ASA Tournament John Wells Memorial - "Super Six" - ASA "A" Eastern National Qualifier - June 4-6, 2010

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I thought it was all done first class. Our team had traveled in and we never took the field. We were on the hook for the one night but since Rick used the forecast and the conditions into account made the condition and saved our parents over 2K by calling it early. Glad he did what he did when he could.

Thanks Coach Sherman on behalf of all the families of the Buckeye Heat- McGhee team.

 

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How were the fields? We have never played in Zainsville. Don't want to play on old slowpitch fields, or fields with no fences to protect my parents and players.

Just wanting some early feedback.

 

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We played our 2 games at Riverside location in the back on field #6. Field itself was fine. Fencing all the way around field-everyone was protected. Draw back was 300ft. fences.

 

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We never got to play but the Riverside complex seemed very nice. Went to Perry on Sat and got washed out again before our first game. Perry complex itself looked very nice; however there appeared to be was no space whatsoever to warm up before the game. All diamonds had fences that I saw all around.

 

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The refund issue has been decided. All coaches with teams entered into the JWM have been sent an E-mail with the refund policy.

Everyone takes a financial hit when you get this kind of rain. The families have motel expenses (my wife and I along with 8 of the families from my team had the motel expense on Friday night). The motels took a hit when everyone pulled out at 11:00 on Saturday. The umpires lost revenue they were anticipating. Steak N Shake, that supports the tournament by providing coupons for the particpants, had extra staff hired for Friday and Saturday. The helmet painters from Kentucky went home with little or no money. The T-shirt people made next to nothing. Plain and simple, when a softball tournament gets rained out, lots of people get a really bad deal.

Coach Rick Sherman

 

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I blame the Memorial Golf Tournament. ;&

 

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Well yes many aspects were financial losses but with what was kept out of the tournament fees and the gates fee. Somebody made out. 2inning game=$180 plus gate fee for 11 parents x 20 (or more)=220+180=400 breaks down to 200.00 per inning (and that is just one team so double that and someone made 800 on 2 innings-if that is what umps get paid I want in on that deal) Even without the parent/gate fees that is still 360 for a 2 inning game. On a field they should be ashamed to play a tournament on.

 

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I would like to simply post that I have no problem with the fact that mother nature intervened and there is not much anyone can do about it! I understand most posts concerning refunding and tend to agree! But I would like to state that my only concern is directed to player and fan safety issues. Upon arriving at the Armco fields I quickly realized there was a significant safety issue with the fields. There was absolutely no fencing to protect the players or fans on several on the fields and the other had minimal protection. To not provide fencing to at the very least protect the players is uncalled for!!! In my opinion these fields are un playable, certainly at this level of play! The Riverside fields were fine and I did not attend the others. I would also like to say thank you to the Holiday-Inn Express which went above and beyond it's duties to keep so many people happy under the circumstances relating to the weather, great job!

Jeff is absolutely right about the Holiday-Inn Express. The whole place was wonderful and they did an amazing job. Yes, it did stink to pay a $10.00 gate fee with only 2 innings played that I actually never got to see.

 

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I just found out we are not receiving a full refund for our 10u team that was in the John Wells tournament. Our kids never even played an inning! I call that a little unfair!! Charge the teams that played ,but teams that didn't even step on the field, deserve a full refund!

 

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I just found out we are not receiving a full refund for our 10u team that was in the John Wells tournament. Our kids never even played an inning! I call that a little unfair!! Charge the teams that played ,but teams that didn't even step on the field, deserve a full refund!

Especially after keeping all the gate fees on top of it. Our team didn't play a single inning either but got washed out ten minutes before our first scheduled game. We had been there for an hour and a half warming up so naturally all the parents, grandparents, older brothers, wives, etc. were there and had paid gate fees.

We paid $450 entry fee plus another $200 in gate fees = total $650 and played zero games. Getting back $300 and losing $350.

By way of comparison we paid $300 entry fee to the Lancaster Early Bird, no gate fees, and played 5 games. In other words, it cost us $50 bucks more to not play a single game!

I understand TD having to recoup unrecoverable expenses, but these numbers don't add up.

 

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Ya , our 12s played 4innings sat morning then came the rain, so we had atleast 20 parents who paid the weekend pass fees and we were only there for 4inn, I think they had enough to cover their expenses! I think its fair to keep enough to cover umpire fees but as a whole its not fair to keep all that money from teams who never stepped on the field, TD have to expect to take a loss when mother nature strikes like that. Teams and parents already took a loss for gas, hotels and gate fees. Is it fair the TD isn't going to take a loss as well?

