Enjoy it while you got it...

[Mad Hornet]

Hi Softball Community! It's been a while since I posted here as I retired from coaching in the Lasers organization two summers ago. I am still in contact with many of my former players we really had a special group and a thing that continually comes up is how now that they are in college they and their parents (most not necessarily all) have come to the realization that for all the work they put in to achieve that goal of being a collegiate player, those travel ball days were the best days of their softball careers.

Sadly, I estimate that more of the players (60-75%?) we helped get into college are having a very negative softball experience. Frankly it seems from at least the sampling of players I know that a majority of softball coaches are disgusting, vile people, worst case, or lazy and apathetic best case. I'm not going to elaborate while they are still playing but at some point I'm considering posting a tell-all. Nothing surprises me anymore, but as I started to learn what was happening I was astounded. I'll give one example: A head coach of one of my former players literally told one of her teammates that he only recruited her because her mom recently died and he felt sorry for her, but "you're never going to see the field".

At one point I advocated for starting a college review section on this forum and it never went anywhere. Sometimes all the research and visits you do before making a decision are just worthless. And current players you ask questions of are too afraid of repercussions to give honest answers. That's the reality and it's at all levels D1, 2, 3, and NAIA.

 

[jt7663]

Would Greatly help the next group of girls if there was a platform to share the girls experiences & advice.

 

[Mad Hornet]

Here's the other thing. College coaches LOVE to take a player's greatest strength, and improve it....by ruining it! I'm talking a hitter's swing, a pitcher's best pitch, the way a shortstop makes a throw, etc. They want to put their thumbprint on that player and make them in their image and it almost never does anything but cause the player to struggle and lose confidence. I could give lots of examples, but not yet...

 

[yocoach]

I have always told my players to look at colleges as if they weren't going to play softball there. Between negative coaches, injuries, coaching changes, transfers, players struggling with time management issues, classes/majors conflicting with their commitments, etc. etc. I've been told on more than several occasion by some mid-major D1 and Major D1 coaches that almost 90% of college softball players don't fulfill their 4 year commitment to the original school they've signed their NLI with. Whether that statistic is true or not, I don't know. You and I go a long ways back Mad Hornet and we agree on most everything. I completely agree that we should have some sort of college coach database/resource that would allow parents and players access to see whether the college they think they want to attend is actually the one they want to "play" for.

There would be one severe problem with it as I see it. TB does not prepare the players to play on a college team. Skill-wise, game experience, position-wise, etc., absolutely it does. However, and I've said it on here before, it's a very selfish form of softball. TB is all about getting the individual player recruited. From the players perspective, it's all about if they're a starter, gets a majority of playing time and if they get recruited. They have to play in a team setting but often times they are individuals that are talented enough to succeed as a team versus being a team player. IME, few players at the higher levels know how to be a team player. They're not used to sitting the bench and waiting for their time to shine. Few realize the fact that the reason the coach recruited them is more than likely the same reason that he or she recruited the players on the team older than them. That the players already there have worked just as hard as them, if not harder, to reach the same level of success and striving to be a starter. Plus the established players have more experience at that level and have more experience with that particular coach. So to have players complain about their experiences at that level, it's going to be simply a case of he said-she said but only from one side of the equation. To impugn a college coach's reputation on a national and public forum may not be a good idea.

There are poor coaches in every aspect of this game from rec to, yes, college. That said, complacent or apathetic coaches can be construed in one of three ways, 1) As we have both said on numerous occasions the term for a college player is a student-athlete. The first word in that is student. Thus, many college coaches are secure enough in their jobs that they only need to compete but not necessarily win every game and they're placing their players academics first. My DD's college coach was that way and measured team success via academics. 2) They're secure enough in their jobs that they just need to compete and not necessarily win to keep them employed thus they simply go by seniority. Or 3) They hate where they are at for whatever reason and are actively looking for somewhere to go. A shocking statistic is that only 35% of college coaches remain at the same school for more than 3 years.

However, just because college coaches are coaching at that level, certainly doesn't mean that they actually know what they're doing as far as mechanics go in everything from hitting to fielding to pitching. Many times I've watched my DD's team face opposing college teams where I've thought to myself. "With that swing, I wouldn't let any of them play for my TB team."

 

[Mad Hornet]

I appreciate your reply and I get all this stuff and it's really not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about power trips going unchecked. Coaches who look at their players as potential next girlfriends. Sadists, racists, pathological liars, etc. Perhaps if these people knew they were being reviewed they would behave like normal humans. And I guarantee there are plenty of people reading this who know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[daboss]

I appreciate your reply and I get all this stuff and it's really not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about power trips going unchecked. Coaches who look at their players as potential next girlfriends. Sadists, racists, pathological liars, etc. Perhaps if these people knew they were being reviewed they would behave like normal humans. And I guarantee there are plenty of people reading this who know exactly what I'm talking about.

