Guidelines...Enforcement Responsibilites

IRdad09

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All....I think we can all agree that youth sports was in an uphill battle to start with. We should be thankful that we at least have the chance to play. Will we play, how will it look I don't know. But at least there is a possibility so ill take it for whats it is worth and still hold out hope it can be somewhat of a "normal" season.
 

Dawgsdad

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Imo, youth sports was never a priority for Dewine. All that he has done is given us some guidelines that are sensible and others that are nonsense. Going forward, we have the option to play or not based on the guidelines. As far as he sees the debate, its over and we must deal with it. As for the umps, especially the umps, in dugout, coaches at each base and while on premises requiring us to wear a mask is just a ploy to shut down the growing argument to play. You can go out with family and friends and sit at a table up to 10 people at a bar/restaurant without a mask but softball is more restrictive outside. His inconsistent and hypocrisy are rampant. For weeks, he was slow and very cautious. Come may 10th or so, everything can open in a week or 2. C'mon. Outside dining may 15th and inside may 21st! What's the damn difference of the 6 days between inside or outside? SMDH!!!!!!
 
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daboss

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agree boss. one bad apple can ruin the whole bunch! i guess we need a dummies guide here to post.

let me start... add if you have any other questions. keep them simple.

1) do parents need to wear mask when watching? yes or no
2) do parents, players coaches any humans need to wear masks when walking around the park? yes or no
3) do coaches need to wear on the field? yes or no
4) do players need to wear masks when playing or warming up? yes or no
5) Do players need to wear a mask in the bench area if 6' distancing cant be accomplished? yes or no?
6) will the umps (field and plate) be required to wear a mask during games?
7) does each team keep track of their own softballs through out the games? separate balls for each team.
8) will TD's provide hand sanitizer at all fields and all bench areas?
9) will gate fees go up to cover these extra costs?
10) will the ump be required to "hold the law" of the fields... see a coach with no mask / does the ump have the right or does he even want to be the guy to "police" the people?
11) will umps use hand signals now more instead of yelling? silent games?
12) are games going to be shorter because the umps might pass out with the lack of oxygen?

please feel free to answer these and add more......

I believe the list above is very thorough DanMaz. While there may be more to consider I believe the shared questions are enough to force TD's to have doubt about trying to host a tourney. As long winded as I am, I could write all morning on each of the questions you have shared. I won't torture everyone with it. lol.

While a lot of planning has gone into the guidelines, there's still plenty of conflict due to the "intent" and what they actually want us to do. This is what is raising so much doubt. This is confusing to us AND those working that will ultimately be enforcing things. To much gray area needs to be defined and my only guess is it will take time to clear this up. My concern being that people will intemperate and try to enforce mandates without more concise guidelines. I've seen this already. It's sure to happen again.

Look, the easiest decision is to cancel. Just stay out until things are better. That isn't always the most popular decision but it is the safest. Next would be to error on the side of caution and try to adhere to all facets of the mandates and attempt to enforce them to the fullest. This won't be popular and certainly will be controversial. The other would be come up with your own interpretation of the guidelines and hope it falls safely within. This could help clear up any misconceptions and confusions but risky without pre-approval from the right agencies. It would set a precedent for others to follow and only then would we know what to do. The last option would be to throw it all out the window and do whatever you want. That's not going to work. Somebody will pay.

When you have conflicting mandates overlapping it almost always leads somebody to get burnt. It becomes an effort of "interpretation" and common sense does not always prevail.

I try to be a calculated guy and lean towards making choices and advise others to go with the better odds. It's just my nature. Because of this, I have a suggestion for TD's and organization directors:

I would get proactive to get a Health Dept. representative or whatever dept that truly is making the decisions, somebody with authority, to be involved in a Zoom or phone conference meeting and make sure they address the questions above and any others you can add to the list. Try to get them to spell it out in detail exactly what is acceptable and what's not. Only then will you have any true guidelines before an event takes place. Get your ducks in a row and only allow a select few to ask the questions while others listen in only. Record the session so you can review it. This will move things along in a more productive manner and with their time being so precious right now they might be agreeable to such a format.