 

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we got back 270 dollars for 2 innings of play. i think its totally ridiculous that a full refund wasnt given. If thats the way it is i doubt we will ever play another tournament in zanesville. i just cannot be convinced no matter what that there wasnt enough money made to recoup losses. As stated above look at all the money parents and fans are out. we had to take losses. the tournament should too. This situation needs to be made right.

 

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I am not trying to offend anyone here. I have no connection whatsoever to this tournament and I am not defending any decisions, good or bad.

I am noticing that the complaints on the refund are coming from relatively new members. In travel sports, organizations put on tournaments as a way to raise funds for their organization. A lot goes into putting on a tournament, especially a large tournament. Lots of supplies and materials have to be bought and paid for upfront that cannot be returned. Concession food bought cannot be returned. The facilities must be paid for, whether games were played or not. There is a thread buried deep in the archives of OFC that goes into detail about the costs of running a tournament. I don't want to get into that on this thread.

What I do want to talk about is the Weather policy and Refund Policy for a tournament. Below are Weather and Refund info taken from 3 different organizations that each hold huge tournaments here in Ohio. I have deleted any facility or organization name to provide some anonymity. However, the old timers can figure out which ones they are. Notice that they are all the same and that this tournament is in-line with these policies. He might not have posted his refund policy, but he is following "industry standard".

WEATHER
The Tournament Committee can and will control as many aspects as possible to insure that your team has the best playing experience possible, but weather is not one of them. In the event of inclement weather, The (Facility deleted)and the Tournament Committee will do their very best to get all games in - the grounds staff will be prepared with adequate materials for getting wet fields into playing shape. But, you are applying to the tournament realizing that the Tournament Committee reserves the right to alter this event in any manner we see fit to accomplish the mission of showcasing the softball athletes with the maximum number of games possible under the circumstances. Coaches will receive a rain line phone number at check-in.

The will (Organization deleted) have the use of the (Facilities deleted) for Sunday if need be due to inclement weather and reserve the right to play out the 14U, 12U, and 10U age groups there as opposed to bringing the remaining teams to (Facility deleted).

REFUNDS
If the tournament is rained out in its entirety, refunds will be based on:

(Entry Fees minus Non-Recoverable Costs minus Games Played) divided by (Paid Entries)

Every inclement weather situation is impossible to predict and create a refund policy for.
The (Organization deleted) will make every attempt to be fair to teams that are not able to complete their 5-game minimum, but will not be able to define refund formulas for these situations before hand.

Please allow (2) to (4) weeks for an inclement weather refund.

Rain Delays

: Should rain delay a game, the game will be resumed where stopped at a time determined by tournament officials. The only exception will be that any game called prior to the end of the first inning will be restarted. No members of the participating teams are allowed to leave the area until the umpires have officially called the game. Game times may be adjusted, and/or shortened, to complete the tournament or get back on schedule. THE PHONE NUMBER FOR RAIN DELAY INFORMATION IS (deleted). This line will be updated asap during rain delays. Emails and website updates will also be used to communicate tournament updates.

Rain-out Policy: If no games are able to be played, a partial refund may be provided to each team. Full refunds are not possible due to the expenses of the tournament which must be paid prior to the first game played. No refunds will be given if each team has played at least one game. If extensive rain causes a delay that makes it impossible to complete the double elimination format, the tournament may be changed to single elimination. Likewise, if weather causes the tournament to be canceled after games have been played, a point system will be used to determine the winners. The number of games completed by all teams will determine the number of games used for the point system (ie., if every team has completed 2 games, but half have completed 3 games, only the first 2 games will be used for points). Points will be awarded as follows: Five points for each run scored and one point for each hit.​

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Weather: The Tournament Committee can and will control as many aspects as possible to insure that your team has the best playing experience possible, but weather is not one of them. In the event of inclement weather, The (Organization deleted) and the Tournament Committee will do their very best to get all games in, the grounds staff will be prepared with adequate materials for getting wet fields into playing shape. But, you are applying to the tournament realizing that the Tournament Committee reserves the right to alter this event in any manner we see fit to accomplish the mission of playing the maximum number of games possible under the circumstances. Coaches will receive a rain line phone number at check-in.

Refunds: If the tournament is rained out in its entirety, refunds will be based on:(Entry Fees minus Non- Recoverable Costs minus Games Played) divided by (Paid Entries)
Every inclement weather situation is impossible to predict and create a refund policy for. (Organization deleted) will make every attempt to be fair to teams that are not able to complete their 6-game minimum, but will not be able to define refund formulas for these situations before hand. Please allow (2) to (4) weeks for an inclement weather refund.

