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I've seen some IFA tournaments paying out up to $1500 for winners. Does this in a any way violate or jeopardize the amateur status of the girls.
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While amateur status is a valid concern, I have a concern about 10/12/14/16/18 year old kids playing for money. I think once money becomes involved, then coaches will be more irate over close calls, some coaches will be more active in poaching players to bolster their teams, etc. I have seen what money has done to men's slow pitch tournament teams and how nasty they act when money is on the line. The old saying "money is the root of all evil" may not happen in this case and I hope it doesn't. Time will tell!
Bob
Bob
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What I wonder is what will happen if these cash payouts are promised and then for some reason the County Visitor Bureaus are not able to pony up the cash. Perhaps due to economic reasons or just because the teams and families did not have the economic impact that was promised. I am sure that they have some target level of income that they expect to have generated in order to pay out these winnings.
I think that Tourn-Director has a good point about having these kids play for money. How bad will a player feel when they give up the winning run that cost their team $1,500.00 in prize money. I guess it just changes why we have them play this game. For my part I will stick to having them do fundraisers to help earn their travel money. Seems a little more transparent to me. Also, what happens the first time that a host team wins the championship at an event that they host, and pocket the $1,500 or more in cash? Imagine some of the posts that will grace the OFC then. Stick to prizes, it keeps things simple for the kids.
I think that Tourn-Director has a good point about having these kids play for money. How bad will a player feel when they give up the winning run that cost their team $1,500.00 in prize money. I guess it just changes why we have them play this game. For my part I will stick to having them do fundraisers to help earn their travel money. Seems a little more transparent to me. Also, what happens the first time that a host team wins the championship at an event that they host, and pocket the $1,500 or more in cash? Imagine some of the posts that will grace the OFC then. Stick to prizes, it keeps things simple for the kids.
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I did a little edit.
1st
the way i understand the prize money, It is in hand of the TD before the tournament starts.
2nd.
The same can be said if the OHSAA Championship is lost by 1 run.
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Money goes to the organization not the individual. The money is being paid by the TD not the County Visitors Bureau. Quakerman has asked the CVB, Hotels, and Restaurants to donate field equipment and give team discounts and not money toward Marion's tournament. As a hosting team we are not allowed to play in the tournament (IFA Requirement), which is why the MID OHIO BOMBERS is playing in Urbana's Spring Tournament. This is kids softball not mens, we expect organizations to be truthful and honest and I'm sure if anyone stacks a roster for a national qualifer then a release of any said player will need approved by IFA and it will be caught. Men always act more childish than the kids during a softball game, I would know, I have played for 20 plus years . It's not the kids that will react poorly or in a nasty manner, it will be the adults, and they are representing an organization not just a man's team so I dont see how money will effect the children. The money is just a bonus, these tournaments are all National Qualifiers to help teams to go out of our great State to see other competition and styles of playing fastpitch. The idea of the money is to pull the best teams around to go play in Elite National Qualifying Tournament, as a TD I wonder if teams wont play in it because of the fear that the best teams around are going to be there and they think they dont stand a chance. Every team has a chance on any given day!
I've been reading posts on here for a little while now, I've had a travel team for 3 years and I get confused sometimes, is it about the girls? Nothing anyone does will make everyone happy, but the best anyone can do is TRY! Everytime I read a negative post all I think about is that High School that initially cancelled their program because of all the Negativity. I personally am about the children and making them better athletes and people and accommodating family style softball. Everything I do is voluntary as it is for most of us in fastpitch or non school sponsored events and sometimes when I read negativity, and it's not just me, but I wonder why do I put me and mine through all this. Then I remember all the passion I had when I played the game (baseball), all the aspirations of wanting to play pro ball, the dreams and all my idols I had growing up. I want kids to experience the same thing, as an adult it is still fun to get with the guys and discuss the what if's. I want my kids to have the same if not more opportunities than I had growing up. Just as TD said in his post, it's not the kids that will act poorly it will be the coaches, it will be the coaches that try to poach lineups and those orgaizations will be marked and no tournament will allow that program to play in the future. Money should't change anything, it's about the kids and the kids is what I'm all about.