They want to get things going in the State. Getting a travelball tourney under their belt will only help them make adjustments for any future outdoor events. They need this to happen as much as you want it to happen. Some will say it is already happening as race tracks and the such held events last weekend. This is still different. The rules need to be made clearer to put organizers at ease. Let's eliminate the unknowns beforehand.
 

SonicMojo

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I suspect that most health departments have much bigger concerns than to deal youth sports at the micro level. My guess would be that most health departments would simply say follow the state guidelines. It will be interesting to see if sports show up on local health department meeting agendas.
 

OHsoftball

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People are saying just cancel...
Serious question... Is it in our kids BEST interest to cancel? Is that really what is best for THEM? Is it best to keep them hidden and "safe" in their rooms all summer?
 

daboss

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I believe the list above is very thorough DanMaz. While there may be more to consider I believe the shared questions are enough to force TD's to have doubt about trying to host a tourney. As long winded as I am, I could write all morning on each of the questions you have shared. I won't torture everyone with it. lol.

While a lot of planning has gone into the guidelines, there's still plenty of conflict due to the "intent" and what they actually want us to do. This is what is raising so much doubt. This is confusing to us AND those working that will ultimately be enforcing things. To much gray area needs to be defined and my only guess is it will take time to clear this up. My concern being that people will intemperate and try to enforce mandates without more concise guidelines. I've seen this already. It's sure to happen again.

Look, the easiest decision is to cancel. Just stay out until things are better. That isn't always the most popular decision but it is the safest. Next would be to error on the side of caution and try to adhere to all facets of the mandates and attempt to enforce them to the fullest. This won't be popular and certainly will be controversial. The other would be come up with your own interpretation of the guidelines and hope it falls safely within. This could help clear up any misconceptions and confusions but risky without pre-approval from the right agencies. It would set a precedent for others to follow and only then would we know what to do. The last option would be to throw it all out the window and do whatever you want. That's not going to work. Somebody will pay.

When you have conflicting mandates overlapping it almost always leads somebody to get burnt. It becomes an effort of "interpretation" and common sense does not always prevail.

I try to be a calculated guy and lean towards making choices and advise others to go with the better odds. It's just my nature. Because of this, I have a suggestion for TD's and organization directors:

I would get proactive to get a Health Dept. representative or whatever dept that truly is making the decisions, somebody with authority, to be involved in a Zoom or phone conference meeting and make sure they address the questions above and any others you can add to the list. Try to get them to spell it out in detail exactly what is acceptable and what's not. Only then will you have any true guidelines before an event takes place. Get your ducks in a row and only allow a select few to ask the questions while others listen in only. Record the session so you can review it. This will move things along in a more productive manner and with their time being so precious right now they might be agreeable to such a format.

They want to get things going in the State. Getting a travelball tourney under their belt will only help them make adjustments for any future outdoor events. They need this to happen as much as you want it to happen. Some will say it is already happening as race tracks and the such held events last weekend. This is still different. The rules need to be made clearer to put organizers at ease. Let's eliminate the unknowns beforehand.

Update; In the time it took me to write the above in response to DanMaz, 2 pages of posts including a post from Mike Craig has been shared. lol.

While Mike's post has plenty of information about the committee and the initial interactions and results, I believe it is a prime example of why there needs to be another meeting to try and achieve more clarity. Mike is correct, tactfully trying to work with these people is the only way we can achieve the ultimate goal.
 

daboss

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Who were the geniuses representing softball on this supposed "youth sports committee" who thought this was a good idea and didn't bother to point out the hypocrisy of these things to the governor?

"I never said I was going to give out my team name. This is a forum for exchanging ideas and I'm going to express mine."

I recently dealt with a young father that was extremely outspoken. He made his claims that "This is America and he could say or do whatever I want!" Yes, you can but there can be consequences.

All of us need to follow guidelines and rules in some degree. You rob a bank, you go to jail. "I needed money" is not a defense. You want to be a
martyr, watch out what you wish for.

Your actions define you as a person. Your words are normally a reflection of how you act, how you feel, and how you represent yourself and your family. You get banned from softball, don't blame everyone else. After all, it is America. You made a choice in life to speak your mind. This time you cost your family and the ones around you a life time of grief. Good luck.
 
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RSDad

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INDIANA RULES
Everyone just come here to play.





Tim Foster
Indiana USSSA State Director


Indiana Parks and USSSA Staff Promise to you

-Will follow the guideline set forth by the state.

