Ump walks off field in Pickerington

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As for the discussion of rules, I don't think that all of the differences amongst the governing bodies are going to be rectified any time soon, so I think Bretman's last comment about an umpires temperment is probably the most immportant. So, I will leave it at that.

 

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I wasn't offended, but now perhaps a little embarrassed not having known what the relationship with coach and flarays really was. I was only concered that if it was a genuine attempt to insult someone that Bear might delete it. Carry on gentlemen.

 

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I didn't think a TD could also coach in a tourney he was running. We were also at Pickerington this past weekend. The field ump was talking on his cell phone and made a bad call. He also interfered with the SS catching a pop up. >

 

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yeah, the mountain of a man behind the plate, impeded a pop up attempt for our catcher..oh well..

did someone spill a carton of sour grapes??? i keep getting them on my shoes... :-X

 

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All Pickerington people are bad, all Hudson people are good :. Sorry for the generalization, I was sitting right in front of the PC student section, and heard things that made PC's own coaches roll their eyes. Perhaps, if I were sitting in front of the "rich" Hudson side I would have heard the same things, and had a better view of the other side's coaches rolling THEIR eyes. Let's just say a lot of what I was hearing was spirited, and of a personal nature ... but it WAS coming from kids (mostly). Apologies if any of ours were acting the same way, we have spanked the ones we caught, and have taken away the BMW for 24 hours, they will have to drive the Escalade instead .

 

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Why are there soooo many discussions about the umpires!! I saw an umpire this past weekend at West Milton, call a ball foul when it hit at least 2 1/2 feet INSIDE of third base line. I was amazed. He walked up the line to the coach, who was pitching a fit...rightly so and quietly said, "you're correct, foul ball" and walked back behind home plate. He overturned that call because it was so blatant but there were so many he did not! He was terrible and no one knew what a strike was going to be...at the ankles or at the forehead...who knew!
I thought the game was about what was on the field ie: the girls playing ball, not some power-hungry goob in pads! All of the drills in the world cannot prepare these girls for the umps when they call these hairbrained calls or up and quit because they don't get their way. Is there anyway to rein this all back in? It is getting WAAAAAY out of hand. Where is the governing body to take these guys(and gals) out of circulation?

 

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It's because there are so many tournaments and league games that umps are in short supply and GOOD umps are in even shorter supply. ?I talked to a good friend that has done basketball for 30 years and he said ther are so many new refs just doing it for the money. ?He said in the old days they would do off season stuff for free just to get better as refs but now they all want to get some cash every time they do something. ?I am not saying that is right or wrong it is just the way it is. These umpires can make a couple hundred bucks in a weekend. ?At a tourney in Eastlake we had an ump from Texas that came here to make some money. ?

 

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Depends on which governing body you're talking about.

Some offer training and clinics. Some have mandatory testing. Some do regular evaluations and do not move their officials to the next level until they meet certain standards. Some require nothing more than for an official to pay an annual fee to register with them and work their games.

Factor in the alphabet soup of governing bodies- ASA, NSA, NFHS, USSSA, AFA, ISF, NCAA, to name but a few- each with their own guidelines, along with the fact that every region of the state will be covered by different umpire associations.

You can quickly see that there is no blanket, one-size-fits-all answer to your question.

 

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I too have voiced my fair share of disagreements with umpire calls but I think we all need to remember what a thankless job it is being an umpire. No matter how good an umpire may or may not be; there is absolutely no possible way for him/her to please everyone. They are human. They will make mistakes. At the end of the game, those missed calls usually even out. Most of them are really trying to do the job to the best of their abilities. Do you know anyone who is looking for a job as an umpire? We are lucky to have the ones we can get. I have seen our girls play with just one umpire and that is by far worse than two umpires who may or may not get every call correct. How about we thank them for the job they do...even if they don't always get it right. I bet some of the folks on this site make mistakes ocassionally too.

 

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I will throw in my opinion so be gentle

I run tournaments for the NSA. While our rulebook does not give umpires the authority to remove overzealous spectators, it does give them authority over the field of play. If that gentleman working the plate would have called a game in my tournament, the forfeit would have stood. Regardless of whether it was merited or if the umpire was just flat out having an awful day and had admittedly missed everything on the field, the game would have been 7-0 in favor of GFOD.

