How long till they want her to change

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@Hilliarddaddad3:

I've seen HS coaches at private pitching lessons, trying to make sure that the private and HS coaching approach was consistent. I don't think it would be surprising to see a similarly committed HS coach at a catching lesson. (And yes, in the unlikely scenario that 12 HS players had 12 private defensive skills coaches, the HS coach could not expect to meet with all of those coaches. But again, that is an unlikely scenario and IMO making sure that the battery has consistent coaching should be a priority).

Most importantly, the parent who posted about the catching situation perceived a serious disparity in the HS coach's instructions and the private instruction. (Compare Sammy's post about parents needing to be educated regarding the mechanics for softball skills). The parent asked for an explanation from the HS coach, received none, and then asked for a meeting with the private coach, which the HS coach rejected. To me, that is a red flag that the HS coach might be letting her ego get in the way of the best interest of the team. I'm pretty sure that I would have done just what the parents did: ask that the player be put in a different position so she did not have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of conflicting instructions.

 

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@Hilliarddaddad3:

I've seen HS coaches at private pitching lessons, trying to make sure that the private and HS coaching approach was consistent. I don't think it would be surprising to see a similarly committed HS coach at a catching lesson. (And yes, in the unlikely scenario that 12 HS players had 12 private defensive skills coaches, the HS coach could not expect to meet with all of those coaches. But again, that is an unlikely scenario and IMO making sure that the battery has consistent coaching should be a priority).

Most importantly, the parent who posted about the catching situation perceived a serious disparity in the HS coach's instructions and the private instruction. (Compare Sammy's post about parents needing to be educated regarding the mechanics for softball skills). The parent asked for an explanation from the HS coach, received none, and then asked for a meeting with the private coach, which the HS coach rejected. To me, that is a red flag that the HS coach might be letting her ego get in the way of the best interest of the team. I'm pretty sure that I would have done just what the parents did: ask that the player be put in a different position so she did not have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of conflicting instructions.

I am not sure if there was THAT much of a disparity in the HS coaches way of teaching and the Catching intstucting... as a matter fact I am sure of it...If I remember this player was a freshman ball player that was on the JV team and caught all year and was very good at it .at the JV level........... she is a very hard working athlete... the concern from the Varsity head coach was that was she going to be sucsessful at the Varsity level ...we all know there is quit a bit of differance between JV and Varsity .. the JV coach must have let her catch the way she is being taught ...she had a very good season and the post said she liked playing for this coach and had fun...

The bottom line again If a player is producing and is helping the program be succsessful than I do not care what they are being taught they are going to play...but if they are not getting the job done then it is OUR job as coaches to get them there..

Maybe the Varsity head coach is ONLY doing what she thinks is right for the PROGRAM ....the one she won a State Championship for as a player and maybe wants to win one as a coach now.....

JUST SAYING....

 

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643dp, I appreciate your input. My response is that by the time they're playing in college, the college coach should now be the only coach the player has. Tournament ball is over. Private lessons should be over. At this point; whatever the college coach says should be gold. (unless you picked the wrong college...)

Most college freshmen go in hoping to contribute big things their first year. Some do, but many fall short - a learning process of sorts. For the freshman that DOES fall short, the next summer had better be filled with some intense "fixing", or come next fall, the bench will be their close friend.

Many colleges budgets do not allow for a specialized hitting or pitching coach on staff, so they depend heavily on the recruit to "bring it" when they hit campus. Players who have a close relationship with the pitching/hitting coach who helped get them there is golden - especially when available between college seasons. Expecting your college team coach to identify your mechanics flaws and fix them is a false sense of security.

Not naming names... but I'll bet there's a certain gal rostered on a certain Indiana team next year who'll be visiting a certain "Big Guy" in Cincinnati during her summers...

 

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Not naming names either but a certain dad of a certain gal is trying to get a certain big guy up there for a clinic......... would be nice to have the college the girl goes to adopt his hitting style. Would make the girls life a whole lot less complicated.( Not to mention Dads lol)

Certain Dad

 

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Guess the ladies in our school system are extremely lucky! Every coach is tied very closely to select softball around the Cincy area and/or have children playing college softball...ALL of them.