-When needed, we will divide parks off to where two groups can play in different areas.

-Provide Hand Sanitizer throughout the park.

-Keep dugouts and fencing areas used by players sanitized.

-Keep restrooms clean and sanitized more often.

-Parks will put in place a safety guideline for the number of persons allowed in each restroom to keep social distancing in place.

-Guidelines to be set for social distancing in the concession stand lines.

-Some parks have decided to go to credit card use only.

-Some parks may not sell concessions and USSSA will provide updates on these parks before each event, so teams can prepare.

-All concession staff will be required to wear mask and gloves.

-One coach only at coaches check in.

-For the safety of no social gathering to keep crowds down we will not do an on-site gate until restrictions are removed. Gates will be a $200 pre-paid prior to the games.

-For the safety of all, USSSA will not allow any on-site vending until restrictions are lifted.

-USSSA will provide extra staff to provide any needs that need to be done.

-There will no on-site brackets hung at parks. All updates will be done through the USSSA on-line system.


USSSA player Guidelines/ In game Guidelines

-USSSA will limit teams to 32 people per team, which includes players and coaches. We base this on a four plex of 8 playing teams.

-Coaches we ask that you please help with this.

-All players temps should be verified by coaches before entering parks.

-Bleachers if used, will be assigned for players only. If bleachers are moved, then that space shall be roped off for teams batting to be allowed to have social distancing.

-All players shall always use social distancing.

-Two coaches allowed in dugout.

-Limit number of players allowed in dugouts as they must follow the social distancing guidelines.

-Players shall not participate in any hand shaking, hugging, high fiving, or prayer lines.

-We recommend that all equipment bags be hung outside dugouts.

-We recommend that no player share equipment such as, bats, gloves, helmets, and hats.

-Players will not be allowed to have gum or sunflower seeds.

-All teams must clean dugouts before leaving their games.

-It is recommended that all players sanitize their equipment before coming to games.

-It is recommended that all players carry hand sanitizer

-Players/coaches have must have lids on drinks while in dugouts.

-There will be no huddles allowed before, during or after games that are not following the social distancing guidelines.

-If a player/coach conference is needed, then that conference is between player/coach only.

-No player socializing in parks before or after games.

-Teams will be given two tournament balls at check in. Balls shall be distributed still in plastic wrap. Teams may purchase additional balls for $5 per ball. All balls will belong to the teams after the event is over. Teams are responsible for keeping up with softballs.

-Spectators will not be allowed in park until game before them has cleared out.

-Umpires will social distance themselves as much as possible when behind the plate.

-Awards presentation will be given out with social distancing with players and coaches only on the field.

-During pre-game only one coach at the plate from each team, along with the plate umpire with all using social distancing the best they can.

-The catcher and umpire should work together to give all parties at the plate the best safe social distancing as possible.

-Teams shall trade lineups if needed.

-Scores will be reported via text by umpires after games.

-When there is attention needed to anything please reach out to a staff member of USSSA or a park staff member.

USSSA Guidelines for Parents

-There will be NO sitting behind back stops or dugout areas.

-Social distancing seating always.

-Parents must provide their own lawn chairs for seating.

-When temp fencing is used parents will be issued seating outside the outfield fencing if possible.

-Parents will not be allowed inside the park until the game before them is over

-Parents must pick up all trash and place it in the trash containers closes to them.

-After your teams game please exit as soon as possible to allow others in the park.

-If parents bring tents no other parents may share that tent.

-There will be no gum or sunflower seeds allowed in the parks.

-If a child is brought as one of the people allowed, then that parent/guardian is responsible to make sure that child stays in the seating area.

-No parents will be allowed on the field during awards ceremonies
 

Dawgsdad

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INDIANA RULES
Everyone just come here to play.





Tim Foster
Indiana USSSA State Director


Indiana Parks and USSSA Staff Promise to you

-Will follow the guideline set forth by the state.

-When needed, we will divide parks off to where two groups can play in different areas.

-Provide Hand Sanitizer throughout the park.

-Keep dugouts and fencing areas used by players sanitized.

-Keep restrooms clean and sanitized more often.

-Parks will put in place a safety guideline for the number of persons allowed in each restroom to keep social distancing in place.