Pertaining to the issue with spectators, the UIC should have been behind the game at first to observe. If the UIC would have felt there was a problem, then the TD should have been down there doing his/her job which does entail asking parents and spectators to tone it down or be asked to leave the complex. Trust me, the last thing I want to do as a TD is go to a field because behavior has gotten out of control but it is part of my duties as TD whether I like it or not. If I ask someone to leave and they refuse, then I call the professionals referred to as Columbus' finest to let them escort folks out of the complex. Folks who have met me know that someone of my size usually wouldn't have much trouble getting people to leave, but that isn't what it is all about.

There is a right way to voice displeasure and then there is a wrong way. It's the wrong way that surfaces too often these days.

From what I recall, there is no sanctioning body involved here as this is more of a fundraiser tournament for Pickerington softball than a qualifier. NSA had been contacted a few years back about sanctioning this tournament, but the TD never followed thru with it.

Hopefully I have added something, if not then I apologize for sticking my nose in it.

 

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bretman
you are the very first umpire I have ever heard to say that the umpire should not listen to or engage with the fans, unless it gets "ugly". ?I couldn't agree more. ?Too many times, you'll hear a grumble from a fan about a call, and the umpire will start arguing the call with the fan! ?Umpires have to learn to take a little heat. ?And I do mean "a little". ?They should learn to tune out the over- vocal fans. ?Although only human, I must admit that it must be hard to hear over and over again how wrong you are from both sides all the time!

I will cite an example of a great umpire from the GAPSS tourney this weekend. ?It was a female; her strike zone left something to be desired (LOL), but she was consistent and fair. She was approachable and concerned about the game. ?Our game was very tight from beginning to end (ITB). It was a very good team. ?The other team's coaches were verbal (to be nice) from the very beginning. ?Not one time did she react to them or even look at them. ?The fans from both teams had a few minor gripes that they verbalized, but she never even acted like she heard it. ?There were a couple close calls at the plate, she was right on top of them, and they happened to go our way. ?The coaches for the other team came completely UNGLUED! Running out onto the field and getting in her face. ?It was insane. ?She just put her mask back on and the game continued. ?We were ahead by 1 and the other team was home team. ?They still had a chance to bat. ?A couple more close calls, more ungluing of the coaches, and the scorekeeper at this point. ?The scorekeeper actually came out onto the field. ?The coach yelled, "if you want to just give the game to them, then go ahead". ?Amazingly, she ignored all this and the game went on. ?
At games end, the hand-shaking was going on and a player from the other team actually stared down the umpire in what seemed like a very threatening way. ?The coach then yelled from the dugout "blue, you ought to be ashamed of yourself" ?to which she finally said "no sir, you're the one who ought to be ashamed". ?She then walked away with the other umpire. ?Then the player who was giving her the "stare-down" came out of the dugout and was saying "where is she, where is she?" ?She then turned to another player and said "I couldn't find her" ?The other player said "were you really gonna kill her?" and the player said "yeah" ?Now, I don't think she meant that she was really going to KILL the umpire, but just the same, where is this coming from that a 12/13 year old is acting like this? ?(Also, the umpire was never aware of the player's actions as far as I know.)
Although I think the umpire let it go too far in my opinion, she did what she was taught- to ignore the fans and the coaches bickering. ?Now, had the coaches come to her in a civilized manner and asked her about the calls, maybe she would have explained to them that the catcher dropped the ball, or the player never touched home, or whatever, but they never gave her that option. ?They just kept yelling at her. ?Our coach asked her quietly about the location of a ball she called, and she replied "just a little too outside", and he said "okay, thank you" and that was it. ?It is that easy, really!
I am also tired of the lazy red-neck umps we have had lately who seem to be there just for the money- BUT there are a lot of good ones out there too that deserve respect.

Not exactly on topic, but close.......

 

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I wasn't offended, but now perhaps a little embarrassed not having known what the relationship with coach and flarays really was. I was only concered that if it was a genuine attempt to insult someone that Bear might delete it. Carry on gentlemen.

hockeyebuckeye - you are my new favorite OFC poster. We have to try to keep these young punks in line. I just can not believe the total lack of respect we older guys get. It is shocking, just shocking.

I do have one issue with coach - his post total is really not more than mine. It is a falsehood - and he knows it...no reason to air dirty laundery here though.

Johnnies - thanks for the kind words. I do try to keep tabs on the Ohio scene. It is very different down here. BTW - you are doing a great job controlling the site. It is a great change over the tone back in the day!!

 

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SBmom34,

Thanks for sharing that story- off topic or not! ?

But I have to say that I have mixed emotions about what you saw. While it sounds like the umpire had a good attitude, and you certainly can't say that she was over-reacting to any of the antics from the coaches, there are times when an ejection is in order.