 

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Some years back, while coaching my son's middle school baseball team, I had a dad request that I not instruct his son's swing mechanics because he was seeing a "private instructor". Fair enough - and great that he was getting extra instruction. Although it was obvious to me that with his current swing he would struggle against better pitching. But I honored the dad's request.

There is a false sense of security from perceived success. What the heck does that mean? For example, let's take the 13u kid who, in spite of her extreme bat drag habit, is batting .400+ on her summer rec level team - easy against flat slow pitching. That most likely is perceived as success by her parents.

Now, all of a sudden, come high school (and against the occasional college prep pitcher) her batting average falls off the cliff. Did the high school coach fail to teach this kid what she needs to succeed? Is the high school coach "ruining her swing"? I seriously doubt it. All it took was a challenge to show the results of flawed swing mechanics.

The mistake a lot of parents make is measuring success against a bar that is set extremely low. When the bar is raised, failure creeps in and the blame game starts. The approach I think works is when parents become involved in the education process - just like should happen with academics. High school ball is unique in that you can't simply jump teams like summer ball. There is a HUGE advantage in knowing WHY your DD is failing in certain aspects of her game - just like academics. If she goes into high school with superior mechanics and a great attitude, NO ONE can change those things but herself.

This post should be read by all potential players parents going into HS....... GREAT POST

 

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Guess the ladies in our school system are extremely lucky! Every coach is tied very closely to select softball around the Cincy area and/or have children playing college softball...ALL of them.

Doesn't matter Joed, it's the same in NWO. Most coaches are tied to travel teams, coaches that coach high level showcase teams, coaches who have taken teams ASA/USA nationals, coaches who have either been a head coach, assistant coach or player on state championship teams, coaches that are well versed in many aspects of coaching...but it doesn't matter every program still has atleast 1 ignorant parent that thinks they no more then the coach and had a slanted expanded view of their child.

I was at a father/daughter dance, I was talking to dad and high school softball came up. He tells me he heard my DD's former high school coach didn't know what he was doing. He told me who said it...what this guy was not informed about by the dad complaining about the high school coach was...the girl made varsity but they were going to have games during spring break so if she wanted to go on vacation instead of playing she'd have to start the season on JV. She choose JV, dad was mad at coach. This coach over his 15 years of coaching has had atleast 1 senior each year go on to play college softball at some level. His high school staff includes a former D1 college player who holds her MAC schools HR record, a former D2 catcher and a JV coach that is well schooled in RVP,Kobata etc. Coaches a very good travel team and an assistant coach that has been coaching fastpitch softball since 1990 and in that time attended more clinics and watched more softball then most people ever will...yet one dad who thought his DD was above the team rules is running around bashing the coach and his staff.

In my less informed days, I would have taken most of these high school coach bashing and believe...experience has taught me, most have an axe to grind for whatever reason and a few are in a real tough spot. Believe me Joed, there have been some posts or complaining about these very good coaches you just mentioned. It's parents nature to look for excuses when their kid doesn't make a team or the position they think they should play and they zero in on the head coach.

 

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Some years back, while coaching my son's middle school baseball team, I had a dad request that I not instruct his son's swing mechanics because he was seeing a "private instructor". Fair enough - and great that he was getting extra instruction. Although it was obvious to me that with his current swing he would struggle against better pitching. But I honored the dad's request.

There is a false sense of security from perceived success. What the heck does that mean? For example, let's take the 13u kid who, in spite of her extreme bat drag habit, is batting .400+ on her summer rec level team - easy against flat slow pitching. That most likely is perceived as success by her parents.

Now, all of a sudden, come high school (and against the occasional college prep pitcher) her batting average falls off the cliff. Did the high school coach fail to teach this kid what she needs to succeed? Is the high school coach "ruining her swing"? I seriously doubt it. All it took was a challenge to show the results of flawed swing mechanics.

