Does the Sportsmanship Statement Apply to Coaches??

coachjwb

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Great post, Fairman ... and it shows a perfect example of what I was talking about in mine for those who say "figure out how to make your team better so we don't beat you so bad". Most coaches do take the foot off of the gas at some point ... but many of these a lot later and less than they should ...
 

Irish196

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I think almost everyone agrees at some point the opposing coach should put on the breaks a bit. I think some of us were just trying to help give thoughts on how to make things better when the coaches don't stop the "slaughter".

If it is truly that humiliating to the girls and they are really just learning the game, can't you make them a JV team and play other teams that are at a more comparable level?
 
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CARDS

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Unfortunately there are also parents involved on the other side that can influence a coaches decision. (Sometimes those parents are the coach).
This happened during one of our HS seasons, little Suzie was a stud pitcher and was working for the league lead in strike outs, Ws, ERA, WHIP she could also crush the ball.

The coach did not pitch her vs. four weak teams during the first two weeks of the season where she could rack up numbers. The coach also sat a couple key starters that were leaders on offense. All games were won but the team played down to their competition and the games were much closer than they should have been.

The other teams in the league pitched and played their studs "every game" some, did make changes in the fifth inning after the run rule was in hand. If no run rule but a good lead, the starters played the whole contest. These teams pounded these weaker teams and their ladies built numbers that made the state record book.
The pitchers dad called a meeting with the AD and the coach. (This coach was young late 20s but she was a good coach with a big heart for the kids). To make a long story short after the meeting the coach played every game to win and did not let up. Naturally; this change in philosophy now had her at odds with three of four parents that seen their DDs contributions drop to pinch running maybe a defensive change in the last inning or two but it did result in a sweet 16 D1 run.

I also know of a small rural program in 2011 that was loaded in talent and had a strong coach. They would score as many as they could while their pitcher (one of the tops in the state)mowed down hitters on there playoff run. This teams coach told the other pitcher she needed to learn to play first base because his DD was getting every inning of every game on her quest for the state record book. (She made it).
These are just a couple examples, Look at some of the state records in one sided routs. 3 hits in an inning, 8 hits in a game, 13RBI in a game, 21Ks in a game...Almost all of these numbers were not put up vs. good competition and honestly most were not even close games when you look at the box scores for those that keep them.
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/records/sbrecrd.htm#HI

Situations like what the OP is facing I see down here in SW Ohio as well. We have over 20 programs that cannot field a competitive fastpitch program that gets routed in just about every game.
These schools need to have a slow pitch option. Some of these teams do not even have windmill pitching, their lady will just cock back the arm take a step forward and let it go arch and all.....
So...The only bright spot may be that your team is helping others make it to the record books....
 
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MD 20/20

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I don't think travel vs HS ball are the same conversation. All travel ball teams are there to compete and "should" know the level of competition at nearly to all of the tournaments they enter. If you show up for a high-level tournament with a sub-par team, you get what you came for. I have many times taken beatings and I have given my share as well. But with HS ball, we are really hearing one side. I'm not saying Fairman doesn't have his gripe, but the teams that they are playing....What is their schedule that week? with rain are they playing everyday? What's their pitching depth like? Is it getting near tournament time? My opinion with HS baseball/softball was and will continue to be this...Go get your run-rule, and a sufficient extra number of runs that you feel you cannot give up. Then and only then can you start to let off. HS ball is what you have on your roster though. It's been said before me that lopsided scoreboards can turn on an instant. Additionally, bench players, when given the opportunity to play do not want to "underperform" because their opponent isn't up to task. It's a fine line and depending on coaches, neither is the way to go, or either is the way to go...
 

wow

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I don't think travel vs HS ball are the same conversation..


This is correct in many cases. However there are about 15-20% of HS who are very high level. Funny thing is of that group, 95% of those starting 9.players are travel kids.
 

CARDS

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This is correct in many cases. However there are about 15-20% of HS who are very high level. Funny thing is of that group, 95% of those starting 9.players are travel kids.

I agree the better programs do have a lot of travel players on them. Not sure about the 20% number though playing at a "very high level". If so there would be a whole lot of different names consistently deep in the playoffs final 8 and lower...
In SW Ohio I would only count Mason and Lebanon as "very high level".....more at a high level then very high, The vast majority of HS teams are average to less than average of a 14UA travel team.
 
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tjsmize3

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I agree the better programs do have a lot of travel players on them. Not sure about the 20% number though playing at a "very high level". If so there would be a whole lot of different names consistently deep in the playoffs final 8 and lower...
In SW Ohio I would only count Mason and Lebanon as "very high level".....more at a high level then very high, The vast majority of HS teams are average to less than average of a 14UA travel team.

Maybe 1 or 2 at most in the entire state are playing at a "very high-level." Even those teams with a few very high-level players would have difficulty beating a top-level 14u team. The one advantage some of these teams would have though is if they have a next-level type senior pitcher. That can certainly quiet down a team full of 8th and 9th grade bats in a hurry. Would love for my girls to get a chance to face Madi McCrady, just not sure the outcome would be all that pretty for us!
 

wow

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I agree the better programs do have a lot of travel players on them. Not sure about the 20% number though playing at a "very high level". If so there would be a whole lot of different names consistently deep in the playoffs final 8 and lower...
In SW Ohio I would only count Mason and Lebanon as "very high level".....more at a high level then very high, The vast majority of HS teams are average to less than average of a 14UA travel team.

