ASA Tournament John Wells Memorial - "Super Six" - ASA "A" Eastern National Qualifier - June 4-6, 2010

[default]

OK - So I didn't bother to read this entire post...as I'm sure I know how it is going - Our Stingrays team didn't get to play an inning...as a lot of teams I'm sure.... I would have liked to get our entire tournament fee back, but I know that is unrealistic - A lot of time and effort goes into putting these tournaments on...there are upfront expenses and since most of these events are put on as fundraisers to keep program's alive I am all for them making money...regardless of the weather. I know that our tournament (stingrays) has been brought up a couple of times in this - The main difference, and my biggest problem, is that the Stingrays tournament does not charge a gate fee. I can stomach losing our entry fee as a team...that is a risk you take with fastpitch in Ohio...especially in late spring....However I believe something should be put into all of the refund policies to refund the gate fees to the parents and relatives that paid, upfront, for the weekend - Turn your bracelet in...state your team name and age, and get a refund based on games played...The parents already dish out enough (both money and cash)....Anything the TD's can do to help would go a long way.

That's my whole point. I would be okay eating $150 to cover upfront expenses and trouble, but when you factor in the $200 we paid in gate fees on top of it, it becomes something less than fair in my opinion.

I do feel bad for everyone including the TD in this situation. I am also not so unreasonable to expect him to not be paid for expenses and something for his trouble. However as I said on the phone I don't agree this is a fair resolution.

 

[default]

One or the other. Team fees or gate fees. Not both. That is what is not fair. Where we were Saturday morning there were two games going on. If they were all in their first game there was 720.00 kept from just those two teams in entry fees add in the 200 in parent/family fees per team puts you at another 800 making the income from those two games alone 1520. That doesnt count any of the other games/team that is just 4 teams out of the whole tournament.

 

[default]

Especially after keeping all the gate fees on top of it. Our team didn't play a single inning either but got washed out ten minutes before our first scheduled game. We had been there for an hour and a half warming up so naturally all the parents, grandparents, older brothers, wives, etc. were there and had paid gate fees.

We paid $450 entry fee plus another $200 in gate fees = total $650 and played zero games. Getting back $300 and losing $350.

By way of comparison we paid $300 entry fee to the Lancaster Early Bird, no gate fees, and played 5 games. In other words, it cost us $50 bucks more to not play a single game!

I understand TD having to recoup unrecoverable expenses, but these numbers don't add up.

Buy tournament insurance next time. If my vacation gets wiped out by a hurricane I don't get a cent back unless I would have purchased insurance.

 

[default]

Ok, question. Since I am unaware of such things. What were the non-recoverable costs? Obviously umpire fees. Some food money but most items (any drinks, unopened chips, uncooked/refridg/frozen meat, candy, and such) should be able to be stored and used at the next tournament. I would hope that the fields weren't rented well at least the not the ones with no absolutely no fences beyond the bench they were an embarrassment to tournaments. I saw one guy digging a ditch to drain water in the dugout area. I just dont see how there was no profit at the rates given back. I would like to understand better. Then maybe many of us wont feel so ripped off.

 

[default]

Why not list the unrecoverable expenses.

They sure aren't paying umpire not to umpire.

Keeping gate fees thats rediculous. in the above example the tournament keeping $350 out of $650 fro a team that didn't play. Its the tournament director that should have bought tournament insurance not the teams that way he could recover his unrecoverable expenses. I can see keeping some money but not that much.

 

[default]

I had my say in an earlier post. I dont agree at all with the way things were handled, but whats done is done. The decisions have been made on how teams will be refunded and all the complaining in the world is more than likely not going to change the outcome. Reading past posts this appears to have been a well run tournament in the past, although i certainly do question some of the venues used as far as safety for players and fans. Always remember that the power is with the people. If this is the way things are going to be handled then boycott this tournament in the future. After all, without teams to play there would be no tournament. I for one will always inquire about gate fees beforehand and try to the best of my ability to avoid them. To me gate fees are a ripoff in their own right. Nuff said. Live and learn.

 

[default]

Unrecoverable expenses I could come up with

Trophies
tournement t-shirts
ASA fee's
food that can go bad
Umpire scheduler
Lodging and food if needed for umpires
Park rental
Field dry ( Very expensive)

Just some that come to mind and I'm sure I'm missing some.

Looks like Rick's refund policy is very fair compared to what I've seen at other tournaments. As far as gate fee have never seen anyone refund it. Sounds like alot of you may be new to travel ball. So a word of advise get used to it this is very standard or exceeding what most tournaments will refund.

Rick keep up your hard work we appreciate your commitment to the travel ball community
Warren Wolff
12U Outlaws

 

[default]

Unrecoverable expenses I could come up with

Trophies
tournement t-shirts
ASA fee's
food that can go bad
Umpire scheduler
Lodging and food if needed for umpires
Park rental
Field dry ( Very expensive)

Just some that come to mind and I'm sure I'm missing some.

Looks like Rick's refund policy is very fair compared to what I've seen at other tournaments. As far as gate fee have never seen anyone refund it. Sounds like alot of you may be new to travel ball. So a word of advise get used to it this is very standard or exceeding what most tournaments will refund.

Rick keep up your hard work we appreciate your commitment to the travel ball community
Warren Wolff
12U Outlaws

Trophies are recoverable becasue they are saved and reused for another tourney. Might be minor cost to re-engrave, but minor.