I've been reading posts on here for a little while now, I've had a travel team for 3 years and I get confused sometimes, is it about the girls? Nothing anyone does will make everyone happy, but the best anyone can do is TRY! Everytime I read a negative post all I think about is that High School that initially cancelled their program because of all the Negativity. I personally am about the children and making them better athletes and people and accommodating family style softball. Everything I do is voluntary as it is for most of us in fastpitch or non school sponsored events and sometimes when I read negativity, and it's not just me, but I wonder why do I put me and mine through all this. Then I remember all the passion I had when I played the game (baseball), all the aspirations of wanting to play pro ball, the dreams and all my idols I had growing up. I want kids to experience the same thing, as an adult it is still fun to get with the guys and discuss the what if's. I want my kids to have the same if not more opportunities than I had growing up. Just as TD said in his post, it's not the kids that will act poorly it will be the coaches, it will be the coaches that try to poach lineups and those orgaizations will be marked and no tournament will allow that program to play in the future. Money should't change anything, it's about the kids and the kids is what I'm all about.
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It's for future travel monies. Other tournament directors don't do it because they don't want to give away their profits.... Now, that is very plain and simple. I've seen TD's who hold huge tournaments with three people to take care of the fields..... so to them it is about nothing but pure profits and "give them cake" attitudes.
I mean, we don't have to give "travel monies" but this is the main reason we play full games so winning issues is not based on the clock... especially when "travel monies" is on the line.
I mean, we don't have to give "travel monies" but this is the main reason we play full games so winning issues is not based on the clock... especially when "travel monies" is on the line.
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And people wonder why Girs sports take a back seat to Boy sports.
God Bless
Ricky Moorehead
God Bless
Ricky Moorehead
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I would like to congratulate Tim on all of his hard work and dedication so that the girls can have a good softball experience. He is undoubtably one of the hardest working softball people in the state and region. Tim has some good plans and ideas to give the girls the best.
But....I do have some concerns about the money payout for teams. when I read the OHSAA By-laws, I interpret them as not allowing this.
I think the best way to proceed would be for an IFA Official to have a meeting with the OHSAA Commisioners, not the staff, and get an interpretation, in writing, before actually disbursing the travel money.
Other sanctions award paid berths to Nationals. The way I read it, this too would be a violation.
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Thanks wvanalmsick. This is what I was asking in my original post. I think people took it the wrong way. I wasn't saying the payouts were good or bad or trying to bust anybodies *****. When money is involved, the rules change. I just want to make sure if we decide to play one of these money events, the girls are protected from any OHSAA issues.
redelawder, I don't think anyone questions your intentions or sincerity about why you OR UrbanaFan is holding your tournaments. However, you would feel terrible if you found out that the winning team lost HS eligability because they got a payout at your tourney. This is more a question about OHSAA guidlines than IFA practices.
redelawder, I don't think anyone questions your intentions or sincerity about why you OR UrbanaFan is holding your tournaments. However, you would feel terrible if you found out that the winning team lost HS eligability because they got a payout at your tourney. This is more a question about OHSAA guidlines than IFA practices.
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Please note individual / player wording in OHSAA. There's the key.
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I think I will stick with trophies and such for my awards. as for the paid berths. That has been going on for years and it has not caused problems that i have heard of.
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And Choosen One: For all you negativity you keep going around the IFA rules: If you are an IFA Tournament director.. you can not play in your own event and BE a Tournament Director. I Must come in and run your tournament.. so there is no thoughts of being homered. If you'd keep up with the threads.. you seem to always blindly go by the issues... that you bring forward... this has always be said. The case in Zanesville in June, Conrad wanted to play in his event and I said it was fine as long as I was the TD there. The same is in Urbana in April, I will be there to be the Tournament Director if Jon puts his team in.
So, where's the problem, Choosen One ? You want to create problems... I can tell by your posts. Run your own events like you want ... that's your choice.
