Runner on 3rd base stealing home on a pass ball, when does she need to slide in ASA tournament?

TheSoftballZone

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Runner stealing home from 3rd base on a pass ball, catcher retrieve pass ball and under hand throws the ball back to the pitcher low she has the tag ready down low but has to pull the glove with ball inside up higher because the runner didn't slide into home, the runner dodge the tag by leaning to the right and tags home plate with her feet.

This was a ASA tournament and it was the 10 under girls age group.

What the ruling umpires?
 

BretMan2

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Sounds like "safe"...a run just scored.

Runners are NEVER required to slide, in any situation, at any base, under ASA rules.
 

backstop09

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Runner stealing home from 3rd base on a pass ball, catcher retrieve pass ball and under hand throws the ball back to the pitcher low she has the tag ready down low but has to pull the glove with ball inside up higher because the runner didn't slide into home, the runner dodge the tag by leaning to the right and tags home plate with her feet.

This was a ASA tournament and it was the 10 under girls age group.

What the ruling umpires?

Two things - 1) The runner ADVANCES home on a passed ball or wild pitch, but she doesn't STEAL home from third on either of these. There's a big difference when keeping proper stats, and 2) She only has to avoid malicious or unnecessary contact. There is no requirement to slide. According to the original post, it sounds as though you are asking if she has to slide so that her foot will make contact with the glove and ball. Fortunately that's not a rule because it wouldn't make much sense.
 

TheSoftballZone

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Two things - 1) The runner ADVANCES home on a passed ball or wild pitch, but she doesn't STEAL home from third on either of these. There's a big difference when keeping proper stats, and 2) She only has to avoid malicious or unnecessary contact. There is no requirement to slide. According to the original post, it sounds as though you are asking if she has to slide so that her foot will make contact with the glove and ball. Fortunately that's not a rule because it wouldn't make much sense.

I was asking because I was unaware of any you must slide rule. A Coaches brought these up during the play and said she had to slide due to a play being made on the base runner.
 

wvanalmsick

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This is a great teaching point for the infielder's or anyone that has to cover a base.

As mentioned above there is no requirement to slide. But, what part of the runner's body is going to touch the base first? If she is coming in standing up, then one of her feet is going to touch first. Keep the glove low and prepare for contact from the runner.

Also teach the proper way for a pitcher to cover home on a Wild Pitch without getting a call for obstruction. It is usually going to be a close play so the pitcher cannot block the plate until she is receiving the ball (did I get that right Bretman?). I'll get in trouble for this but if the fielder is in possession of the ball before the runner reaches the plate, then "Lock-down" the base. Sit on the base if you have to.
 

canes7

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We had a runner called out at home for not sliding this past weekend. PGF Tournament at maple leaf. There was a slight collision with the catcher and our runner was stepping on home as the ball was about to arrive at the plate. Runner was on third and ball in play. Team threw home and the runner beat the throw, did not slide and made slight collision with the catcher. Are PGF rules different than ASA or should she have been safe? I know in High school ball you are required to slide on a contested play at home. Just trying to figure all these rules out.
 
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Comp

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We had a runner called out at home for not sliding this past weekend. PGF Tournament at maple leaf. There was a slight collision with the catcher and our runner was stepping on home as the ball was about to arrive at the plate. Runner was on third and ball in play. Team threw home and the runner beat the throw, did not slide and made slight collision with the catcher. Are PGF rules different than ASA or should she have been safe? I know in High school ball you are required to slide on a contested play at home. Just trying to figure all these rules out.

The high school rule is no different than ASA, a runner is never required to slide in any rule set. But, they must avoid a collision with a fielder who is in possession of the ball and waiting to make a tag. In ASA it is referred to as the crash rule, and in NFHS it is the malicious contact rule. To avoid being called out, a runner may slide and make contact with the fielder. And, PGF uses slightly modified NFHS rules.
 

backstop09

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...I know in High school ball you are required to slide on a contested play at home...

If you "know" this to be a rule, on what page of the NFHS rule book is it located?
 

snoman76

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In a double play situation, what if the runner going to 2nd doesn't slide but affects the throw from from 2nd to 1st?
 

cobb_of_fury

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In a double play situation, what if the runner going to 2nd doesn't slide but affects the throw from from 2nd to 1st?

Had this happen a couple weeks ago (USSSA). She doesn't have to slide but she can't step in to the path or hinder the throw in any way.
In our case the girl going to 2B was out by a step or more and came in standing up, but her mistake was when she started to head in after being called out she accidently stepped in front of the SS as the girl was going to make the throw to 1B.
 

snoman76

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lets make a situation here. (similar to my other post but more detailed)
Runner on 1st, ball hit to P4, fields and flips to SS covering 2nd base, runner keeps a straight line from 1st to 2nd, out is made as runner is 75% to the bag, she continues her path to the bag only slowing down to avoid collision and doesn't change her path, SS double clutches because the runner is in front of her and then throws to first where batter/runner is safe.
 

Comp

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A retired runner is not expected to instantly disappear off the field. As long as they make no act of interference by purposely making contact with the fielder throwing the ball, peeling off and getting in the way of the throw etc the runner is entitled to be there.

Now, NCAA has come out with their own ruling stating if the runner could normally be expected to be sliding, but remains upright and gets in the way of the throw it is interference. What is very interesting about their ruling is while they consider the runner remaining upright to be interference if they get in the way of the throw, it is perfectly acceptable for the runner to go in hard sliding and take out the fielder to break up the double play. Major conflict in their rule interpretation.
 

BretMan2

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I always wonder about the timing on these kind of plays.

If the runner is "75%" to second base, then she is only 15 feet away from the bag when put out. Of course, a split second before she's put out she will be running at full speed. How long does it take a runner to cover 15 feet at full speed? One to one and a half seconds?

How do we expect a runner to take evasive action in that one second? Keep in mind that at least a second will elapse before the umpire actually signals the out. Do we expect the runner to stop running before she's even been called out?

If a runner is legally running the bases, and is directly in the baseline, then the reasonable expectation is that she will still be on the same line, heading the same direction, one second after being retired. The fielder needs to realize that and adjust their throwing lane accordingly.

Even the NCAA ruling leaves some judgment up to the umpire in this. I don't work NCAA, but doesn't their official ruling say that the runner needs to avoid the throw IF the umpire judges that she actually had time to avoid it?
 

Ohiogalesdad

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Hey if there no rules about sliding as in going to second to break up a double lay threw the ball at their chest or head and they will get down next time. There no rules on that either and that what hurts too ! If Asa makes them slide it would safe a lot of hurt players
 

Ohiogalesdad

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Cause for the most part all we play and u know it the truth what I am saying slide or get hurt
 

Ohiogalesdad

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And if u don't slide get hit with the ball and make the umpire call on that then
 

Comp

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It simply is not the truth. No rule set in any stick and ball sport has a must slide rule, except those added by local leagues. The only injury I have ever seen at home plate was in a rec league that had a must slide rule. Girl got a compound fracture of the lower leg sliding for no other reason that the league said she had to or be called out.
 

JoeA1010

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In a related note, with bases loaded and a ground ball in the infield, I don't have my players slide at the plate. They don't run over the catcher, but they simply take the back part of the plate. It's just like running through first base.
 
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