 

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Here is part of an E-mail that went to all of the coaches of teams entered into the John Wells Memorial. This may help to put the refund policy for the JWM into perspective.

Coach:

The refund checks went in the mail this morning. You should have yours in the next 2 to 3 days.

I have searched the refund policies of other tournaments to see if we had set up a plan that was out of line with what others are doing. I think we are right in line with most tournaments; better than some, not as good as others and about the same as most.

Here is the refund policy for the Farley Memorial Tournament. [This is a little less user friendly than our policy.]
$425.00 tournament entry fee.
Refund policy due to weather: 5-7 games played -$0; 2-4 games played -- $150.00; 0-1 games played -- $200.00.


Here is the refund policy for the Stingrays Tournament. [This is basically identical to the JWM. The only thing we did was prorate the refund so that the umpire costs were assets to the teams that at least got on the field to play all or part of a game or games.]
If the tournament is rained out in its entirety, refunds will be based on: (Entry Fees minus Non-Recoverable Costs minus Games Played) divided by Paid Entries. Every inclement weather situation is impossible to predict and create a refund policy for. The Ohio Stingrays will make every attempt to be fair to teams that are not able to complete their 5-game minimum, but will not be able to define refund formulas for those situation before hand.

Here is the refund policy for the GAPSS Tournament. [This is much different than the JWM]
If no games are able to be played, a partial refund may be provided to each team. Full refunds are not possible due to the expenses of the tournament which must be paid prior to the first game played. No refunds will be given if each team has played at least one game.

Here is the refund policy for the Loudonville Tournament. [Somewhat different, but overall fairly comparable.]
No games played 88% refund
1 game played 57% refund
2 games played 28% refund

I used these last three tournaments because they are ones that I am attending and that I have no problem with their refund policy. There are two other tournaments that I will be in that I was not able to get the refund policy.

Our policy you received in an earlier E-mail. We took the total income (49 Entry fees and the gate fees collected) and subtracted the non-recoverable expenses. We then returned all money left to the teams that had paid an Entry fee based on the number of games started. There was no way to return gate fees to the individuals who paid them. We simply divided that amongst all the teams that paid to enter the tournament.

This information does not make our policy right nor does it make it wrong. It just makes it like many other tournaments.

If you are one of the people that does not intend to go to a tournament unless they guarantee a full refund, I think you will have trouble making out your schedule. I would guess you will be limited to small, local tournaments that get fields for free and have minimal money invested in the first place.

Coach Rick Sherman

 

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Bekaybe:

I've got to admit that you have the best line on the thread. (And that was exactly what I was thinking as the rain came down.)

Coach Rick Sherman

 

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All I'm saying is, teams that never even stepped on a field, deserve a full refund.

 

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If you think that, then you have never run a tourney. And by the way, we were not there so I have no dog in this fight. I would say that you need to read the policy before you play. If there is not one, then buyer beware. If you do not read the policy - then oh well. If you want to play GAPPS, Stingrays etc then you take a chance of mother nature. My only suggestion for you is to move to Texas (I never even looked at the weather) - they did not give any refunds because:

a. it hardly ever rained
b. when it did, you play 10 months a year so they just rescheduled.

 

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As a college coach, I have become acquainted with Coach Sherman thru watching his teams and attending his tournaments. I can assure you that he is a man of great integrity and is definitely not in the travel ball business for the money......

 

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you got us good...never again.... i hope everyone boycotts john wells memorial tournament

 

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OK - So I didn't bother to read this entire post...as I'm sure I know how it is going - Our Stingrays team didn't get to play an inning...as a lot of teams I'm sure.... I would have liked to get our entire tournament fee back, but I know that is unrealistic - A lot of time and effort goes into putting these tournaments on...there are upfront expenses and since most of these events are put on as fundraisers to keep program's alive I am all for them making money...regardless of the weather. I know that our tournament (stingrays) has been brought up a couple of times in this - The main difference, and my biggest problem, is that the Stingrays tournament does not charge a gate fee. I can stomach losing our entry fee as a team...that is a risk you take with fastpitch in Ohio...especially in late spring....However I believe something should be put into all of the refund policies to refund the gate fees to the parents and relatives that paid, upfront, for the weekend - Turn your bracelet in...state your team name and age, and get a refund based on games played...The parents already dish out enough (both money and cash)....Anything the TD's can do to help would go a long way.