Did your mom ever ask if everyone else was jumping off cliffs would it be okay for you?

A raw deal is a raw deal regardless what happened at other tournaments in the past.

I will say this: he didn't mess around getting the refund checks out. Got ours yesterday.

 

[default]

Why not list the unrecoverable expenses.

They sure aren't paying umpire not to umpire.

Keeping gate fees thats rediculous. in the above example the tournament keeping $350 out of $650 fro a team that didn't play. Its the tournament director that should have bought tournament insurance not the teams that way he could recover his unrecoverable expenses. I can see keeping some money but not that much.

Just how would you reimburse gate fees? If you ran the gate fees, would you require your gate keepers to write down everyone's name and team affiliation? Some teams did not even get into the parking lot while some did.

 

[default]

Madhornet
So you were able to take one thing off list of many things. You really are not aware of what it takes and costs to run a tournement. I guess they could reuse trophies next year or this year and redo engraving if he did not already order trophies for other tournaments. Which he may have already done since you get a better deal with volume.

Just think it's a shame the way people will jump on someone when they are down. JMHO

 

[default]

Were the gate fees collected by the Tournament/TD? If they were collected by the city or the park, then you need to grill the city or park not the TD. Take Berliner for example, I had to pay to get in and I'm the coach. Also, heard stories of them trying to charge players to get in when they drove themselves. This is not a TD issue, but a greedy city issue.

Also, trophies are a non-recoverable expense wether you use them for a future tournament or not. If this is your last tournament of the year, you still have to pay the bill. The trophy place isn't going to wait until 2011 for you to reuse the trophies before they want payment. Umpires can also be an expense, we compensate our umpires if their first game of the day is rained out and they had to drive to the park. Then we pay them a small retention sum if we are in an extended rain delay to keep them at the park and ready to go the moment we can resume games. Don't think that just because no games are being played the meter stops. I do not know what happened at the John Wells Mem, but to expect a 100% refund is unrealistic just as a 50% refund for no games played is unfair.

 

[default]

I also know that NSA and ASA have rain out policies as far as refunds so everyone knows upfront of risks of not getting 100 0/0 refund
I think NSA is 75 0/0 refund if no games played and 50 0/0 if 2 and 0 for 3games
Any started game is also considered a game.

Not sure of ASA's sure it is very close to this.

I suggest you try to find a tournement that will give 100 0/0 refund for rain outs otherwise you will never be happy.

Oh by the way good luck with that.

 

[default]

It is quite apparent from some of the posts that teams did a lousy job of explaining ALL of the costs of Travel Ball. The Team fee is just the beginning. The gate fees, the parking fees, the concessions, the team pizza parties at the hotel, gas for the car, and the hotels. A family can expect to paid at least $1500 per season in these incidentials.

Where money is concerned, I can understand everyone's complaints, especially in times like now, but travel softball is what it is. The only way that I see to improve summer softball in Ohio is to have a multi-field facility with a retractable roof. The chances of that happening are slim and none and slim just left town.

 

[default]

Let me put this another way. I understand all the other costs associated with travel ball. I also view things from an absolute standard, not a subjective one.

All we're getting here is speculation. The TD is not telling anyone "okay, here's what I took in, here are my expenses, here's what I'm keeping for my time and trouble, and here's what's left for everyone in the way of a refund". He's the only one with that information and he's not sharing it.

Instead what we are getting is, hey this is how other people handle the same situation, so that's what I'm doing, so deal with it. Personally, I don't think that is acceptable.

If you read my prior posts you would know also that I'm not trying to be unreasonable nor did I expect 100% money back. I just don't think keeping $350 of our money is acceptable when we got zero in return.

 

[default]

Madhornet
So you were able to take one thing off list of many things. You really are not aware of what it takes and costs to run a tournement. I guess they could reuse trophies next year or this year and redo engraving if he did not already order trophies for other tournaments. Which he may have already done since you get a better deal with volume.

Just think it's a shame the way people will jump on someone when they are down. JMHO

""Just think it's a shame the way people will jump on someone when they are down."""
That is the norm for some on this venue.

 

[default]

This is 4th year of travel ball. I understand completely the costs involved as stated above. They are many. But being made to lose money for nothing, zip, nada is not a cost that parents, fans and organizations should be forced to incur. People are stating that we shouldnt kick a TD when hes down, yet I feel thats exactly what happened in reverse order. ESPECIALLY is these tough economic times. I understand that there should be costs taken off for organizations that played a game or two. Rightly so. For teams however that didnt get to play at all I think its highly unfair to be charged anything. Its always the common people that have to be the loser from government on down to the trivial. Some on here have the notion that its ok for the commom folk to lose money just so long as the tournament and city come out ok. Thats rubbish. Maybe the poster above that said the Tournament should insure themselves for losses they incur has the right idea. Like I said before. Live and Learn.

 

[default]

Without tournaments, where would teams play???

No tournment should be made to show the "nuts and bolts" of the financial side of their tournament unless you are the government and want to get into everyone's business.

 

[default]

Given that the refund policy was known when teams signed up, and given that every reasonable effort was made to allow play, assuming the TD follows through in a reasonable time frame with the refunds, I have a hard time seeing where teams have anything to complain about.

 

[default]

Amen bear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[default]

Actually that isn't true. The refund policy was decided after the tournament was cancelled. Furthermore, the gate fees weren't made known until after the tournament fees were collected.

I know, I'm a whiner. Whatever, I'll eat it and smile.