The mistake a lot of parents make is measuring success against a bar that is set extremely low. When the bar is raised, failure creeps in and the blame game starts. The approach I think works is when parents become involved in the education process - just like should happen with academics. High school ball is unique in that you can't simply jump teams like summer ball. There is a HUGE advantage in knowing WHY your DD is failing in certain aspects of her game - just like academics. If she goes into high school with superior mechanics and a great attitude, NO ONE can change those things but herself.

Post of the Year.

 

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Doesn't matter Joed, it's the same in NWO...every program still has atleast 1 ignorant parent that thinks they no more then the coach and had a slanted expanded view of their child.

...experience has taught me, most have an axe to grind for whatever reason and a few are in a real tough spot. Believe me Joed, there have been some posts or complaining about these very good coaches you just mentioned. It's parents nature to look for excuses when their kid doesn't make a team or the position they think they should play and they zero in on the head coach.

I agree absolutely! I am my daughters biggest fan, and that will never change, but she will now play where she is told to play/when she is told to play. I will not bash the coaches in conversation with her behind their back, and we can still speak candidly about things.

Most importantly to my wife and I, she is a great kid, and she needs to work hard to get where she wants to...if she is not there, she needs to work harder. The coaches are out there to make her a better person, and get better at softball...

 

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@Hilliarddaddad3:

I've seen HS coaches at private pitching lessons, trying to make sure that the private and HS coaching approach was consistent. I don't think it would be surprising to see a similarly committed HS coach at a catching lesson. (And yes, in the unlikely scenario that 12 HS players had 12 private defensive skills coaches, the HS coach could not expect to meet with all of those coaches. But again, that is an unlikely scenario and IMO making sure that the battery has consistent coaching should be a priority).

Most importantly, the parent who posted about the catching situation perceived a serious disparity in the HS coach's instructions and the private instruction. (Compare Sammy's post about parents needing to be educated regarding the mechanics for softball skills). The parent asked for an explanation from the HS coach, received none, and then asked for a meeting with the private coach, which the HS coach rejected. To me, that is a red flag that the HS coach might be letting her ego get in the way of the best interest of the team. I'm pretty sure that I would have done just what the parents did: ask that the player be put in a different position so she did not have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of conflicting instructions.

Thanks CGS, I think you may be the only one who got what I was trying to say. The situation started in a normal way and we tried to be reasonable in response. We did follow standard-operating-procedure but it was unproductive. And to date, it really is unresolved but changing positions avoids the matter, IMO, so play ball.

The posts kind of took on a life of it's own and I was trying to use the situation to illustrate some points but I seemed to have failed making them. Of course no matter what, some here will always blame the parents so much so that it's become the standard cop-out.

For the record, in 12+ years of softball, this is the first real conflict with a coach. Normally, I'm quiet and out of the way. We usually host team bonding parties for my kids team, bring coolers of drinks for the team and parents, help carry stuff in and out, keeping book, even paid fees for other teammates so they could play, etc. And over those years we have had coaches and teams of varying talent and expertise. We even had a coach nicknamed "Psycho-Mike" (by other coaches) and we found out why that summer. I am a reasonable and logical person that keeps my ego and mouth normally in check.

I am not a crazy parent who believes his kid is better than the rest of the world. I never said that anywhere nor would i because i know this is a process leading to her acheiving her goals. There are still skills to learn and master. I never said she should be the catcher on the team. She's fine playing other spots, no problem. I do believe in my kids and do what I can to help pursue their dreams and succeed. Real simple. As obvious as many of you think parents can't notice what you do. It's as equally obvious that many parents notice things coaches don't.

The issue is was more of a logic question more so than the situation, but again I obviously didn't get it across well. But again, some were too interested in blaming the crazy parent rather than read the post. That's too bad.

Just saying...

 

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I think the root of a situation like this centers around the coach's personality type. Are they an extremely controlling individual, or are they receptive to ideas and suggestions? Granted, it takes a certain amount of ego to be a high school coach, and some just naturally lean more toward the "my way or the highway" approach.

