Ump question

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In my humblest of opinions...the umpire should never be put in a situation to have to deal with an issue such as the one being discussed......it is the coaches job to discuss anything with the umpires, not the player or parents......it is the girls job to play ball and realize that it is on them and them alone to make any adjustments to their game to deal with any outside influence they have no control over, 99% of what it takes to play at a high level lies within the 6" span of space located between the ears.....if a player fails to recognize that then they are always going to be at best an average player....it is unacceptable for a player to ever comment negatively in any way shape or form to an umpire, no matter what the situation may be....that is the sole responsiblity of the coaching staff and nobody else.....if said incident occurred and the player did anything more than smile and walk to the dugout, her position, or wherever, then in my opinion the coach was not doing their job by immediately putting an end to it.......just saying

 

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We had one of our girls reprimanded by the same umpire the game before. I feel the ump could have tossed our girl for her actions. Instead, he did reprimand her in front of everybody. I guess the easy thing to do would have been to toss her out of the game and then people could have said, that changed the outcome of the game because Mr. Umpire thinks he's bigger than the game.
I personally respect this ump more for the way he handled the situation, because I say it is a lessoned learned for our player.
If it were my daughter, I would feel the same way. And yes, her and I would talk about it after the fact.
I did see and hear some of the second incident but it was from beyond left field fence.

The other girl that was reprimanded was my daughter. She was not questioning a bad call, in fact it was the right call, but put on an embarrassing display by slamming a door after she was thrown out on a beautiful play by the center fielder. She had not been able to buy a hit.

I was watching from the third base coaches box. The umpire being scrutinized in this thread warned her and did quite vocally lecture her about how her actions reflect on her character as a player. I agreed with him and allowed him to continue because I have these same conversations with my own kids. We all know their ears can be deaf to our wisdom most of the time and sometimes the best medicine doesn't always taste the best but it works.

I did have that conversation with my daughter in between innings and told her that good players harness their frustration and go make plays and that if she was not capable of doing that then I needed to bench her. I suggested that she apologize to the umpire during her next at bat and she asked if she could do it as she took the field.

I knew then that she was ready to go back in the game and that the lesson learned there may help her in the future. Do I agree that umpires should yell at players? Not when it appears as if they are trying to make themselves bigger than the game. I believe this umpire genuinely shares the same passion I have for the game and wants to protect its integrity.

I also witnessed the second incident from beyond left field and he handled it no differently with the other player. We need more guys that care as much.

 

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The other girl that was reprimanded was my daughter. She was not questioning a bad call, in fact it was the right call, but put on an embarrassing display by slamming a door after she was thrown out on a beautiful play by the center fielder. She had not been able to buy a hit.

I was watching from the third base coaches box. The umpire being scrutinized in this thread warned her and did quite vocally lecture her about how her actions reflect on her character as a player. I agreed with him and allowed him to continue because I have these same conversations with my own kids. We all know their ears can be deaf to our wisdom most of the time and sometimes the best medicine doesn't always taste the best but it works.

I did have that conversation with my daughter in between innings and told her that good players harness their frustration and go make plays and that if she was not capable of doing that then I needed to bench her. I suggested that she apologize to the umpire during her next at bat and she asked if she could do it as she took the field.

I knew then that she was ready to go back in the game and that the lesson learned there may help her in the future. Do I agree that umpires should yell at players? Not when it appears as if they are trying to make themselves bigger than the game. I believe this umpire genuinely shares the same passion I have for the game and wants to protect its integrity.

I also witnessed the second incident from beyond left field and he handled it no differently with the other player. We need more guys that care as much.

As a parent of 3 DD's and a H.S. Umpire, I commend you for standing up for what is right. It's tough out there both as a Coach and a Blue during games, while I may not agree that a Blue should go off on a player, sometimes thats the only way to get their attention. As you stated it's so easy for a person to scrutinize another without fully understanding the the whole situation. On behalf of all the "Blues" I say THANKS!

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

 

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As a parent of 3 DD's and a H.S. Umpire, I commend you for standing up for what is right. It's tough out there both as a Coach and a Blue during games, while I may not agree that a Blue should go off on a player, sometimes thats the only way to get their attention. As you stated it's so easy for a person to scrutinize another without fully understanding the the whole situation. On behalf of all the "Blues" I say THANKS!

FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing to SLOW!