-Guidelines to be set for social distancing in the concession stand lines.

-Some parks have decided to go to credit card use only.

-Some parks may not sell concessions and USSSA will provide updates on these parks before each event, so teams can prepare.

-All concession staff will be required to wear mask and gloves.

-One coach only at coaches check in.

-For the safety of no social gathering to keep crowds down we will not do an on-site gate until restrictions are removed. Gates will be a $200 pre-paid prior to the games.

-For the safety of all, USSSA will not allow any on-site vending until restrictions are lifted.

-USSSA will provide extra staff to provide any needs that need to be done.

-There will no on-site brackets hung at parks. All updates will be done through the USSSA on-line system.


USSSA player Guidelines/ In game Guidelines

-USSSA will limit teams to 32 people per team, which includes players and coaches. We base this on a four plex of 8 playing teams.

-Coaches we ask that you please help with this.

-All players temps should be verified by coaches before entering parks.

-Bleachers if used, will be assigned for players only. If bleachers are moved, then that space shall be roped off for teams batting to be allowed to have social distancing.

-All players shall always use social distancing.

-Two coaches allowed in dugout.

-Limit number of players allowed in dugouts as they must follow the social distancing guidelines.

-Players shall not participate in any hand shaking, hugging, high fiving, or prayer lines.

-We recommend that all equipment bags be hung outside dugouts.

-We recommend that no player share equipment such as, bats, gloves, helmets, and hats.

-Players will not be allowed to have gum or sunflower seeds.

-All teams must clean dugouts before leaving their games.

-It is recommended that all players sanitize their equipment before coming to games.

-It is recommended that all players carry hand sanitizer

-Players/coaches have must have lids on drinks while in dugouts.

-There will be no huddles allowed before, during or after games that are not following the social distancing guidelines.

-If a player/coach conference is needed, then that conference is between player/coach only.

-No player socializing in parks before or after games.

-Teams will be given two tournament balls at check in. Balls shall be distributed still in plastic wrap. Teams may purchase additional balls for $5 per ball. All balls will belong to the teams after the event is over. Teams are responsible for keeping up with softballs.

-Spectators will not be allowed in park until game before them has cleared out.

-Umpires will social distance themselves as much as possible when behind the plate.

-Awards presentation will be given out with social distancing with players and coaches only on the field.

-During pre-game only one coach at the plate from each team, along with the plate umpire with all using social distancing the best they can.

-The catcher and umpire should work together to give all parties at the plate the best safe social distancing as possible.

-Teams shall trade lineups if needed.

-Scores will be reported via text by umpires after games.

-When there is attention needed to anything please reach out to a staff member of USSSA or a park staff member.

USSSA Guidelines for Parents

-There will be NO sitting behind back stops or dugout areas.

-Social distancing seating always.

-Parents must provide their own lawn chairs for seating.

-When temp fencing is used parents will be issued seating outside the outfield fencing if possible.

-Parents will not be allowed inside the park until the game before them is over

-Parents must pick up all trash and place it in the trash containers closes to them.

-After your teams game please exit as soon as possible to allow others in the park.

-If parents bring tents no other parents may share that tent.

-There will be no gum or sunflower seeds allowed in the parks.

-If a child is brought as one of the people allowed, then that parent/guardian is responsible to make sure that child stays in the seating area.

-No parents will be allowed on the field during awards ceremonies
That all seems simple...PLAY BALL!!!!!! LOL
 
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"I never said I was going to give out my team name. This is a forum for exchanging ideas and I'm going to express mine."

I recently dealt with a young father that was extremely outspoken. He made his claims that "This is America and he could say or do whatever I want!" Yes, you can but there can be consequences.

Most teams or organizations have social media policies. High school and college teams have them also. Anytime I have had issues with mouthy parents, a phone call or email to the organization president usually squelched that noise out.

Most of the reputable organizations do not want that reputation of it being a free-for-all with obnoxious parents who try to run the show.

I'm not trying to extract revenge or "tattle" on someone. I just do not want someone to be so unhappy that they voice this all day or weekend at an event. I'm glad to remove a team so they can go where the parents think the grass is greener. We have 4-5 other teams happy to come play with us and take there spot so no reason to have someone be unhappy and wish they were elsewhere.
 

mroby5172

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And just like that, all of the "mandatory" guidelines are no longer mandates. Wow. Saw this coming even less than the OK to play on 5/26.

