Overthrow at 1b

[Softballfarm]

At Lasers last weekend the batter bunted fair. The ball was fielded and the throw, originating from in front of the plate, got past the 1b and rolled, and rolled, and rolled eventually out of play in moderately deep RF. While the ball was rolling the batter-runner broke for 2b. Once the ball went out of play the umpire called "dead ball" and awarded the batter-runner 3b. I called time out and asked for an explanation. The ump stated "2 bases from the field...the runner was already at 1b when the ball rolled out of play." My argument was the runner was not at 1b when the throw was made and the ball rolled a mile before it eventually went past the fence and out of play. I believe the runner is awarded 1b and 2b. What is the rule?

I would also like to add that the umps at Lasers were very good but this particular ump was a jerk. He had a pompus nature about him that seemed to run counter from the spirit of the event. This was the 1st time in my coaching career anyone, let alone an umpire refused to shake my hand before a game. This happened at groundrules and his explanation was I had suntan lotion on and he didnt want to be accused of applying a foreign substance to the ball! It was embarrassing, at a youth event, to stand at home plate with my hand out with the ump refusing to shake it... but I was more embarassed for him.

Joe Nay
Thunder Elite 03

 

[Shane]

That surely makes for an uncomfortable beginning to a game. Can't help on the rule interp. but I look forward to an answer to the situation you presented.

 

[WSHEELY]

Joe, not an expert on the rules, but what is the difference if a ball is hit to short and even if the runner beats the throw and the ball sails high and goes out of play. The runner is only awarded second! The only thing I can think of is the runner is already on their way to second before the ball goes out of play which I believe then they would be awarded the extra base.

Bill

 

[backstop09]

I don't know about the other sanctioning bodies, but in NFHS/Ohio HS ball, it is two bases from the time the throw leaves the fielder's hand. NFHS rule book section references are 5-1-1-g3 and 8-4-3f . Not sure why the umpire would have awarded the girl 3rd base. Where she is when the the ball goes out of play is not relevant.

 

[BretMan2]

Two bases, from the runner's position at the time of the throw (when the ball left the fielder's hand).

Same ruling for all sanctions, both baseball and softball.

I assume that the batter-runner had not yet reached/touched first base when the throw was made. If so, then the award is second base.

You should have ponied up the $100 protest fee!

Which brings me to my annual rant on protest fees...By the book, there is not supposed to be a fee associated with filing a protest. If your tournament is charging one, they're doing that on their own, not because the sanctioning body tells them to.

TD's will tell you that they do this to "prevent abuse of the protest system". I understand about keeping games on schedule, and not wanting unplanned delays. But since filing a protest is the ONLY recourse for a coach who's team has been wronged by a misapplied rule (other than screaming and arguing), why should we make it difficult (expensive) to file one.

If the UIC is around, they can rule on the protest in fairly short fashion. Then the RIGHT call can be made, which should be everybody's goal to begin with. Is there really any downside to making the RIGHT call?

If coaches are filing frivolous protests, then they will be summarily dismissed upon review. All you've lost is the few minutes to call the UIC.

But if they're valid protests, it means that the umpire was wrong. And if the umpire was wrong, and the protest is upheld, then the umpire LEARNS something. Which means he probably won't make that same mistake again, which means that the protest procedure will actually help to IMPROVE umpiring over time.

My plea to TD's would be to make the protest procedure accessible to the teams, without charging an unnecessary fee.

 

[FastBat]

TD's will tell you that they do this to "prevent abuse of the protest system". I understand about keeping games on schedule, and not wanting unplanned delays. But since filing a protest is the ONLY recourse for a coach who's team has been wronged by a misapplied rule (other than screaming and arguing), why should we make it difficult (expensive) to file one.

I thought protest's could only be filed when an ump misinterpreted a rule, not because a coach/parent disagreed with umps judgement.

 

[BretMan2]

I thought protest's could only be filed when an ump misinterpreted a rule, not because a coach/parent disagreed with umps judgement.

Yes, that is correct.

I'm not seeing where I suggested otherwise.