Is this appropriate or normal for the opposing team to do this?

[NotDeaf]

We been around the tournament circuit for just a few years. But this is the first time I?ve seen this being done in the open. As most softball fields are lined with fencing, all the way down the field, thus the dugouts openings are pretty close together. Our pitching coach is giving signs to our catcher to rely to the pitcher, on which pitch would the best to use, this is all normal.

Here?s the question. Is it normal for the opposing team (Like their pitcher and catcher) to watch our coach give out the signs and then they relay them to her coach, standing on 3rd, which tells the batter what?s coming.

 

[SheThrowsHeat]

In my opinion it only shows the character of the coach and it tells me that the coach, team, and fans do not have enough faith in their girls to hit the ball so they resort to a form of cheating.

 

[wvanalmsick]

Stealing signs has always been part of the game. You see this mostly at the younger ages because the younger age groups think it is all about winning and not developing a girl to be a good hitter.

You rarely see this at the older age groups.

But.......as a coach who is getting their signs stolen, you need to have a back-up system and a back-up to the back- up.

 

[Chad Strahler]

Had this happen to us this weekend and it's 18u. My opinion is if the ladies holler out pitches and location then that's part of the game but when a coach calls it out then it's pretty pathetic as a coach to do that. Shows no class...

 

[snoman76]

Is it cheating? I don't think so. How many coaches watch the opposing teams 3rd base coach and try to pick up their signs to the batter? It's not really any different but it's how the information is passed on to your players. If you're smart enough to figure out the opposing teams signs then you should come up with a system to relay it to your players so no one knows.


I will add that I'm not smart enough to do any of that.. haha.

 

[cjs]

Coach Lawson at Kentucky camp told all the girls that she expects everyone on her team to try to pick signs from the opposing team, it is something that is part of the game just as much as it is part of the game to try to figure out how not to get your signs picked. I do agree that some sort of system to notify the players on the field and not give away the fact that you have picked their signs is the best way to do it, but this is no different than figuring out that a pitcher changes her grip before she throw a change up or grunst when she throw hard pitches and doesn't when she throws off speed.

 

[Chad Strahler]

Let me actually say how he was doing it was not classy I can see picking signs for sure but he was vocally calling out on the field. And to me that's not sportsmanlike.

 

[coachjwb]

Wristband signal systems are always an option.

 

[SheThrowsHeat]

I still go back to my point that if you can't beat them with pure talent and heart then you need to go back to the practice field and get better not try to get on top by knowing what they are throwing your hitter or what offensive scheme they are going to pull. How does knowing what is coming making a better player? Just my .02.

 

[coachjwb]

Some players are going to steal signs and many will argue it's part of the game, and I get it though I never encouraged my players to do it. I am not a fan of youth coaches stealing signs, and it absolutely shouldn't be coming from parents or others not even playing the game. If players do steal a sign, it's one of those unwritten rules of the game that they shouldn't be yelling it out for multiple reasons, not the least of which are that it defeats the purpose and you're increasing the risk of "retaliation".

 

[wow]

Agree its part o the game. At the younger ages what the fastball change up gonna get you? During the WCWS there was commentary about the Oregon coach watching the pitcher to see what her grip was. He did not need the sign, just a glimpse of how the ball was held. The point is, isn't it part of the game to figure out what the opposing team is gonna do? Thats why you see shifts in defense, batters up on the plate, and watching for signs. As long as parents don't start yelling out pitches and locations, and there is noting outside of the rules of the game accept it or come up with a better signal system! Its a game within a game!

 

[GeneralsDad]

I personally see nothing wrong with it. If your signs are being picked that's on you. Agree it's all part of the game. Also agree with Coachjwb, that a system with multiple options to call a play or pitch is a good place to start. As for parents yelling out plays, my guess is the good hitters tune out the world when they are in the box. They already have a plan of attack, and nothing said by parents or coaches registers with them.

 

[Buxfn1]

Stealing signs has always been part of the game. You see this mostly at the younger ages because the younger age groups think it is all about winning and not developing a girl to be a good hitter.

