Scoring question - sacrifice fly

[backstop09]

Does a run have to score in order for an at-bat to be scored a sacrifice fly or does a runner just have to advance?

 

[snoman76]

Yes, runner has to score to be a "sac fly"

 

[SOFTBALLS14]

Here you go .... Straight out of the NCAA Rules for Scoring Softball..... See last line in notes. This is the rules I use when scoring both H.S. and travelball......... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf Hope it helps!!
SACRIFICE FLY
SECTION 10. A sacrifice fly is credited to the batter when, with less than two outs, the batter
hits a fly ball or line drive that scores a runner regardless of where the ball is caught (in
fair or foul territory) as long as it is in play. If a fair ball is dropped, credit the batter with a
sacrifice fly if the runner would have scored with the catch.
Notes:
1. If the catcher clearly has the ball in her possession before the runner arrives but drops the ball as
the runner comes into home plate, the catcher is charged with an error, and a sacrifice fly and run
batted in are not credited to the batter.
2. All sacrifice flies must result in a run batted in credited to the batter.

 

[Outwork]

i once had a parent question a stat when their daugher grounded out to first (but advanced the runner). she thought this should be a a sacrifice

 

[Louuuuu]

If a fair ball is dropped, credit the batter with a sacrifice fly if the runner would have scored with the catch.

Let's argue.

Say the batter hits a fly ball deep in the gap. The center fielder, because she has Ludicrous Speed, runs it down to the point where she gets glove on it - but not quite enough to make the catch. Going by the NCAA book, that's a Sac Fly?

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Let's argue.

Say the batter hits a fly ball deep in the gap. The center fielder, because she has Ludicrous Speed, runs it down to the point where she gets glove on it - but not quite enough to make the catch. Going by the NCAA book, that's a Sac Fly?

I would have to think only if the Drop would have been considered an error - In the case you stated NO.
That would be a hit and an RBI.

 

[Louuuuu]

I agree. But what's the sense of having a rule if it doesn't cover every scenario? The book simply says "if a fair ball is dropped".

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I agree. But what's the sense of having a rule if it doesn't cover every scenario? The book simply says "if a fair ball is dropped".

have to see if they define DROP - I don't think of what you described as a drop.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

have to see if they define DROP - I don't think of what you described as a drop.

y. Sacrifice Fly: Alegally batted fly ball with less than two out that results in a runner scoring
a run. If the fielder drops the ball but, in the scorer?s opinion, the runner would
have scored had the fielder held the ball, the play shall be scored as a sacrifice fly, and
an error shall be given to the defensive player.

f. On a fair line drive hit to the outfield that drops to the ground if the outfielder is attempting
to catch the ball on the run or if the outfielder had to cover considerable distance or
make the catch running at a high rate of speed. A hit is credited even if the ball is
touched.

So your scenerio it would be a hit -

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Here you go .... Straight out of the NCAA Rules for Scoring Softball .... This is the rules I use when scoring both H.S. and travelball......... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

Be careful about using that publication because it's not current with the actual scoring rules (i.e. Rule 14 in NCAA 2014 and 2015 Softball Rules). For instance, the Stats Manual indicates a slap can be a sacrifice, whereas the actual scoring rules say it can't.

Stats Manual:
SACRIFICE
SECTION 8. A sacrifice is credited to the batter in the following situations:
a. When, with less than two outs, the batter advances one or more runners by bunting (including a slap, slug, slash and running slap) and is called out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred.
Note?The running slapper must clearly show the intent to advance a base runner(s). Always give the batter the benefit of the doubt.
...
SACRIFICE NOT CREDITED
SECTION 9. No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
...
c. When modifications are not made to the running slapper?s swing or motion.
Notes:
1. Modifications could include, but are not limited to, the following: sacrifice motion, a controlled compact swing, a pause in the running slapper?s motion or a reduction of foot speed.
2. Scoring for the left-handed running slapper should be the same as for a traditional left- or right-handed batter. If the running slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base runner, credit a sacrifice. If modifications are not made to the running slapper?s swing or motion, charge an at-bat, even if a base runner advances.

Rule 14 / Scoring:
14.8 Sacrifice
A sacrifice is credited to the batter in the following situations:
14.8.1 When a plate appearance meets the following four criteria: 1) there are fewer than two outs, 2) the batter advances one or more base runners by bunting, 3) the ball must be bunted (that is, not swung at, not slapped at, not chopped at), and 4) the batter is called out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred.
...
14.9 Sacrifice Not Credited
No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
...
Note: Scoring for the left-handed running slapper should be the same as for a traditional left- or right-handed batter. If the running slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base runner by bunting, credit a sacrifice. If the running slapper slaps or swings, charge an at-bat, even if a base runner advances.

 

[Louuuuu]

I wish I could be as bad at my job as Manual Writers are...



a. When, with less than two outs, the batter advances one or more runners by bunting (including a slap, slug, slash and running slap)What the heck is a slug or a slash? and is called out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred.
Note?The running slapper must clearly show the intent We're mind-readers? Intent? Could they mean "hitting behind the runner"? to advance a base runner(s). Always give the batter the benefit of the doubt.
...
SACRIFICE NOT CREDITED
SECTION 9. No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
...
c. When modifications are not made to the running slapper?s swing or motion.
Notes:
1. Modifications could include, but are not limited to, the following: sacrifice motion, a controlled compact swing Isn't that what a slap is already?, a pause in the running slapper?s motion or a reduction of foot speed.

 

[tjsmize3]

I agree. But what's the sense of having a rule if it doesn't cover every scenario? The book simply says "if a fair ball is dropped".

I see the term "drop" as implying the ball was in the defender's possession and then was "dropped" or inadvertently released from the glove. This would be an error and credit the hitter with a sac fly and RBI. In the situation you describe, the defense "gets glove on it." If the score keeper determines that play required an extra-ordinary effort or would not normally be a catchable ball then credit the hitter with a base hit and an RBI. These are the plays that produce the never ending conferences between the parents and the score keeper.