No time left...Rules for STALLING

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I am not sure I understand the benefit of the +1

Here is an example:

Home team is batting, has the lead, and the time limit is approaching. If they play at a normal pace, they run the risk of making three quick outs before time expires. That would give the visitors another chance to bat again and perhaps take the lead. If they can waste time, the time limit will kick in while they're still at-bat. The game will be over and they will have won the game.

This scenario provides the home team with the incentive to stall. By stalling, they can essentially "take the bats out of the hands" of the other team, making it impossible for them to come back.

If one more inning is going to be played anyway (+1), then there is no incentive to employ stalling tactics. Doing so does not "take the bats out of the hands" of the opponent or eliminate the possibility of them coming back. A team has nothing to gain by stalling, thus the incentive to stall is eliminated.

We could go to 60 minutes, finish +1 but I think that would accomplish very little except in extremely rare cases.

I do agree that instances of stalling are fairly rare with the "finish the inning" format. Circumstances have to line up just right for a team to even be in a position to benefit by stalling in most games. In all of the tournaments I worked last year (about 12 tournaments, covering about 75 games) I can recall only one game where stalling was even an issue. As an umpire, I addressed it and we moved on.

 

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I like the 1 more full inning at clock time idea, if the game is close. We all want the girls playing the game. Sometimes it feels like we are using a Parking meter in the game, I think adding a full inning will keep us all from being towed away!

Winning vs Playing time...... give the playing time and play to win! I want to play the game the way it is meant to be played.

 

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Bretman - I echo what many have said, I think that's a great idea.

 

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So, your points are:

- Lot's of competetive softball games are decided at the end.

- Analogies to other sports that use a clock are invalid because those other sports often are decided at the end.

Huh? Talk about contradictory!

Not at all you simply seemed to suggest that softball games should be won early innings.....that is pretty much what your statement was and/or at least how I read it.

 

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Joe, I agree. Time limits are not any fun. Changes the whole game.

Problem with less guarenteed games is the fact of the money being spent by parents on travel cost and getting their monies worth in actually game time playing. You see a lot of 2 pool / single eliminations down South in the Georgia area. Less entry fees of course.

quaker: Actual game time playing would be more with three 7-inning games than four 5 or 6-inning games. Having time limits does not change the amount of daylight during the day. Having three 7-inning games instead of four 5 or 6-inning games will mean more actual ballplaying because now there is one fewer break in-between games. And 21 innings is still 21 innings, no matter how many games it's divided into.

 

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I agree Joe. To me it seems that 16u and 18u games go at 1:20 - 1:30 and with 1:45 time slots .... then the 16u and 18u should be able to finish and a TD has set aside time if one game went longer on another field, etc....

I'm a big believer in the fact of ties can happen in pool play. Been there done that when it hasn't been and it can throw things off for a TD so quick. Couple long inning games on one field and it is adjustment city... and when you do adjust... then teams got to pick up and go to another field and that usually upsets them just as well.

But, to me, the is no excuse for not giving 16u and 18u teams full 7 inning games. Even with 1:30 time slots.

I think it would be a good format as the older you get... the more playing time you get because usually at that age it is on and off the field... and not the constant coach's meetings when the DD's come in from the field and before they go back out.... that you see in the younger age groups. That's where time management by an umpire is needed.

 

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Welcome to travel softball.

Strict time limits must be enforced or the ripple effect across all the fields and all of the age groups by a single game running longer than the time allocated is tremendous. Not only do you delay the next game on that field (and every game on that field for the rest of the day) but now you have two teams and an umpire set that are off schedule effecting games on other fields as the ripples move out through the tournament. The next time slot is delayed for the two teams coming onto that field and then all of their games for the rest of the day. The tournament quickly descends into chaos with the final games being called for darkness.

The only answer to this is to increase the time allocated for each game and then play fewer games on any given day. This does not seem to be the trend in tournament ball. Early travel ball had with 4gg, then moved to 5gg and we are now starting to see 6+gg. Would you take your team to a tournament that offered 7 innings complete but only had a 3gg?

Most tournaments are using the 1.5 hour drop dead. Move off and get the next game started. I have been to tournaments that use a 2 hour time slot per game. However, this format is more typically used at the smaller tournaments. These tournaments usually have a more laid-back old-timey feel of laying on the grass in the summer.

You control the tournament by voting with your checks. Go to the tournaments that have the longer game time frames and the TDs will modify their product or demand 8gg tournaments and the TDs will respond.

This thread is talking about the sanctity of the game without time limits. That is not the game that we are currently playing in travel-ball unless you make it to the final game on Sunday. All the rest of the games have a time factor that must be acknowledged. To pretend that the clock is not ticking is like not slapping because baseball traditions do not allow it. This is softball and this is travel tournament ball, there is a clock, deal with it.

 

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And if that is the case than legal stalling of the clock to your advantage is part of the game. Gotta deal with that too. Goofy to say we should play but unwritten rules.

Simple, don't like stalling, get rid of the clock. I'm in favor of that. Otherwise keep the clock and acknowledge it's part of the game now.

Or I like Bretmans idea.

 

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bretman said,"Instead of a 75 minute (or whatever) "finish the inning" time limit, dial the clock back to 60 minutes. When the clock expires, you finish the inning you are in. Then, you play one more inning"

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Best idea yet. Keeps most games moving and keeps the scumbag time wasters from not settling it on the field.
Waisting time or "stalling" is NOT in the spirit of the rules. Its called sportsmanship, but the most people today have no clue what that even means.
Bad enough to have to settle a timeless game with a time limit, but to abuse that time privledge is poor sportsmanship..Bretmans version is EXACTLY how timed games should be run...Well done!