You rarely see this at the older age groups.

But.......as a coach who is getting their signs stolen, you need to have a back-up system and a back-up to the back- up.[/Q

This happens at every level. It is not about player development or cheating. This year at the college world series, there were teams that relayed every call from the catcher to their coaches. When a girl was on second, she would give the same signals the catcher gave to pitcher so that it could be used to determine a pattern. It is part of the game and coaches should develop a system that is hard to crack for this very reason. It's the reason "dummy calls" and "indicators" were developed in the first place.

 

[Chad Strahler]

Agree its part o the game. At the younger ages what the fastball change up gonna get you? During the WCWS there was commentary about the Oregon coach watching the pitcher to see what her grip was. He did not need the sign, just a glimpse of how the ball was held. The point is, isn't it part of the game to figure out what the opposing team is gonna do? Thats why you see shifts in defense, batters up on the plate, and watching for signs. As long as parents don't start yelling out pitches and locations, and there is noting outside of the rules of the game accept it or come up with a better signal system! Its a game within a game!

What makes it different for parents to call them out vs coaches? No different. It's not against the rules either for parents to do this. I don't disagree 100% as it is part of the game.

 

[Dad of Daughters]

What makes it different for parents to call them out vs coaches? No different. It's not against the rules either for parents to do this. I don't disagree 100% as it is part of the game.

Parents = watch the game and cheer for DD's team and DD, preferably in that order.

 

[Chad Strahler]

Parents = watch the game and cheer for DD's team and DD, preferably in that order.

Yea realize that but it's not breaking rules.

 

[coachjwb]

Not breaking the rules, but extremely classless ... just my opinion ... parents should not be inserting themselves in their children's games against other children ... seriously ...

 

[cobb_of_fury]

A lot of things are not against the rules but just shouldn't be done -
This is one of them.
The idea is for the girls to be able to learn to anticipate and read pitches it's just a distraction to have the coach - Or worse yet the parents yelling what pitch they think is coming.
The worst part is It does nothing to make the batter better and that should be a coaches only goal.

 

[hpifm]

Like it or not, stealing signs has been part of the game forever. Why do you think the Pro's review game films? They can determine defensive plays and change their calls at the line. The problems here come with what AGE the girls are, and their skill levels. Ineveitably, the younger girls will have two, or three pitch selections. Some can and will hit their marks, but not all. As they progress, and their skills develop, that will change. The coaches should learn not to be constant with their pitch calls. I remember one game WE were called out for stealing signs. How hard was it when the coach called "fastball, fastball, change up, fastball" on every batter? It had nothing to do with" stealing signs", just learning HIS routine.
If it is so wrong, why do college coaches tell their players to "keep an eye out"? They can usually tell where a catcher sets up as to the location of the called pitch. JMO

 

[daboss]

I've always had mixed emotions on this subject and have been studying the responses from everyone in an effort to form a concrete decision on the matter. Thank you everyone for making me more confused than before.

It is not against the rules. Let's agree with that one. Can it give you an edge? Yes. Can it be prevented? Yes. Is it classless or proper etiquette to actively steal signs? Of course I'l take the political answer here and say it is in the eyes of the beholder. Should you be upset because your signs are being stolen? Uh maybe but why didn't you plan for this and have a plan B as suggested? Look, it's going to happen. I still don't understand why a team that has locked on to the opponent's signs want to advertise it. Keep your mouth shut and exploit it as long as you can before getting caught. lol. The only thing worse than getting caught with your pants down by not having a backup plan after having your signs discovered is to change the signs in mid stream and make the defense look silly by reacting to the old signs at the wrong moment. It's a 2-way street with no checkpoints.

Unwritten rules of courtesy say you don't do it. Again, it's not against the rules. This subject has been debated since the game started and until a rule declares it unsportsmanlike it'll probably be in the top 5 of all time debatable subjects. In life we learn how to handle adversity. This is one of those we need to learn how to cope with and keep our dignity. Let's assume every coach in the future has concerns about how they are received by others and will carry themselves at the highest level. Okay, I tried and laughed at that one too.