Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching rules discussion... NOT for the faint-hearted.

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PART ONE OF THREE:

Taken from the 2008 ASA Official Rules of Softball.

For illustrative and clarification purposes only.

RULE 6 ? PITCHING REGULATIONS (FAST PITCH)

[FONT=&quot]Section 1. PRELIMINARIES.[/FONT]
Before starting the delivery (pitch), the pitcher shall comply with the following:
A. The pitcher may not take the pitching position on the pitcher?s plate without
possession of the ball.
B. The pitcher shall not be considered in the pitching position unless the catcher
is in position to receive the pitch.
C. Both feet must be on the ground within the 24-inch length of the pitcher?s
plate. The shoulders shall be in line with first and third bases.
1. (Male) The pitcher shall take a position with their pivot foot in contact
with the pitcher?s plate and their non-pivot foot in contact with or behind
the pitcher?s plate.
2. (Female) The pitcher shall take a position with both feet in contact with
the pitcher?s plate.
D. While on the pitcher?s plate, the pitcher shall take the signal or appear to
take a signal with the hands separated. The ball must remain in either the
glove or pitching hand.
E. The pitcher shall bring the hands together for not less than one second and
not more than 10 seconds before releasing it,
1. (Male) If the pitcher decides to pitch with the non-pivot foot to the rear
and off the pitcher?s plate, a backward step may be taken before,
simultaneous with or after the hands are brought together. The pivot
foot must remain in contact with the pitcher?s plate at all times prior to
the forward step.
2. (Female) Both feet must remain in contact with the pitcher?s plate at all
times prior to the forward step.
[FONT=&quot]Section 2. STARTING THE PITCH.[/FONT]
The pitch starts when one hand is taken off the ball after the hands have been
placed together.
[FONT=&quot]Section 3. LEGAL DELIVERY.[/FONT]
A. The pitcher must not make any motion to pitch without immediately delivering
the ball to the batter.
B. The pitcher must not use a pitching motion in which, after bringing the hands
together, the pitcher removes one hand from the ball, and returns the ball to
both hands.
C. The pitcher must not make a stop or reversal of the forward motion after
separating the hands.
D. The pitcher must not make two revolutions of the arm on the windmill pitch.
A pitcher may drop the arm to the side and to the rear before starting the
windmill motion.
E. The delivery must be an underhand motion with the hand below the hip and
the wrist not farther from the body than the elbow.
F. The pitch shall be delivered on the throwing arm side of the body and not
behind the back or through the legs.
G. The release of the ball and follow through of the hand and wrist must be
forward and past the straight line of the body.
H. (Men?s Fast Pitch) In the act of delivering the ball, the pitcher must take one
step with the non-pivot foot simultaneous with the release of the ball. The
step must be forward toward the batter. It is not a step if the pitcher slides
the pivot foot across the pitcher?s plate toward the batter, or if the pivot foot
turns or slides in order to push off the pitcher?s plate, provided contact is
maintained with the plate. Raising the foot off the pitching plate and returning
it to the plate creates a rocking motion and is an illegal act.
I. (Women?s and all JO play) In the act of delivering the ball, the pitcher must
take one step with the non-pivot foot simultaneous with the release of the
ball. The step must be forward and toward the batter within the 24-inch length
of the pitcher?s plate. It is not a step if the pitcher slides the pivot foot across
the pitcher?s plate toward the batter, or if the pivot foot turns or slides in order
to push off the pitcher?s plate, provided contact is maintained with the plate.
Raising the foot off the pitching plate and returning it to the plate creates a
rocking motion and is an illegal act
J. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher?s plate is
illegal.
K. (Women?s and all JO Play) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact
with the ground is required. If a hole has been created, the pivot foot may
drag no higher than the level plane of the ground.
L. (Men?s) Pushing off and dragging the pivot foot in contact with the ground,
or if both feet are in the air, having the toes of the pivot foot in the downward
direction is required.
M. The pitcher must not make another revolution after releasing the ball.
N. The pitcher shall not deliberately drop, roll or bounce the ball in order to
prevent the batter from hitting it.
O. The pitcher has 20 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball
or after the umpire indicates ?play ball.?

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...
 
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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST...