Thanks for your note. I feel I stuck my neck out on this one because I am not using a screen name. But I feel strongly enough that I am willing to put my name behind it. Sam

 

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I have read all of the posted on this situation .Maybe a little tip for everyone involved . As an OHSAA,ASA,NSA, IFA, and national little league umpire in softball,I have been in this situation several times and I have a way to take care of the problems most of the time . I also officiate high school football and basketball so I've heard it all ( I THINK ) . As an ump I feel that if I treat the teams well they will treat me well . Last season I done over 225 games and of all of those games I had only 4 ejections . Some officials won't agree with my ways of doing things and the umpire that trained me just can't stand me doing it .Before the game starts I talk to the coaches and tell them that we all came here today to have fun and that includes ME . If I have fun we all will have fun and when it gets to a point that I'm not having fun ,none of us will have fun so it's your choice, let's have a fun game. When the pitcher takes the mound I will have a similar talk with them . While the catcher is getting warmed up I will talk to them also . During the game I'm always talking to the catchers and batters I don't want them to be intimidated by me and we usually have a good time . If a situation occurs that a player wants to express their opinion as long as they aren't out of line I'll hear what they have to say and if they want to get exited about something all I do is say I've heard enough let's play ball .As for the spectators they always see more and it seems they always know more rules than there are in the book I just block them out .The only thing that I hear from them is foul language anything other I don't hear it . If you don't argue with them pretty soon they will quiet down. If you look at the game as being a business the teams and players as being customers so to say . If you are all of the time flexing your muscle and throwing people out ,soon they won't come back . Next they will tell other teams hoe bad it is then they don't come back . Pretty soon there isn't enough team to play in your tournament or league and as an umpire .......guess what your not needed anymore . So the main thing I guess I'm trying to say is you must give respect to get respect. I know that there are players and coaches on here that I have umped and you will have to agree that there is very seldom any problems in my games . LETS ALL HAVE FUN .

 

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The other girl that was reprimanded was my daughter. She was not questioning a bad call, in fact it was the right call, but put on an embarrassing display by slamming a door after she was thrown out on a beautiful play by the center fielder. She had not been able to buy a hit.

I was watching from the third base coaches box. The umpire being scrutinized in this thread warned her and did quite vocally lecture her about how her actions reflect on her character as a player. I agreed with him and allowed him to continue because I have these same conversations with my own kids. We all know their ears can be deaf to our wisdom most of the time and sometimes the best medicine doesn't always taste the best but it works.

Amen!

 

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Funny thing about it... I go over in ground rules at the plate with the coaches that they are responsible for their fans. If I have to toss a fan.. I toss you as well.

It's funny to see the coaches go directly to the loud mouth parent and give fair warning to them...lol

One of the more unprofessional things I have ever heard. The coach is responsible for his team. Not the fans.

 

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Check the rules

 

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I have read all of the posted on this situation .Maybe a little tip for everyone involved . As an OHSAA,ASA,NSA, IFA, and national little league umpire in softball,I have been in this situation several times and I have a way to take care of the problems most of the time . I also officiate high school football and basketball so I've heard it all ( I THINK ) . As an ump I feel that if I treat the teams well they will treat me well . Last season I done over 225 games and of all of those games I had only 4 ejections . Some officials won't agree with my ways of doing things and the umpire that trained me just can't stand me doing it .Before the game starts I talk to the coaches and tell them that we all came here today to have fun and that includes ME . If I have fun we all will have fun and when it gets to a point that I'm not having fun ,none of us will have fun so it's your choice, let's have a fun game. When the pitcher takes the mound I will have a similar talk with them . While the catcher is getting warmed up I will talk to them also . During the game I'm always talking to the catchers and batters I don't want them to be intimidated by me and we usually have a good time . If a situation occurs that a player wants to express their opinion as long as they aren't out of line I'll hear what they have to say and if they want to get exited about something all I do is say I've heard enough let's play ball .As for the spectators they always see more and it seems they always know more rules than there are in the book I just block them out .The only thing that I hear from them is foul language anything other I don't hear it . If you don't argue with them pretty soon they will quiet down. If you look at the game as being a business the teams and players as being customers so to say . If you are all of the time flexing your muscle and throwing people out ,soon they won't come back . Next they will tell other teams hoe bad it is then they don't come back . Pretty soon there isn't enough team to play in your tournament or league and as an umpire .......guess what your not needed anymore . So the main thing I guess I'm trying to say is you must give respect to get respect. I know that there are players and coaches on here that I have umped and you will have to agree that there is very seldom any problems in my games . LETS ALL HAVE FUN .

I knew your mug looked familiar. Our JV girls always liked when you umped our games at Licking Heights. You always called a fair game and were very personable with the players and coaches. We need more like you.

 

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Check the rules

Just thinking out loud here, but what's to stop someone from exploiting this rule? i.e. send a stranger to the other side pretending to be an obnoxious fan of that team to get the coach tossed?