 

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I can't tell you how many teams and their players are completely worn out after playing two (2) games of back to back games... let alone the three games like I have in the Uniform Blowout. ALL 7 innings games. Just worn out.

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Sorry I don`t buy it. We ARE talking about youngsters here, are we not? Worn out after 2 or three back to back games????? Maybe if the pitcher and catcher did three back to back games in really hot weather, I could see fatigue becoming a factor, but no other position players should be tired. Being the father of a pitcher, I saw her pitch 3 straight games several times with seemingly no immediate negative effects.

 

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bretman said,"Instead of a 75 minute (or whatever) "finish the inning" time limit, dial the clock back to 60 minutes. When the clock expires, you finish the inning you are in. Then, you play one more inning"

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Best idea yet. Keeps most games moving and keeps the scumbag time wasters from not settling it on the field.
Waisting time or "stalling" is NOT in the spirit of the rules. Its called sportsmanship, but the most people today have no clue what that even means.
Bad enough to have to settle a timeless game with a time limit, but to abuse that time privledge is poor sportsmanship..Bretmans version is EXACTLY how timed games should be run...Well done!

A game shouldn't be won or lost because one team has more or less "spirit" than another. If it's a timed game than the clock is part of the game, period. Lets keep our heads out of the sand. Pity the poor coach who believes in the "spirit" of some unwritten rule that would like to make a pitching change late in a game but won't for fear of looking like they are stalling. Or maybe go to the mound or change the defense but can't for looking like a scumbag. Stupid. Play the game and if it's a timed game play it by the clock.

What is a "time privilege"?

Any of bretman's ideas would be better than what we are doing now.

 

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I can't tell you how many teams and their players are completely worn out after playing two (2) games of back to back games... let alone the three games like I have in the Uniform Blowout. ALL 7 innings games. Just worn out.

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Sorry I don`t buy it. We ARE talking about youngsters here, are we not? Worn out after 2 or three back to back games????? Maybe if the pitcher and catcher did three back to back games in really hot weather, I could see fatigue becoming a factor, but no other position players should be tired. Being the father of a pitcher, I saw her pitch 3 straight games several times with seemingly no immediate negative effects.

You must be talking a rec team. A travel team better not be worn out after playing two back to back games. My DD has caught them.

 

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You must be talking a rec team. A travel team better not be worn out after playing two back to back games. My DD has caught them.

I agree Musty...

I think the name "fastpitch" has good meaning and by limiting the pool play to some time limit is OK. Bretman's idea is by far the best I've heard... probably ever :cap:. Besides, how many have sat through brutal baseball games that played out either 7 or 9 innings? They are brutally slow

 

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Besides, how many have sat through brutal baseball games that played out either 7 or 9 innings? They are brutally slow

I agree. My son has played Knothole for years, and high school ball last year, and those games were agonizing to watch. Especially slow in comparison to fastpitch.

I hope some TD's try out Bretman's idea. It sounds like a very viable solution.

 

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I think some TD's will use Bretmans idea but not until next year, as this years tournaments are posted already. I believe that this is by far the best solution I have heard. I know that next years Danger Zone tournament will use this as a solution. I would of this year if it was not for the three field situation and daylight time being such a factor with the number of teams we have. Might even change it to a round robin so everybody plays each other and make it 90 minute game times, will have to wait till next year and see though. If the same teams come back, except for a few in the 14u bracket that move up, I can see it happening for sure. I think all will play 7 innings with 90 minute game times.

 

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Come back to the Danger Zone tourney next year? That depends on the quality of the bbq/fish fry you throw for us Static guys up in Maumee for the WS.

 

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I think some TD's will use Bretmans idea but not until next year, as this years tournaments are posted already. I believe that this is by far the best solution I have heard..

Not true, I am thinking of switching our tourny to this format. After all the TD can change the rules to better the tournament and for the teams involved.

 

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Not true, I am thinking of switching our tourny to this format. After all the TD can change the rules to better the tournament and for the teams involved.

"like button"

 

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I see nothing wrong with switching formats for this summer unless you have already sent out the rules to the teams. They didn't know what format you planned to use by your ads so why not? Go for it Danger 13u.

I like the idea Bretman.

People, remember that tourneys are for MAKING A PROFIT so the more teams you can handle on a weekend the more revenue for your efforts. Back in the day with adult Slowpitch, we would have "1-Pitch" tourneys where every batter went to the plate with a full count on them. You could normally play an entire game in 50 minutes or less, thus allowing more teams to play because we could get more games completed on each diamond.

Any gimmick a TD can use to fill their tourney and get the maximum amount of games played per diamond with the least amount of expense is exactly what they will do. It's a simple business decision. Anything less means less revenue and it IS about the money or you won't have tourneys to attend.

 

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I don't know what the $$$ numbers are, but I have to wonder how travel baseball does it. They are usually 2 hours or more between scheduled games. For that matter, college softball events are also 2 hours between games as well. Surely they are all making a profit.

I like bretmans's idea better than just finish the inning, but I would still rather TD's find a few more fields per tourney and play real 7 inning games. I dunno, maybe the $$$ numbers can't support it.