Elyria High Pioneers

CARDS

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Raising my girls near Elyria and facing their teams on a constant basis, I will say this...they know a rule book like a back of their hand. They could interpret that rule book with the rest of them=QUOTE].

Sad that the umpires did not have the same dedication...

I remember a 2012 OHSAA D1 contest between Colerain and Little Miami at Colerain...Colerain up 4-1 in the 5th when a Little Miami coach calls a meeting on the mound in the top of 5.
The Drone umpires do as instructed and goes out to the mound. Our coach being young (I think she was like 25) sat in the dugout as the boys club had their meeting...

Inning starts and first pitch called a strike... LM Coach calls time...Goes out and talks to first base umpire, the flood gates open and they call 6 illegal pitches. Wait...It gets better...The LM coach calls time again and goes to the Home Plate umpire with a rule book...
Well as everyone else knew the umpire advanced the runner two bases that they did not do when illegal pitches were called with runners on. Keep in mind the pitcher was not called for an illegal pitch all season and ended up with 13 in 3 innings between the 5 and 7th...So, those that have been to the CAGE know the fans get a little restless. Bottom line is the CARDS hold on to win but LM scored 4 runs on illegal pitches.

Look at this game for more playoff umpire buffoonery...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBL83vICESQ
 
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flygirlsdad

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Having watched the video from third base side, there is no way that runner scores without the obstruction. The umps didn't have video, but it would be interesting to hear what that ump actually felt he saw at the time and how he feels now that video is out. It's just too bad that on field play wasn't the games ultimate deciding factor.
 

Coach Tony

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I have heard mentioned a few times a possible "home cooking" angle to the umpiring in the Division I state championship game...hinting at a possible bias towards Elyria due to the game being played in Akron, etc.

To be clear, none of the umpires from that game were from the Northeast district. The umpires that worked that game were from Westerville, Reynoldsburg, Hebron and Johnstown.

Hopefully this lays to rest that possible explanation.

In any case, it was a crazy, intense last inning. Wish I was there to see it with my own eyes to see how it all played out. I have only heard second hand how this all went down.
 

CARDS

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I have heard mentioned a few times a possible "home cooking" angle to the umpiring in the Division I state championship game...hinting at a possible bias towards Elyria due to the game being played in Akron, etc.

To be clear, none of the umpires from that game were from the Northeast district. The umpires that worked that game were from Westerville, Reynoldsburg, Hebron and Johnstown.

Hopefully this lays to rest that possible explanation.

In any case, it was a crazy, intense last inning. Wish I was there to see it with my own eyes to see how it all played out. I have only heard second hand how this all went down.

Best video angle I have seen...Watch a season of High school softball and you will see the contact like in the video a ton at first base 50/50 on how the umpire calls it.

You hate to see so many miscues in a championship game let alone 4 on one play by Lebanon and one by the third base umpire....Elyria may have won anyhow with allowing the runner to safely return to third IMO that is what should have been the call.


[video]http://www.jwphotography.biz/Sports/OHSAA-2017-State-Championship-Ending-Play/i-JfjdQst[/video]
 
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tankerlab

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So it leaves a lot of "If"...........
Cause IF there was no obstruction she would have been farther down the line if on a dead run & left out to hang!!!!!!
IF she was rounding to spot the ball and decide - Catch has the ball running towards you & Pitcher is at the plate - Unless runner & coach are losing their minds - she retreats back to 3B! Watching from both angles - how can you not see that clearly??? Now in defense of the Umpires, they had to take all this in from their view only in a matter of seconds - but there are 4 of them in this game.
You may not be able to decide "what either team should have done" - but basic sense tells those who are able to look at the video - That Runner never would have scored without additional errors.....

If "If & Buts" were candy and nuts...
 
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JoeA1010

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So it leaves a lot of "If"...........
Cause IF there was no obstruction she would have been farther down the line if on a dead run & left out to hang!!!!!!
IF she was rounding to spot the ball and decide - Catch has the ball running towards you & Pitcher is at the plate - Unless runner & coach are losing their minds - she retreats back to 3B! Watching from both angles - how can you not see that clearly??? Now in defense of the Umpires, they had to take all this in from their view only in a matter of seconds - but there are 4 of them in this game.
You may not be able to decide "what either team should have done" - but basic sense tells those who are able to look at the video - That Runner never would have scored without additional errors.....

My only interest is in applying the rule to the situation. I don't care who won the game and I don't care about what seems fair to one side or the other. For me, this is simply an opportunity to figure out a rule application on a confusing play in a huge situation. When it comes to the decision on what base to award an obstructed runner, I believe the proper application of the rule is to award the base the runner would have achieved without the obstruction based upon exactly how the defense played out the play, rather than guessing what the defense would have done with the ball had they not obstructed the runner. I intend to ask a couple of high-level umpires whether that understanding is correct.

I have since found out that the plate ump for the state title game was an umpire who is among the most respected not only in the state, but around the country. He works high-level college games and the NPF. It doesn't mean he and his crew can't get a call wrong or that they didn't get this one wrong, but if he isn't good enough to work a state high school game, the OHSAA will have a hard time ever finding an umpire good enough.
 

Coach Tony

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Best video angle I have seen...Watch a season of High school softball and you will see the contact like in the video a ton at first base 50/50 on how the umpire calls it.

You hate to see so many miscues in a championship game let alone 4 on one play by Lebanon and one by the third base umpire....Elyria may have won anyhow with allowing the runner to safely return to third IMO that is what should have been the call.


[video]http://www.jwphotography.biz/Sports/OHSAA-2017-State-Championship-Ending-Play/i-JfjdQst[/video]

Wow, that is definitely a good angle on the play. I saw one previous video that didn't show the contact near third base (due to camera angle). Thanks for providing.
 

coachjwb

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Joe ... please let us know back here what you hear from any umpires you talk to ...
 

skredsfan

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This is the rule (See Below) as it's written, in the 2017 NFHS Rule Book. You be the judge on whether or not that girl would've scored, had she not been obstructed at 3rd base. Coming all the way from 2nd base, while lying on her back.

I say 50-50 chance at the very best, but probably more like 10-90 imo! That's a ton of ground to cover on an overthrow that was picked up pretty quickly by the Lebanon Catcher. No way I'll be convinced by anyone that the runner would've scored, had she not been obstructed with. Ridiculous way to end any game, much less a State a Championship.

"If the obstructed runner is put out prior to reaching the base that would have been reached had there not been obstruction, a dead ball is called and the obstructed runner and each other runner affected by the obstruction will be awarded the base or bases which would have been reached, in the umpire's judgment, had there not been obstruction. An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where she was obstructed."
 

skredsfan

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Tough call. The way I understand obstruction is that it removes you from jeopardy of being put out, it doesn't give you an additional base per say. That is up to the discretion of the umpire. It looked to me that the catcher had the ball and was bringing it back to the plate before throwing up the line. I could have seen the obstruction called and the runner returned to third. As a poster stated earlier, the runner likely would not have attempted to score or she would have ran straight into the out as the catcher had the ball by the plate. I believe it would have been fair to place her back at third as the obstruction was not likely the cause of her being out at the plate. Wasn't there so just going off comments and video. Congrats to Elyria. Feel bad for Lebanon losing on a pure judgement call.

I agree with you 100% Below is the rule as it's written.

"If the obstructed runner is put out prior to reaching the base that would have been reached had there not been obstruction, a dead ball is called and the obstructed runner and each other runner affected by the obstruction will be awarded the base or bases which would have been reached, in the umpire's judgment, had there not been obstruction. An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where she was obstructed."
 
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