 

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LOL... usually a coach is going to come screaming that "Hey, they aren't even with my team" sort of comment.

This rule..which is in the books.. is a great rule and hardly ever enforced. Actually it was a Tournament Director in Dayton (not Beavercreek) that told us to enforce the rule at the umpire's meeting prior to stepping on the field.

That weekend it went so smooth.. and thus it was implemented at a few parks actually and not just my own events.

It's always fun to watch the coach go over to the parents to let them know in advance or to that specific parent.

 

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LOL... usually a coach is going to come screaming that "Hey, they aren't even with my team" sort of comment.

This rule..which is in the books.. is a great rule and hardly ever enforced. Actually it was a Tournament Director in Dayton (not Beavercreek) that told us to enforce the rule at the umpire's meeting prior to stepping on the field.

That weekend it went so smooth.. and thus it was implemented at a few parks actually and not just my own events.

It's always fun to watch the coach go over to the parents to let them know in advance.

Most umpires won't listen to anything the coach says once they've thrown the big E. Of course there's nothing stopping the coach from disowning his fans and falsely claiming ignorance. Seems to me a rule that should be used with discretion opposed to a policy of zero tolerance.

 

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If my players' parents were acting up, I would expect at least a warning to me from the umps before I or they got tossed, so I would have a chance to address it with them ... partially so I didn't get tossed but partially so their daughter doesn't get embarrassed. When I am coaching a game, I usually block out what's going on behind the fence and may not even be aware there's an issue unless told.

 

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Usually that is what happens.. a warning... and that is so the coach can address the issue.

It's usually not an immediate thing. Nobody wants to immediately throw out the coach without giving him or her the chance to address the issue.

I personally don't know any umpires that like throwing people out. I hear there are some.. but I haven't met any personally.

 

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This rule..which is in the books.. is a great rule and hardly ever enforced.

Okay, I have to ask...

Which association has this rule and what is the rule number?

 

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I've heard of different tournaments using this rule, but I don't believe it is in any NSA or ASA rule book. I think it is their own tournament rule.

 

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I've heard of different tournaments using this rule, but I don't believe it is in any NSA or ASA rule book. I think it is their own tournament rule.

That's kind of my point. This rule isn't "in the book". It might or might not be randomly or arbitrarily in place for some given tournaments (I've never personally worked one where it was), but it isn't a standard rule for most associations.

There might be some association out there where this is "standard operating procedure", which is part of the reason I asked. A quick glance through the ASA, NSA, USSSA, NFHS and NCAA rule book didn't turn up any such rule.

 

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ASA

"The umpires are the representative of the league or organization by which they have been assigned to a particular game and as such, are authorized and required to enforce each section of these rules. They have the power to order a player, coach, captain or manager to carry out or to omit any act which, in their judgement is necessary to give force and effect to one or all of these rules and to inflict penalties as herein prescribed.

( Now here is the next sentence and it no doubts gives the plate umpire a wide range of things he can do )

The plate umpire shall have the authority to MAKE DECISIONS ON ANY SITUATIONS NOT SPECIFICALLY COVERED IN THE RULES.


So that broad range of authority... and especialy if you cover the "coach's responsibility of his fans" speech at the home plate meeting PRIOR to the game.. it is there for the plate umpire to act on.


USSSA also has the "broad range rule" as well. I think it is in Rule 10.

 

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Does an umpire actually have authority to eject a spectator given by the sanction? Obviously it happens, but I'm assuming this is more of an authority given by (or supported by) the TD or league director rather than the sanctioning body.

 

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Does an umpire actually have authority to eject a spectator given by the sanction? Obviously it happens, but I'm assuming this is more of an authority given by (or supported by) the TD or league director rather than the sanctioning body.

Note that the ASA guideline gives umpires authority over players, coaches, captains and managers- ie: actual game participants. Absent from that list is spectators.

Generally, confronting speactators is something we are supposed to avoid. Tournament Directors will often pass the responsibility along to the umpires. Some individual leagues will do the same. In those cases, the tournament or league is either renting the facilities or owns them and they can come up with their own rules regarding out-of-control fans. But the rule of thumb laid out in rule books and umpire manuals is that we have no authority over fans in the seats.

I think that every association has some version of "the plate umpire has the authority to make decisions on points not covered by the rules" in their rule book. I'd call it a stretch to say that automatically gives an umpire the right to eject a coach if he also ejects a fan. Besides, this point is covered by the rules! The rule clearly lists who the umpires have authority over and spectators aren't on that list.