All businesses still need to follow the guidelines for their specific area, which includes mandated items.
 

SonicMojo

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I probably got burned here reading DeWine's Twitter feed instead of the order itself, which I can't find yet.
 

Softydad

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"I never said I was going to give out my team name. This is a forum for exchanging ideas and I'm going to express mine."

I recently dealt with a young father that was extremely outspoken. He made his claims that "This is America and he could say or do whatever I want!" Yes, you can but there can be consequences.

All of us need to follow guidelines and rules in some degree. You rob a bank, you go to jail. "I needed money" is not a defense. You want to be a
martyr, watch out what you wish for.

Your actions define you as a person. Your words are normally a reflection of how you act, how you feel, and how you represent yourself and your family. You get banned from softball, don't blame everyone else. After all, it is America. You made a choice in life to speak your mind. This time you cost your family and the ones around you a life time of grief. Good luck.
Your entitled to your opinion, which I disagree with 1000%. I'm not sure how you think I cost anybody in my family anything. I simply expressed my thoughts about some of the nonsensical things being done by our government in relation to playing softball. You can agree or disagree...doesn't matter to me either way. You have heard of the Constitution and The Bill of Rights? In my opinion, Amy Acton is too involved in the governors orders and has her fingerprints all over these rules. Some of the things Mike Craig mentioned that they wanted to do at tournaments are incredibly nonsensical and really hypocritical when looking at the state's guides for restuarants and bars. As to tournaments and the actual playing of the games, I'm not going to say a word to anyone who is running any of softball tournaments. We will simply show up, my daughter will play and we will learn which ones are enjoyable to play in and which ones aren't by how they are run. I am guessing our team will then make decisions based on the experiences as to which ones we think we should play going forward and which ones we should probably avoid. It will come down to the personalities of the people running the tournament...like everything else in life. After reading Mike's excellent explanation as to how things came about in the negotiations with the state of Ohio I'm guessing his tournaments are going to be run as well as any could be, given the state's guidelines the TD's have to deal with. My daughter usually has many opportunities to play because she's always got 16U teams wanting her to sub when her 14U team isn't playing (which her 14U coach is totally fine with) so she'll always be able to play in or out of the state of Ohio each weekend based on what she wants to do if our team isn't playing various weekends. For instance, we just got an email today from the USSSA World Series tournament in Fort Walton Beach Florida and their rules all seem completely reasonable because they've got a great Governor running that state and it sounds like the people running their tournament are going to do their best to make it a really fun and enjoyable experience for everyone...regardless of COVID19.
 
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Love2Coachball

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If umpires are required to wear masks, we might as well all go out of state to play this summer! I can live with and abide by every other rule but this one concerns me. This is a bigger health risk than the corona virus! Unless this gets changed, I say tourneys won’t have any umps. This rule needs to be appealed somehow.

If I was an ump, I would put a piece of cloth over my face mask and call it good. Anyone with any medical knowledge would know that this rule is absurd.

The order says "face covering", so it works.
 

Love2Coachball

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I will answer these questions on my feelings.

1) yes. Parents need to wear mask. (Show your athlete it’s important to protect others)

2) Yes. Mask should be worn in the park at all times. Again protecting others.

3) Yes. Coaches lead by example to their athletes.

4) No. players only need to wear mask while in dugout or wondering around the park.

5) yes

6) yes. Umpires and coaches should wear mask during games.

7) yes. I feel a tram should be given 2 new balls every game and it’s the coaches responsibility it keep track.

8) This is the coach/ organization’s responsibility. If a TD is to supply all that extra stuff they didn’t have budgeted into their fee then the fee needs to go up per team. No fair for them to supply. As coaches it’s on us.

9) possibly. Good point. Again I feel it’s on the coach/ organization to provide.

10) he shouldn’t have to. We are role models and lead by example. Coaching youth athletes is more than the game. We are molding them for adulthood and teaching them how to act and handle situations on and off the field. But to answer if a coach wants to not follow the protocols then most certainly yes.

11) Lol. Gosh I hope not.

