daughter had a story that went like this: Earned starting spot as a freshman for mid-major program... played for VERY stressful and young coach who was fired after DD's 1st season (DD was miserable even though happy with playing time), DD has major injury in fall of sophomore season and NEVER gets position back with new coach. DD reassesses, thinks about leaving, talks to new coach, decides to stay, only plays as a role player in last 2 seasons, new coach loves her guts, gives her full ride!?!?
When I look back at that experience, both myself and my daughter were all over the place emotionally those 4 undergraduate years with softball. When we talk about it now there is a lot of pride in what she was able to accomplish given how the game changed on her in a hurry. BUT, what ACTUALLY happened during those 4 years was NOTHING like what we THOUGHT would happen going into things as a freshman. We had prepared for a completely different script and the lessons and experiences that life threw at her during those 4 years was nothing like what we thought we were signing on for. In the end, however, the experience turned out to be mostly positive and to this day SHE is happy her decision to stick things out with softball and the school she started at from day one.
And while with her story it would be tempting to try to tell everyone else... relax, stick it out for all 4 yrs, great things will happen... it doesn't always work that way.
Going to college and playing softball is a lot like trying to predict the stock market or the weather. You can put a lot of time and effort into research and planning for those things but they are VERY, VERY RANDOM processes... especially at lower level softball programs where there are many coaches trying to build a stable program all mixed with coaches that are trying to move on and climb the ladder, as well as coaches that flat out should not be coaching. What's also important to keep in mind is that you have a mix of players in all 3 categories as well and that sometimes makes for a very rocky road when it all comes together to make a softball season.
My best advice for what it's worth: Absolutely do your research into individual schools and programs so that you and your daughter can make the best choice for what things appear to be AT THAT TIME. However, DO NOT assume your research is going to predict accurately what your daughter is going to experience once she gets to school. Sometimes knowing this ahead of time can help you make even better decisions and come up with a solid game plan so that if you do need to move on to a "plan B" you can do it smoothly. Maybe the best lesson isn't to "stick it out," maybe it's to teach them they can and will ADAPT to ANYTHING. Sometimes, plan B turns out to be the gem! I would never try to predict what a college student athlete's experience is going to look like 4-6 years down the road anymore than I would try to predict the weather 4-6 weeks out. Again, just my experiences and opinion for what it's worth.

I appreciate you sharing this with us. However, I'm not implying anyone should not fulfill their commitment. I was simply stating that a vast majority of student-athletes do not for a myriad of reasons. These can include things like lack of time management skills and deciding to put their studies first, burnout, career ending injury, not being able to handle being a 3 year bench (as an example) or role player after being a star on their TB/HS team, wanting to be a nurse/teacher/engineer/medical field etc. and simply not having the time due to labs/clinics/working hospital shifts etc. and a slew of others simply because they chose the wrong athletic program. You nailed it on the head when you said do your due diligence, expect everything to possibly change and be willing to adapt.

The other point I was trying to make was to choose a college that they can enjoy college life if they end up, for whatever reason, leaving the program. Also, I would like to say that I recommend choosing a college and program that they want to attend that is affordable to them even without the athletic money. Most athletic scholarships (except the major D1 P5 schools as far as I know) are renewed year to year. If they have a career ending injury or end up leaving the program for another reason and can no longer afford to go there due to them not receiving the AS money, that would suck IMO.