I am not going to speak on behalf of yocoach but as I read his post I believe both of you (Mad Hornet) are shining light on the same topic. While I agree in general with some of the points of interest mentioned, I recommend everyone take a deep breath before calling out any college program, mainly for legal reasons. This kind of thing would be better served if written by an independent source that's detached from it all so it can be viewed objectively.

I'm in agreement with yocoach in his advice to families about looking at a school as if you'd never play softball there. You'll be a student there much more than you'll ever be a player. Don't sensationalize the opportunity. Play the game because you have a passion for it. I would say this same thing to any young person for any sport.

When you start chasing the game instead of chasing your future, you've become derailed from the path in life that you'll get the most benefit. Some times we lose sight of this fact. I'm guilty, as are many coaches. I'll ask a former player or softball student how they're doing in school while my main goal is to get to the real question "How's softball?" That shouldn't matter but it does and I catch myself reeling back from pursuing the topic, especially if it strikes a nerve.

I commend young ladies for having a sound set of priorities, much better than many young men. One of the many differences I have observed over the years when comparing boys to girls is girls will put their education over and above playing a game. Boys would go to college a 5th year if it meant a chance to play 4 full years of sports where a girl will quit the team if it interferes with their class schedule. Many girls would graduate in 3 years if they could. There's nothing wrong with it. It's simply how they are wired. Young ladies are ready to grow up, boys want to be kids forever.

Maybe that's why I still coach..............

 

[CARDS]

Back in 2011 I was at a NFCA coaches clinic where the guest speaker was talking specifically about female athletes (regardless of sport) struggling to stay at the college/university they committed to until they graduate.

Her numbers was over 35% of female athletes transferring to another program, leaving sports or dropping out of school. Over the past 10 years I would say the number is over 40% at the DII/DI level. Most of the ladies that played for me going on to JC/NAIA or DIII including the teams I follow locally did not see the high turnover percentage.

Its rare to see coaching at any level stay with the same program for more than 5 years. I have seen many HS and College coaches take a job at a small school in hopes of bigger and better opportunities and there is nothing wrong with that IMO as long as it is communicated as such and they grow the players with the same desire as they have for themselves.

As mentioned above, college coaching has less specific requirements to coach than HS so a lot of the times you get "unqualified coaching" around the team as was the case in Toledo and Rutgers where they had a lot of player turnover due to the actions of the boyfriend/husband of the head coach and how she handled the team. (This happens more that people know)...

Locally I know of a small DI program that has had a revolving door of coaching since the move from DII and has struggled since making the jump to DI with lots of player / coaching movement.
In this case the new coaches bring with them players from their previous program or players they were recruiting from their previous program that honestly were not as talented as the current roster.

Understanding the rules and strategies of the game is another area coaches struggle with at both HS and collegiate levels. Heck even some umpires struggle in this area especially when the DP/Flex is used.

As yocoach and daboss stated finding a school that fits the educational goals and family should be the number one factor in choosing a college. Generally the ladies/families that do this stick with the sport and school.

On a side note: I was looking over a list of colleges that have dropped a number of men's and women's sports. Ladies Tennis and Golf was hit the hardest followed by Lacrosse, Softball and Swimming. In Ohio Wright state blindsided their coach and players in 2020 with the decision to drop softball so even college administration can effect the ladies / families negatively.

 

[yocoach]

I appreciate your reply and I get all this stuff and it's really not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about power trips going unchecked. Coaches who look at their players as potential next girlfriends. Sadists, racists, pathological liars, etc. Perhaps if these people knew they were being reviewed they would behave like normal humans. And I guarantee there are plenty of people reading this who know exactly what I'm talking about.

I knew exactly what you were talking about. I was trying to distract you from chasing that rabbit down it's hole You aren't the only coach to ask former players, 'How's it going in college?' only to have them unload on you all of their SB problems since you, or us collectively, for the most part, are trusted mentors. This is why I now emphasize not only going to a school they'd want to attend if not playing SB, but getting the best grades they can achieve to get academic moneys and not be dependent on the athletic scholarship money to continue to attend the college of their dreams should they decide to quit for whatever reason or had a career ending injury. Other than the top 25 teams/P5 conferences which are guaranteed for 4 years, a vast majority of athletic scholarships are year to year which many families don't realize or know. As long as the players maintain their grades, academic moneys will always be there which you know. Also, it makes them more appealing to college coaches since they don't have to spend near as much Athletic scholly money to recruit them and spend it on other athletes that they want that aren't as academically accomplished. Again, which you know already.

 

[flygirlsdad]

https://extrainningsoftball.com/bel...strative-leave-during-title-ix-investigation/

 

[BruisedShins]

This kind of thing would be better served if written by an independent source that's detached from it all so it can be viewed objectively.