Frankly, from your description an ejection- or two!- might have been in order. I keep harping on umpires having a good temperment, game management skills and not looking for trouble. But when trouble finds you, you have to act accordingly.

A coach leaving his position, either the dugout or coach's box, and charging at an umpire to argue a call is an offense that can warrant an immediate ejection. Depending on what might have transpired up to that point, the ejection is at the umpire's discretion. If it is the first offense a warning might be in order.

This same thing happened to me in a game last week. Very close play at the plate, I called the runner out and the offensive coach comes unglued. He charged from the dugout screaming that the runner beat the throw.

I told him that's not how I saw it. Lucky for him he cooled off pretty fast, because charging onto the field puts a coach on thin ice. If he continues to push it he is getting closer and closer to being ejected. Before he returned to his dugout, I told him that if he entered the field to argue a call again, he would no longer be a participant in this game. That was his one warning (not required, but offered as a courtesy) and he was fairly quiet the rest of the game.

The coaches from your game went on to display several other actions that would have given the umpire every right to eject them.

Arguing balls and strikes is also grounds for ejection. Sure, you get grumbles on close pitches throughout the game and some moaning can be tolerated. But if the arguing becomes constant it needs to be addressed. Maybe one warning, depending on the circumstances, then eject on a repeat offense.

Strike three against these guys happens when their yelling goes from criticizing the calls to personally criticizing the umpire.

Comments such as, "C,mon, Blue, she beat the throw!", or, "She missed the tag!" are common in every game and should generally be ignored.

But when the yelling gets into personal attacks against the umpire, such as, "You are the worst umpire I've ever seen", or, "You should be ashamed of yourself", the coach has crossed a well-defined line that warrants an ejection.

Any one of these offenses might get a coach ejected and, at the least, should be addressed with a warning. All three taken together in one game should pratically be a guarantee that someone is sent to the showers.

And that is where I am getting mixed emotions. While much of the grumbling should be ignored, the rule book gives clear, black-and-white guidelines on certain offenses that can lead to an ejection. While I might critisize an umpire for being overly sensetive to complaints, the opposite is also true. There are times when an umpire must step up and put an end to unruly behavior.

By not dumping one of these guys, the umpire has allowed the game to continue under what you describe as "threatening conditions" (ie: the umpire may not have lost her cool, but she is losing control of the game). That type of atmosphere should not be tolerated in youth sports and the umpire has a duty to put an end to it.

The other problem I have is that by not acting upon these clearly ejectionable offenses, the coaches now have received the message that their behavior is acceptable. That can lead to an escalation in the rude behavior. It also means that the next umpire who works their next game is left to clean up the mess when these guys exhibit the same behavior they got away with in the game before.

There is a fine line between over-reacting and not reacting swiftly enough. While I applaud your umpire for keeping a cool head, the flip side is that sometimes an umpire is put in a position where bad behavior MUST be addressed.

There's an old saying that umpires do not eject coaches. Coaches eject themselves- by virtue of their own actions.

We just announce it! ?;D

 

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I heard an interesting call this past weekend by an umpire at the GAPSS tournament. It was the winner's bracket championship game. I happened to walk by and heard it, or I am not sure I would have believed it.

The pitcher had just pitched the ball, and the batter was getting ready to swing, when someone yelled something. I don't know if it came from a spectator or maybe a player in the dugout.

The field umpire immediately called "Time Out--verbal interference." A couple of people laughed, and the game resumed. There was no "no pitch" or anything. He just yelled it out, and then they continued playing. I have never heard of verbal interference before.

 

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I have never heard of verbal interference before.

Good! And I hope that you never do again because there is no such thing! >

 

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Bret,
Well stated answer on the ejections. If TD's want it to try and help stop it, have in the rules a suspension on their next game too if it's a pool game. If it's an elimination oh well....

 

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Of course, the facts never get straight when rumors spread.

1) I am the Co-TD of the Pickerington Invitational. The TD in question at the 12U Championship game was the Site Director (SD) and was not a coach on the Pickerington team. His daughter was the pitcher and he calls pitches for his daughter, but he does not coach bases or manage the team. I suppose one could argue that he still is a coach. Although there are always two sides to every story, we do not condone this type of behavior and have spoken with the coaches and parents. It is sad to hear some of the comments on this post as I/we try very, very, very hard to be fair to everyone, including the placement of teams. Someone in this post implied that there was favoritism for Pickerington teams in the scheduling. For the record, we do place the Pickerington teams first in the pools, accomodate the out of town teams (no Friday's) and then draw for the rest. The Pickerington teams are placed on a number in the pool (usually the first number) so that we can adequately staff the concession stands and do field maintenance. This avoids conflicts and all the parents can still see their kids play without being responsible for concessions. All the other teams are just a number and where ever you fell on the schedule is what you got.