RULES SUPPLEMENT


[FONT=&quot]40. PITCHING (Fast Pitch).[/FONT]
There are six basic features in the pitching rule. These are:
A. Contact with the Pitcher?s Plate. The pitcher must have both feet on
the ground within the 24-inch length of the plate. The shoulders shall
be in line with first and third base.
The male pitcher shall take a position with the pivot foot in contact with
the pitcher?s plate and the non-pivot foot on or behind the pitcher?s
plate.
The female pitcher shall take a position with both feet in contact with
the pitcher?s plate.
B. Signal. A pitcher must take a signal or simulate taking a signal from
the catcher while in contact with the pitcher?s plate as described in (A)
above. The ball must be held in the hand or the glove / mitt while taking
the signal. The ball held in one hand may be in front of or behind the
body. Taking or simulating taking a signal prevents the pitcher from
walking onto the pitcher?s plate and putting the batter at a disadvantage
by throwing a quick pitch. The actual signal may be taken from the
catcher, the dugout or any other location.
C. Preliminary to Delivery. MALE pitchers shall have one or both feet in
contact with the pitcher?s plate. FEMALE pitchers must keep both feet
in contact with the pitcher?s plate during the entire preliminary process.
After taking or simulating taking the signal, bringing the hands together
and keeping them together a minimum of one second and not more
than 10 seconds; the pitcher may begin their pitching motion. FEMALE,
during this entire period the pivot foot must remain in contact with the
pitcher?s plate. MALE, if the pitcher wants to step back with the non-
pivot foot they may do so prior to separating the hands. No rocking
movement which pulls the pivot foot off the pitcher?s plate is allowed.
If the pivot foot turns or slides in order to push off the pitcher?s plate,
it is acceptable as long as contact is maintained. It is not considered
a step when the pitcher slides their foot across the pitcher?s plate.
D. Start of Pitch. The pitch starts when the pitcher takes one hand off the
ball after bringing the hands together.
E. Delivery. The delivery may not be two full revolutions. The pitcher?s
hand may go past the hip twice as long as two full revolutions are not
completed. The wrist may not be any farther from the hip than the
elbow. The delivery may not have a stop or reversal of the forward
motion, and must be made on the throwing arm side of the body. The
pitch may not be delivered behind the back or between the legs.
F. Step or Release. A step, only one, must be taken and it must be forward,
toward the batter and within the 24-inch length of the pitcher?s
plate; however, beginning in 2007 MALE ADULT pitchers no longer
are required to step forward within the 24-inch length of the pitcher?s
plate. Dragging or pushing off with the pivot foot from the pitcher?s
plate is required. Pushing off from a spot other than the pitcher?s plate
is considered a crow hop and is illegal. The ADULT MALE may push off
with the pivot foot and drag the foot in the dirt, or may be airborne with
both feet as long as the pivot foot toe is pointing downward toward the
ground. Should the pivot foot toe not be pointed downward, an illegal
pitch should be called. The release of the ball must be simultaneous
with the step.

Much attention and discussion has been given to recognizing
the differences between the crow hop and the leap on the pitching
delivery:
1. A CROW HOP is defined as a replant of the pivot foot prior to
delivering the pitch. This can be done by (1) sliding the foot in
front, but not in contact with, the pitcher?s plate; (2) lifting the pivot
foot and stepping forward; or (3) jumping forward from the pitcher?s
plate with the pivot foot prior to starting the pitch. Umpires should
look at the location of the pivot foot when the hands separate, the
start of the pitch. If the pivot foot is off and in front of the pitcher?s
plate before the hands separate, this would be a crow hop and
an illegal pitch should be called.
2. A LEAP occurs when both of the pitcher?s feet become airborne
on the initial move as the pitcher pushes from the pitcher?s plate.
In the WOMEN?S and YOUTH Fast Pitch divisions the pivot foot
must stay in contact with the ground following the push off from the
pitcher?s plate. ADULT MALE pitchers are allowed to have both
feet airborne as long as the pivot foot toe is pointed downward
toward the ground. If the pivot foot toe is not pointed downward,
an illegal pitch should be called. ADULT MALE pitchers can also
legally push and drag the pivot foot on the ground during the
step.
G. Pitcher returning to pitch. A pitcher returning to pitch in the same half
inning shall not receive warm-up pitches. There is no limit as to the
number of times a player can return to the pitching position as long
as the player has not left the batting order, or has not been removed
from the pitcher?s position by rule.

The above ASA pitching rules (men?s are grayed and don?t apply here) seem to be everything that covers delivery of the pitch. The rules that seem to specifically address the ?push off? and ?crow hop? are:
RULE #6 ? Section 3 ? Item J.
Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher?s plate is
illegal.

RULES SUPPLEMENT #40 ? Item F.