The final 16 will be set this weekend. I bet 95% of the kids left, in the top 9 are all travel kids. All the pitchers will certainly be. Of those top 16 starting pitchers how many are going D1? My only point was the percentages are very low as a percent of the total HS teams, however much higher in the top tier of HS programs.

As Brentman put in another thread. Unless we poll every team its a made up percentage that is 100% incorrect.
 

DJB11

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Maybe 1 or 2 at most in the entire state are playing at a "very high-level." Even those teams with a few very high-level players would have difficulty beating a top-level 14u team. The one advantage some of these teams would have though is if they have a next-level type senior pitcher. That can certainly quiet down a team full of 8th and 9th grade bats in a hurry. Would love for my girls to get a chance to face Madi McCrady, just not sure the outcome would be all that pretty for us!

I would mostly agree that a team with "a few very high-level travel players" would have difficulty beating a top-level 14u team. It depends somewhat on the talent level of other 5-6 players. I coach a high level 18u team and "think" I remember the 14u level fairly well. Your qualification on the pitcher is definitely accurate, but an older H.S. team with 4 high-level players and 5 solid players would challenge most 14u teams. Also, there are definitely more than 1 or 2 Teams playing at a high level right now. Walsh, Mason, Lakota West, Lebanon, Milford, Hebron Lakewood, and Greenville are just a few that I specifically know. I am sure there are several that I do not follow. The first point on 14u Teams is more opinion-based, but the second point on teams playing at a high level is supported by the play of those teams.
 

wow

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I would mostly agree that a team with "a few very high-level travel players" would have difficulty beating a top-level 14u team. It depends somewhat on the talent level of other 5-6 players. I coach a high level 18u team and "think" I remember the 14u level fairly well. Your qualification on the pitcher is definitely accurate, but an older H.S. team with 4 high-level players and 5 solid players would challenge most 14u teams. Also, there are definitely more than 1 or 2 Teams playing at a high level right now. Walsh, Mason, Lakota West, Lebanon, Milford, Hebron Lakewood, and Greenville are just a few that I specifically know. I am sure there are several that I do not follow. The first point on 14u Teams is more opinion-based, but the second point on teams playing at a high level is supported by the play of those teams.

Not sure you can replace 4 years of experience at a 14U high level team to compete with 18 yr old kids. Really hard to compare the two different classes. However in HS, as stated in prior posts, its simply runs the gauntlets as far as talent. Its like comparing OSU and the CLE Clowns (browns). Could OSU beat a pro team who is 1-15? Some say so. In reality is like some weird sport science simulation. On paper its possible, but there are many unknowns, with emotional fortitude a immeasurable factor.

Talent level I agree to a point, however from a physical and emotionally point it would be more difficult to substantiate.
 

tjsmize3

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... but an older H.S. team with 4 high-level players and 5 solid players would challenge most 14u teams. Also, there are definitely more than 1 or 2 Teams playing at a high level right now. Walsh, Mason, Lakota West, Lebanon, Milford, Hebron Lakewood, and Greenville are just a few that I specifically know. I am sure there are several that I do not follow. The first point on 14u Teams is more opinion-based, but the second point on teams playing at a high level is supported by the play of those teams.

Good points DJB11, but I think "very high level" probably needs to be defined. When I say "very high level" I am referring to a top 30-40 14u team nationally or a player who is a top-100-150. I have serious doubts that many (if any) of the HS teams you listed could have competed with Lilley and Alvello's 14u Bandits team or would currently compete with 14u OC Batbusters, Impact Gold, SoCal A's, etc... If when we say "very high level" we mean high level for high school teams in comparison then I agree with everything you said... those teams could possibly compete at a national level. Unfortunately, as you say, this is all opinion based as I have never seen any of these programs compete against HS teams from TX or CA so who really knows. I know Walsh competed against some KY and NY teams and fared well this year, but that's still a much different level than out west.
 
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DJB11

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Good points DJB11, but I think "very high level" probably needs to be defined. When I say "very high level" I am referring to a top 30-40 14u team nationally or a player who is a top-100-150. I have serious doubts that many (if any) of the HS teams you listed could have competed with Lilley and Alvello's 14u Bandits team or would currently compete with 14u OC Batbusters, Impact Gold, SoCal A's, etc... If when we say "very high level" we mean high level for high school teams in comparison then I agree with everything you said... those teams could possibly compete at a national level. Unfortunately, as you say, this is all opinion based as I have never seen any of these programs compete against HS teams from TX or CA so who really knows. I know Walsh competed against some KY and NY teams and fared well this year, but that's still a much different level than out west.

Lol. When you talk about those players and teams, you are talking "elite" level so there is some defining to do. I would still say that most, if not all, of the teams I mentioned would be able to "compete" with those teams due to WOW's point of age and maturity as well as some pretty good softball talent. (Fully acknowledging that Lilley, Alvello and the California Teams are excellent players and teams)
 
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