The problem is the "independent sources" do not have access to the same information/experiences that players do.

 

[daboss]

The problem is the "independent sources" do not have access to the same information/experiences that players do.

While I agree that players/families involved in negative experiences would have first-hand knowledge, they also only offer one side of a story. We all know how unfair it is to make a determination of wrongdoing with only one side of any situation. I'm not calling anyone out. Just the opposite. I won't condemn a program, coach, or coaching staff without hearing their response to allegations. To be fair, it takes an investigation and a finding of facts.

In cases involving college programs, the parents are not there nor are they directly involved in the day to day operation. While I have personally observed poor programs and coaches, I still did not feel it was my place to destroy them. Nobody made me judge, jury, and executioner. My recommendation to the unhappy party would be to leave and relocate if you are in a program by choice (College or Travel Ball). In the cases involving school districts there are procedures in place that need to be followed before you barnstorm a program with allegations.

People can vent and we will listen. If your goal is to expose and make a righteous change for something better, you need to follow thru to the end. If not, it's just noise or biased claims without justification. Just my opinion. It's how I'm wired.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

My granddaughter has many scholarships including 70% plus room and boarding from her School. But is planning on Graduating in 3 years, she wanted to enjoying the full four years of being part of her college and the team and getting the full experience. But as said above she want to move on and start her career. Nothing to do with a negative or bad experience, she just ready to move on.

 

[Mad Hornet]

While I agree that players/families involved in negative experiences would have first-hand knowledge, they also only offer one side of a story. We all know how unfair it is to make a determination of wrongdoing with only one side of any situation. I'm not calling anyone out. Just the opposite. I won't condemn a program, coach, or coaching staff without hearing their response to allegations. To be fair, it takes an investigation and a finding of facts.

In cases involving college programs, the parents are not there nor are they directly involved in the day to day operation. While I have personally observed poor programs and coaches, I still did not feel it was my place to destroy them. Nobody made me judge, jury, and executioner. My recommendation to the unhappy party would be to leave and relocate if you are in a program by choice (College or Travel Ball). In the cases involving school districts there are procedures in place that need to be followed before you barnstorm a program with allegations.

People can vent and we will listen. If your goal is to expose and make a righteous change for something better, you need to follow thru to the end. If not, it's just noise or biased claims without justification. Just my opinion. It's how I'm wired.

I don't know why reviews would have to be one sided. Certainly the coach or others who disagree with a review should be able to respond. College is a huge investment - both money and time (we can always make more money but a wasted year is gone forever). I can buy anything from a car to a 2 dollar pack of tomato seeds and read all kinds of reviews to make an informed buying decision before making the buy. And very often I see the seller respond to negative reviews. I still buy all kinds of things that have SOME negative reviews. But not if they are nearly all negative.

 

[Mad Hornet]

For anyone still on Twitter, I would encourage you to check out Alexis Strother's post of late. It's quite relevant to this topic. Particularly to the mental health aspect of these collegiate athletes in a week where we saw a JMU catcher commit the unspeakable.

 

[Mad Hornet]

Another update! Again for anyone still on Twitter. Check out @_kaitlynyoung she recently made multiple posts about 18 hours ago. Today is Tuesday July 5 at 11am. The coach she is referring to is Jane Worthington at Eastern Kentucky University. Having a daughter who transferred out of her program after her freshman year, I can attest it is actually worse than what Kaitlyn describes. And her posts are heart-wrenching.

 

[Bob45429]

Wish these posts were available in another form. Would love to educate and learn from one persons experience.

 

[Mad Hornet]

Wish these posts were available in another form. Would love to educate and learn from one persons experience.

I agree. I'm not actually on twitter my wife showed it to me this morning. It's kind of a long read, but everything she talks about with regard to the abuse and utter disregard for their athletes mental (and physical for that matter) health is legit. I will say the stuff about depriving them meals came as a surprise but I can only imagine she got worse once the team started losing so much. I think by the time players, quit, transferred, and "got cut" at the end of this season Jane was literally down to six or seven players. But I'm sure in her mind she can simply go to the transfer portal, where other unhappy players think they are going to greener pastures yet are none the wiser, and reload. Those poor suckers will end up wishing they had stayed at their current bad situation!

 

[HITTER23]

You almost feel bad for being a part of them realizing their "dream" when it turns to shit. I'd go with 50-60 percent of my former players have had bad experiences, enough that they transfer or quit period.

 

[CARDS]

The ladies we had go through the organization or HS programs that seem to enjoy playing in college the most played NAIA, DIII or Club ball for U.C. or UK.
I would say 90% of the ladies that made it to DI/DII seemed to have similar negative experience with the coach or school. Some stayed while others walked away from the game all together.

 

[Bob45429]

WOW, thanks for the heads up ^^^.