A step, only one, must be taken and it must be forward,
toward the batter and within the 24-inch length of the pitcher?s
plate; however, beginning in 2007 MALE ADULT pitchers no longer
are required to step forward within the 24-inch length of the pitcher?s
plate. Dragging or pushing off with the pivot foot from the pitcher?s
plate is required. Pushing off from a spot other than the pitcher?s plate
is considered a crow hop and is illegal. The ADULT MALE may push off
with the pivot foot and drag the foot in the dirt, or may be airborne with
both feet as long as the pivot foot toe is pointing downward toward the
ground. Should the pivot foot toe not be pointed downward, an illegal
pitch should be called. The release of the ball must be simultaneous
with the step.

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST...
 
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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST...


I see nothing in these rules that specifically addresses what is termed a ?re-plant?, where the pitcher establishes a second impetus, or push off point. The only rules that could remotely apply are the two I have shown above, highlighting the applicable verbiage.


After carefully reading these rules, I am convinced that a replant with a second impetus is a completely legal pitching maneuver according to ASA standards. After ?one hand is removed from the ball?, and the pitcher is in her legal motion, she may push off from the pitcher?s plate and drag her pivot foot to a point anywhere in front of, and within the width of, the pitcher?s plate, essentially as far as her momentum will carry her. What happens next is puzzling, considering the spirit of the rules.


During the push and stride, at any time before her front stride foot plants, her drag foot may stop and provide a second push point. This is completely different than just sliding the pivot foot off the front of the pitcher?s plate at the start of the pitch. The plant point I am referring to is typically two to three feet in front of the pitcher?s plate.


It seems the rules and supplements were written to address and prevent two specific actions. First is deception, or actions which might cause the batter to focus more on timing the pitcher?s motions and actions rather than timing the actual pitch. Second is gaining excessive momentum, as could be done with a ?step-back? (illegal), or stepping forward off the pitcher?s plate (also illegal) before the pitch.


What puzzles me is that nowhere is the replant addressed. If a pitching motion that incorporates a push point other than the pitcher?s plate is illegal, why is there no emphasis on preventing a second push off that is at least two feet closer to the batter? Is this just an oversight from getting caught up in trying to emphasize and explain the other issues? VERY puzzling is the verbiage stating:


(3) jumping forward from the pitcher?s
plate with the pivot foot prior to starting the pitch. Umpires should
look at the location of the pivot foot when the hands separate, the
start of the pitch. If the pivot foot is off and in front of the pitcher?s
plate before the hands separate, this would be a crow hop and
an illegal pitch should be called.


While visualizing pitching mechanics, this make no sense to me. What?s to prevent a pitcher from FIRST, removing the ball from her glove (effectively separating the hands), THEN slide her pivot foot forward off of the pitcher?s plate (legal, since the hands have first separated). In reality, taking the rules literally as written, she could legally drag to yet another point with her pivot foot and push off again!


In my opinion, until the ASA pitching rules are rewritten to address what the SPIRIT of the rules were meant to enforce, there will be drastic inconsistencies and misunderstanding in how and why ?crow hopping? is called. Until then, it could be a futile exercise complaining about a ?crow hopping? pitcher gaining an unfair advantage, depending on how literally the rules are interpreted.

 
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Much attention and discussion has been given to recognizing
the differences between the crow hop and the leap on the pitching
delivery:
1. A CROW HOP is defined as a replant of the pivot foot prior to
delivering the pitch. This can be done by (1) sliding the foot in
front, but not in contact with, the pitcher?s plate;


I see a reference to replant right here in your post.
 
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Sammy

The rules specifically address the "spirit" of a crow hop or replant.

It mentions over and over that a pitcher is only allowed to push off from the pitching plate. The "spirit" and verbage is so clear I am at a loss how you can not see it.

Maybe this will help (taken right from your cut and paste rules):

- Dragging or pushing off with the pivot foot from the pitcher?s
plate is required. Pushing off from a spot other than the pitcher?s plate
is considered a crow hop and is illegal

Or maybe:

- Much attention and discussion has been given to recognizing
the differences between the crow hop and the leap on the pitching
delivery:
1. A CROW HOP is defined as a replant of the pivot foot prior to
delivering the pitch. This can be done by (1) sliding the foot in
front, but not in contact with, the pitcher?s plate; (2) lifting the pivot
foot and stepping forward; or (3) jumping forward from the pitcher?s
plate with the pivot foot prior to starting the pitch. Umpires should
look at the location of the pivot foot when the hands separate, the
start of the pitch. If the pivot foot is off and in front of the pitcher?s
plate before the hands separate, this would be a crow hop and
an illegal pitch should be called.
2. A LEAP occurs when both of the pitcher?s feet become airborne
on the initial move as the pitcher pushes from the pitcher?s plate.
In the WOMEN?S and YOUTH Fast Pitch divisions the pivot foot
must stay in contact with the ground following the push off from the
pitcher?s plate.