12) lol. Let’s just hope they have young or even middle age umps. No geriatric ward umpires. No offense to them some are great but we have ALL had to help an umpire that’s old and past their prime sit down get some water and so on.


Thanks for the little survey. I’m sure some won’t like my answers but that’s ok. On our team we will follow all protocols and lead by example. This is something they will remember and talk about 20-30yrs from now! Make it good memories through this. Easiest way to do that is make sure parents and coaches don’t bitch and say negative stuff about this whole ordeal.[/QUO
agree boss. one bad apple can ruin the whole bunch! i guess we need a dummies guide here to post.

let me start... add if you have any other questions. keep them simple.

1) do parents need to wear mask when watching? yes or no
2) do parents, players coaches any humans need to wear masks when walking around the park? yes or no
3) do coaches need to wear on the field? yes or no
4) do players need to wear masks when playing or warming up? yes or no
5) Do players need to wear a mask in the bench area if 6' distancing cant be accomplished? yes or no?
6) will the umps (field and plate) be required to wear a mask during games?
7) does each team keep track of their own softballs through out the games? separate balls for each team.
8) will TD's provide hand sanitizer at all fields and all bench areas?
9) will gate fees go up to cover these extra costs?
10) will the ump be required to "hold the law" of the fields... see a coach with no mask / does the ump have the right or does he even want to be the guy to "police" the people?
11) will umps use hand signals now more instead of yelling? silent games?
12) are games going to be shorter because the umps might pass out with the lack of oxygen?

please feel free to answer these and add more......
1. NO. They can space themselves out and with tents at tournaments etc. that is usually done.
2. I think it is recommended, but personally I don't think so. I think that should be preference. I think people tend to space out a lot at these things anyway.
3. Coaches are required. I plan to get creative though.
4.No-they are in the act of playing.
5. The orders say yes on this.
6. They are required, but if they don't, I sure as heck won't say anything. I want them to breathe.
7.yes
8. I don't think so. I think teams can handle that.
9. I think they will.
10. I think coaches will self-police and I hope we all just mind our own business and do our best.
11. I think they will talk much less because they will be hot and
oxygen deprived.
12. I think so.

Things are changing rapidly in Ohio. I am hoping some of these requirements are dropped before things start up.
 

Love2Coachball

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Once their game is over the players become "spectators" until their next game... Spectators are not required to wear masks.
That is what leads me to believe that the players are only required to wear masks while in the dugout area where they can't social distance.

That makes perfect sense.
 

Love2Coachball

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Imo, youth sports was never a priority for Dewine. All that he has done is given us some guidelines that are sensible and others that are nonsense. Going forward, we have the option to play or not based on the guidelines. As far as he sees the debate, its over and we must deal with it. As for the umps, especially the umps, in dugout, coaches at each base and while on premises requiring us to wear a mask is just a ploy to shut down the growing argument to play. You can go out with family and friends and sit at a table up to 10 people at a bar/restaurant without a mask but softball is more restrictive outside. His inconsistent and hypocrisy are rampant. For weeks, he was slow and very cautious. Come may 10th or so, everything can open in a week or 2. C'mon. Outside dining may 15th and inside may 21st! What's the damn difference of the 6 days between inside or outside? SMDH!!!!!!

I agree. It is a lot of nonsense.
 

Softydad

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I agree. It is a lot of nonsense.
Agreed. I just read through the judge's ruling and he hit the nail on the head and put Amy " let's lockdown forever" Acton and Dewine in their place.

This could really lead to a much better relaxing of the rules, which could really help us get travel softball back to somewhat normal this summer.

Also CDC just came out with new guidance and basically said that transmission through touching surfaces or food is noe found to be very low risk of transmission...which should completely relax the state's regulations concerning yravel ball tourneys and hopefully free up some of these fields and entities to host these tournaments without the fear of covid-19 outbreaks.

This just out today from the CDC concerning new information about the transmission of covid-19

"Recently, the American CDC changed its guidelines with regard to touching contaminated surfaces. The danger is now considered comparable to other low-risk transmission methods, including "from animals to people" and "from people to animals."

"It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes," the CDC guidelines now read. "This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more...”

Regarding concerns about transmission of the disease through food, the guidelines point out: "Currently, there is no evidence to support transmission of COVID-19 associated with food.”
 
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