I know there is TD's mad about the idea that I have let the cat out of the bag..so to say... that there is a way to make things better.. who have for years refused to give back except give some cheap trophies that usually 14u teams on up could personally careless about. Usually, they hit the trash as dust collector..
Most are probally the TD's when our weekend tournaments match up. TO which I feel that you have had your opportunity for YEARS now to give back to the girls.... you haven't... so stand up now for I'm not going to back down or even go away.
Now, you can take that to the bank.
So, where's the problem, Choosen One ? You want to create problems... I can tell by your posts. Run your own events like you want ... that's your choice.
I know there is TD's mad about the idea that I have let the cat out of the bag..so to say... that there is a way to make things better.. who have for years refused to give back except give some cheap trophies that usually 14u teams on up could personally careless about. Usually, they hit the trash as dust collector..
Most are probally the TD's when our weekend tournaments match up. TO which I feel that you have had your opportunity for YEARS now to give back to the girls.... you haven't... so stand up now for I'm not going to back down or even go away.
Now, you can take that to the bank.
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For Choosenone
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From my understanding the money will be paid to the coach, and not to anyone individual on the team. Last time I checked OHSAA had no authority on prizes awarded to travel coaches.
Alot of you really like chasing your tails for a lack of better things to do.;&
Alot of you really like chasing your tails for a lack of better things to do.;&
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Thanks Lady KNights... this was discussed in another thread earlier last month.
Just some of these TD's want to make issues... when they have had the opportunity for years to give back to the girls and haven't ... so they attack me because I do. It seems the more you do for the girls... the more you get attacked.
Hey, LK, did you hear us on the radio Saturday night ? That Ricky threw some questions at me that I didn't know was coming...lol.... but that is the only way to make it an interview and be fair. Nothing pre-rehearsed.. questions not known in advance.
Love to see other association come on air...... WHO's NEXT ?????
Just some of these TD's want to make issues... when they have had the opportunity for years to give back to the girls and haven't ... so they attack me because I do. It seems the more you do for the girls... the more you get attacked.
Hey, LK, did you hear us on the radio Saturday night ? That Ricky threw some questions at me that I didn't know was coming...lol.... but that is the only way to make it an interview and be fair. Nothing pre-rehearsed.. questions not known in advance.
Love to see other association come on air...... WHO's NEXT ?????
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I don't useually post about these threads on the ofc but I think this a great idea where coaches get travel money but are not forced to go to nationals. I think the ringer has a valid question but all the other organizations do this but force you to go to there tournament, so i think it would be all right.
I hope you keep it up quakerman. I never here from any other organizations on ofc but yours. I think it's great what your doing for the girls.
I hope you keep it up quakerman. I never here from any other organizations on ofc but yours. I think it's great what your doing for the girls.
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I think TheRinger has a valid point, has anybody discussed this with OHSAA. OHSAA has a funny way of interpreting its own rules. I would hate to see a girl ruled ineligible by OHSAA because they see it differently.
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I'm waiting on a response back from OHSAA, hopefully have it by today but only one contact is in today.
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"I did a little edit.
1st
the way i understand the prize money, It is in hand of the TD before the tournament starts.
2nd.
The same can be said if the OHSAA Championship is lost by 1 run. "
UrbanaFan regarding your 1st point, I would hope so. Again my question was, what if they did not pony up the funds. On your 2nd point I am not sure what that has to do with costing your team actual money. My point was that players will now be attaching a monetary value to error should it cost them the game. Just kind of changes things. By the way cute picture.
LK so now its Ok to have players earning money for thier coaches? Just curious where this ends.
Northmontthunder I think that some of the tournaments that provide a paid birth to a particular world series do so because that is the qualifier that they are offering. I think that it would be weird to attend a USSSA qualifer and be awarded a paid birth to the NSA world series. maybe it's just me.