I think you are trying way too hard to start an argument.
 
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No, quite the contrary on starting an argument! I actually now agree with Brett's interpretation from many previous posts on this topic. And I totally agree with the comment about the spirit of the rules, and I addressed that in my original post.

The use of the word REPLANT in the rules is explained as sliding the foot forward from the pitcher's plate at the beginning of the pitch. I was referring to not finding a reference to a replant that takes place during the stride. With that said, I was admitting I was misinterpreting what was being called a crow hop in the rules.

Discussions about rules interpretation CAN and should be kept civil. The intent is to provide a better, CLEARER interpretation, and remove ambiguous explanations.
 
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I can't find it but Bret can post the web page. It was sent out for umpires to show the pitching rules in a Visual presentation and what each rule violation looked like. I think it was on the NFHS site.
 
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Maybe they were the videos I uploaded to YouTube recently. They were from NFHS, and I had posted the link on the Re-plant thread from a week ago.
 
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I C.

So you were attacking the concept of a replant during the slide. Which I think is handled just not directly.

I think the biggest issue is when you run into a pitcher with a HUGE pushoff or slide. It can be a bit vague or feel like she is getting an unfair advantage.

I know one area we often complain about is the "leap". Which I am now 60% convinced is not an advantage to the pitcher. Most of the time umpires tell us that the pitcher is just "sliding" over the hole in front of the pitching plate.

Either way I pretty much always fall on the side of the pitcher is somehow cheating......LOL. I even think our pitchers are cheating........you just can not trust the pitchers. My wife was a catcher and she always just smiles when the pitchers start acting funny........she just smiles and rolls her eyes and then walks ou tto the mound to see what has them all worked up.
 
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good shots Merlion, when watched at regular speed it's hard to see. And Blue doesn't get video or slow motion. Not that I'm taking up for blue or illegal pitchers, just stating how difficult it is to see at regular speed. MD
 
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Those 2 NFHS videos which have been shown here multiple times say it all in my mind ... if both feet are in the air or the pivot foot is off the rubber when the hands separate, it is illegal. As MD says, its just hard to see at regular speed.
 
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Those 2 NFHS videos which have been shown here multiple times say it all in my mind ... if both feet are in the air or the pivot foot is off the rubber when the hands separate, it is illegal. As MD says, its just hard to see at regular speed.

Coach,

It is hard to see at regular speed even if you know they are illegal. I'll have a little more patience with blue this year..... No, I won't.
 
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Lol know what you mean Buckeye. Actually, the whole position of the pivot foot at the time of separation approach should allow a coach to have a calm discussion with a knowledgable umpire. I had not focused on the hands separation in the past and I think that will help make my case if and when the time comes.
 
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I'm with Sammy on this one. The main thing I took away from Bretmans previous comments (last year) was that once the hands have separated, the pitch has begun and all bets are off as long as she stays in contact with the ground. Thus it makes it perfectly legal to replant (as many pitchers do) in front of the pitching plate. IMHO, it's not that hard to see in real time if you know what to look for. Kind of a shuffle, pause, and slide with the footwork. That all happens in a fraction of a second. To me, if the toes or top of foot aren't the part dragging, in all likelihood they are replanting. Conveniently, none of the NFHS videos show this except the Ephus pitch video and they don't even mention her footwork in that.

I also realize my opinion means zippo. This isn't the only rule that is poorly written to say one thing and mean another. I've been told I read it too literally. :lmao::lmao:
 
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I'm with Sammy on this one. The main thing I took away from Bretmans previous comments (last year) was that once the hands have separated, the pitch has begun and all bets are off as long as she stays in contact with the ground. Thus it makes it perfectly legal to replant (as many pitchers do) in front of the pitching plate. IMHO, it's not that hard to see in real time if you know what to look for. Kind of a shuffle, pause, and slide with the footwork. That all happens in a fraction of a second. To me, if the toes or top of foot aren't the part dragging, in all likelihood they are replanting. Conveniently, none of the NFHS videos show this except the Ephus pitch video and they don't even mention her footwork in that.

I also realize my opinion means zippo. This isn't the only rule that is poorly written to say one thing and mean another. I've been told I read it too literally. :lmao::lmao:

My feelings exactly! "After the hands have separated - all bets are off" really sums it up! I was getting all bent about pitchers who would repeatedly stride out, replant, then deliver the pitch from 35'. After REALLY reading the rules, it seems it's perfectly legal! :eek: I guess I gotta quit reading this stuff like it's a technical journal! :rolleyes:

The big question: Of all the rules in softball, why are pitching rules the most misunderstood and misinterpreted?
 

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