With this type, there's really no asking politely if they'd consider something different than what they teach. Asking the coach to discuss with your DD's private instructor might be perceived as a weakness by them - admitting that they have been teaching wrong. To them, it could open the floodgates of criticism. That's really unfortunate, because there's ALWAYS something to learn, or even just a different perspective on the same exact teaching!

I just think this is a case of avoiding pushing the wrong buttons - so to speak. If you know the coach has a reputation for not being receptive, you really have no choice but to avoid pushing those buttons. For your DD's and your own sanity, sometimes it's better to let it slide, and just enjoy the four short years high school provides.

 

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@Uber, dude, you're taking some things out of context and you some of your assumptions are incorrect as well. It's understandable because my posts were bit a and pieces as I said previously about trying to illustrate a point which I admittedly didn't do a good job of.

Yes, my DD did play for the coach two seasons before she reached high school age. Yes she did play for the coach last year as a freshman when brought up by the coach on occasions.

No, I am not a crazy parent but if I believe in something, I will defend it. I believe in my DD as I would hope any parent would. We were reasonable with our concerns, we offered reasonable options like meeting the catching coach to discuss what's been instructed and why, and we asked questions without answers.

I would expect if a coach sees an a kid make a fielding error, they would instruct what and how to field it correctly and why a method is performed in a manner. That there is some logic and rational behind it. Especially if the kid ask why. This would at least provide an understanding for the kid so not only do they perform but also understand which would make them better players. As a parent, I would expect an expert to be able to do that in any field let alone coaching. I don't think that's too much to ask.

And yes, I have coached, not softball though. And I personally don't subscribe to the idea that because someone becomes a coach that they somehow get some sort of divine intelligence that magically puts them above anyone else.

And yes, avoiding issues regardless what they are be it addictions, money, job, etc. is an act of cowardice. It may be the best course of action this time but still cowardice. Hiding isn't an answer, the issue no matter what it is goes unresolved.

We will play it out and see what happens. And there's really no axe to grind. My frustration was more my inability to convey the idea that I was using a personal example to illustrate and it blew up in my face. I was not trying to bash the HS coach (which I ended up doing inadvertently) as much as demonstrating the perplexity kids are getting into when getting input from multiple sources. Using the personal example (situation with the HS coach) that the most logical thing to do is follow the greatest expertise. And others involved (again logically) understand and incorporate that expertise. The personal example was trying to show unnecessary and even unreasonable roadblock inserted into that learning process which puts the kid in difficult and conflicting situations. And then it spiraled out of control.

And by the responses, some caught on and some didn't. I believe some agree and some don't. These girls today are not just learning better skills through better training, but the serious ones are learning how to evaluate as their knowledge grows. I actually communicated with a west coast coach who said it becoming more common that the expertise of the player in specialty positions is surpassing that of the coach. I can tell by some of the responses on this thread that there are some coaches that will feel that won't happen. But it is.

I apologize to those I offended. I appreciate the help those that did. The rest, time will tell...

 

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@Uber, dude, you're taking some things out of context and you some of your assumptions are incorrect as well. It's understandable because my posts were bit a and pieces as I said previously about trying to illustrate a point which I admittedly didn't do a good job of.

Yes, my DD did play for the coach two seasons before she reached high school age. Yes she did play for the coach last year as a freshman when brought up by the coach on occasions.

No, I am not a crazy parent but if I believe in something, I will defend it. I believe in my DD as I would hope any parent would. We were reasonable with our concerns, we offered reasonable options like meeting the catching coach to discuss what's been instructed and why, and we asked questions without answers.

I would expect if a coach sees an a kid make a fielding error, they would instruct what and how to field it correctly and why a method is performed in a manner. That there is some logic and rational behind it. Especially if the kid ask why. This would at least provide an understanding for the kid so not only do they perform but also understand which would make them better players. As a parent, I would expect an expert to be able to do that in any field let alone coaching. I don't think that's too much to ask.