Heavy Hitter good point. If anyone thinks that they can get a clear answer about this from OHSAA well they have obviously never dealt with them. I do think tat it would be a great idea for the directors of the different sanctions to actually meet with OSHAA to determine exactly what is and is not legal. In that case they would really be "looking out for the kids"
OQM you said
"And Choosen One: For all you negativity you keep going around the IFA rules: If you are an IFA Tournament director.. you can not play in your own event and BE a Tournament Director. I Must come in and run your tournament.. so there is no thoughts of being homered. If you'd keep up with the threads.. you seem to always blindly go by the issues... that you bring forward... this has always be said. The case in Zanesville in June, Conrad wanted to play in his event and I said it was fine as long as I was the TD there. The same is in Urbana in April, I will be there to be the Tournament Director if Jon puts his team in.
So, where's the problem, Choosen One ? You want to create problems... I can tell by your posts. Run your own events like you want ... that's your choice."
I never said anything about a TD having a team in the tournament. I think thta it is totally appropriate for any cach who has a team in an event to not serve as the TD. I do not run any tournaments but my kid plays in many. I would hope that any TD should not need a sanction body to tell them not to coach in their own event. Common sense prevails. I guess I do not see where my comment was negative. I really feel that if a team from an organization plays in their own hosted event (even with you their as the tournament Czar) will still face some questions when there is $1,500.00 in cold hard cash on the line. It is human nature and I am not saying that anyone would do anything wrong to deserve it. Again, not mean...just asking.
Finally, I was going to comment on this but it made no sense to me so I decided not to. Other then perhaps asking for some clarification.
"Most are probally the TD's when our weekend tournaments match up. TO which I feel that you have had your opportunity for YEARS now to give back to the girls.... you haven't... so stand up now for I'm not going to back down or even go away.
Now, you can take that to the bank."
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the way i understand the prize money, It is in hand of the TD before the tournament starts.
2nd.
The same can be said if the OHSAA Championship is lost by 1 run. "
UrbanaFan regarding your 1st point, I would hope so. Again my question was, what if they did not pony up the funds. On your 2nd point I am not sure what that has to do with costing your team actual money. My point was that players will now be attaching a monetary value to error should it cost them the game. Just kind of changes things. By the way cute picture.
LK so now its Ok to have players earning money for thier coaches? Just curious where this ends.
Northmontthunder I think that some of the tournaments that provide a paid birth to a particular world series do so because that is the qualifier that they are offering. I think that it would be weird to attend a USSSA qualifer and be awarded a paid birth to the NSA world series. maybe it's just me.
Heavy Hitter good point. If anyone thinks that they can get a clear answer about this from OHSAA well they have obviously never dealt with them. I do think tat it would be a great idea for the directors of the different sanctions to actually meet with OSHAA to determine exactly what is and is not legal. In that case they would really be "looking out for the kids"
OQM you said
"And Choosen One: For all you negativity you keep going around the IFA rules: If you are an IFA Tournament director.. you can not play in your own event and BE a Tournament Director. I Must come in and run your tournament.. so there is no thoughts of being homered. If you'd keep up with the threads.. you seem to always blindly go by the issues... that you bring forward... this has always be said. The case in Zanesville in June, Conrad wanted to play in his event and I said it was fine as long as I was the TD there. The same is in Urbana in April, I will be there to be the Tournament Director if Jon puts his team in.
So, where's the problem, Choosen One ? You want to create problems... I can tell by your posts. Run your own events like you want ... that's your choice."
I never said anything about a TD having a team in the tournament. I think thta it is totally appropriate for any cach who has a team in an event to not serve as the TD. I do not run any tournaments but my kid plays in many. I would hope that any TD should not need a sanction body to tell them not to coach in their own event. Common sense prevails. I guess I do not see where my comment was negative. I really feel that if a team from an organization plays in their own hosted event (even with you their as the tournament Czar) will still face some questions when there is $1,500.00 in cold hard cash on the line. It is human nature and I am not saying that anyone would do anything wrong to deserve it. Again, not mean...just asking.
Finally, I was going to comment on this but it made no sense to me so I decided not to. Other then perhaps asking for some clarification.
"Most are probally the TD's when our weekend tournaments match up. TO which I feel that you have had your opportunity for YEARS now to give back to the girls.... you haven't... so stand up now for I'm not going to back down or even go away.
Now, you can take that to the bank."
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