And yes, I have coached, not softball though. And I personally don't subscribe to the idea that because someone becomes a coach that they somehow get some sort of divine intelligence that magically puts them above anyone else.

And yes, avoiding issues regardless what they are be it addictions, money, job, etc. is an act of cowardice. It may be the best course of action this time but still cowardice. Hiding isn't an answer, the issue no matter what it is goes unresolved.

We will play it out and see what happens. And there's really no axe to grind. My frustration was more my inability to convey the idea that I was using a personal example to illustrate and it blew up in my face. I was not trying to bash the HS coach (which I ended up doing inadvertently) as much as demonstrating the perplexity kids are getting into when getting input from multiple sources. Using the personal example (situation with the HS coach) that the most logical thing to do is follow the greatest expertise. And others involved (again logically) understand and incorporate that expertise. The personal example was trying to show unnecessary and even unreasonable roadblock inserted into that learning process which puts the kid in difficult and conflicting situations. And then it spiraled out of control.

And by the responses, some caught on and some didn't. I believe some agree and some don't. These girls today are not just learning better skills through better training, but the serious ones are learning how to evaluate as their knowledge grows. I actually communicated with a west coast coach who said it becoming more common that the expertise of the player in specialty positions is surpassing that of the coach. I can tell by some of the responses on this thread that there are some coaches that will feel that won't happen. But it is.

I apologize to those I offended. I appreciate the help those that did. The rest, time will tell...

lol, what did I take out of context? You said in bits and pieces, You got into the coaches face, Had a meeting with the coach and AD, set up a meeting with the coach and catching coach. You said she wont change for the coach, you talk about cutting the coach, the coach moving her was cowardice. Your DD is a soph, and played JV last year. That sounds crazy to me, lots of drama involving one kid who hasnt played a year at varsity yet, and none of it has to do with anything more then catching mechanics lol.

Good luck to you, I can already tell high school ball isnt any fun for you, try and not ruin it for your DD.

 

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And then.... there was silence. ;&

 

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lol, what did I take out of context? You said in bits and pieces, You got into the coaches face, Had a meeting with the coach and AD, set up a meeting with the coach and catching coach. You said she wont change for the coach, you talk about cutting the coach, the coach moving her was cowardice. Your DD is a soph, and played JV last year. That sounds crazy to me, lots of drama involving one kid who hasnt played a year at varsity yet, and none of it has to do with anything more then catching mechanics lol.

Good luck to you, I can already tell high school ball isnt any fun for you, try and not ruin it for your DD.

Parents......

 

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been a funny read...... I went back and read the last 5-6 pages. It's hard to make blanket statements about right and wrong, very rarely would two scenario's be exactly the same. I'll add this we were doing base running stuff last night at practice and the head coach tells my dd who was on 3rd " down in Foul back in Foul" " Down in foul, Back in Foul. MD

 

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been a funny read...... I went back and read the last 5-6 pages. It's hard to make blanket statements about right and wrong, very rarely would two scenario's be exactly the same. I'll add this we were doing base running stuff last night at practice and the head coach tells my dd who was on 3rd " down in Foul back in Foul" " Down in foul, Back in Foul. MD

Down in foul back in foul is correct in fastpitch softball, incorrect in baseball. The location of the 3rd baseman suggests you come back in softball in foul. As did coach Hutch of Michigan at a clinic I attended a few years back and if you go on the sportskool website and watch Candrea talk about leading off at 3rd he suggests the same thing. Of course I can see the point of view of coming back in fair, to block the catchers throw, but I've been around to many catchers that will just paste the runner between the shoulder blades just for trying to block their throwing lane. Come back in foul, tough tag for the 3rd baseman nobody gets drilled by the catcher lol.

I teach out in foul back in foul lol

 

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well you uninformed so and so ---don't you have any idea of you my DD"s base running coach is ?


















HAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA MD

 

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:lmao: I walked into that one MD lol

well you uninformed so and so ---don't you have any idea of you my DD"s base running coach is ?


















HAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA MD

 

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I teach out in foul back in foul lol

As well as most of us since they should be in foul for the lead off;&