2) As you all know, there were a bazillion teams in the GAPSS tournament. This caused a tremendous shortage of umpires. We were forced to use umpires that we have never worked with and there were a few problems. As many of you pointed out in this post, umpires can say things to ignite an arguement. I must also point out that there were 2 other teams arguing rules with umpires and with the TD, but the coaches didn't know the rules.

3) I was not present when this incident occured as we had four other championship games at Central HS. I've interviewed many, many people including the umpire and I think the decision to finish the game was the right one. We did not overrule the umpire. The statement on the field was: "either all the Pickerington fans go or I go". The SD said he's not ejecting all the fans, because of one statement from the fans. The umpire then dropped the softballs and walked off the field. There was absolutely no vulgarity, no profanity and no personal attacks from fans or the SD. However, they were questioning calls and making sarcastic comments. I will only say that it all started when the semi-final ended.....the umpire refused to give Pickerington time to warm up another pitcher. GFOD's game had finished earlier and was ready to go. The ump said 15 minutes for a break and to warm up a pitcher. 5 minutes later, he called them on the field. After the incident, the umpire stated he only wanted to get the coin flip out of the way, but on the field he was implying they were ready to start. Of course, it was all downhill from there.

4) I have been directing tournaments for many years (adult softball, Jr. Baseball and Fastpitch). I do this for the love of the game and to provide a fun, competitive atmosphere. We are embarassed that the incident happened, but we had to deal with it. Our Co-TD arrived at the park at the time the incident occured. He spoke with the umpire at length before making a decision. Our program and tournaments have been very successful and we want to continue to improve. We do not want a reputation as poor sports, especially in a tournament that we are hosting.

Again, I'm sorry this incident happened and assure you all that I will try my best to keep this from happening again.

 

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I wish more people understood what Tournament Directors go through... We too had an umpire shortage problem in Toledo. Coaches should understand that whatever happens that it is still a level playing field for both teams. If there is a bad call against your team because only one umpire is used, guess what?? There could be a bad call against the other team too. We always expect to have enough umpires, but sometimes things happen beyond our control. Sometimes we get umps that don't always make the right calls or know all of the rules.... for every team that it works against, there is also a team that it works for. So before you start complaining, you need to figure out which team that call will be going for. Trust me, we too want two umpires for each game.

 

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Oh Wow, how the facts become blurred........let's clear it up a bit. ?First, let me say that I was a "spectator" in the stands, behind home plate, when this whole "episode" took place. ?Make no mistake about a few things, 1) the Pick fans were absolutely making derogatory comments to the head ump, throughout the game, it didn't only happen the one time. ?2) the "coach-like" individual who was calling pitches for Pick, sat in the dugout and assisted in coaching the team, who we are now told was not a coach (please) DID CLEARLY STATE, ON THE FIELD, the he WAS the TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR for the Pick tournament. ?(Maybe they aren't sure who really does hold that position at this point). ?3) As far as the scheduling of the games, it would certainly be in Pick's best interest to make a few changes, without a doubt, the schedule appeared to "favor" Pickerington, whether it was meant to or not. ?It is what it is. ?4) Now, for the Umpires, there were 2 umpires on the field at all times, and I must say, they were fair and overall they did a great job. (The "Ump-Bashing" is getting old). ?The field umpire was one of the best I've seen all year. ?The Umpire did tell the Pick Coach that his fans had to go (after enduring their heckling for nearly 6 full innings) and the Coach refused to do so. ?The Umpire then clearly stated to the man that claimed to be the "tournament director", "EITHER YOU SUPPORT MY DECISIONS OR I CAN'T UMPIRE THIS GAME ANY LONGER", at that point the ALL of the Pickerington Coaches were on the field and yelled "BYE". ?It was humiliating for me, just watching this play out, I can only imagine how that Umpire felt. ?It was shameful. ?The Umpire then walked off the field and left the tournament. ?The field Umpire then was approached by the coaches and I simply heard him say "I completely support my partner" meaning the head Umpire who had left. ?The GFOD team was getting a bit uptight at this point, wondering what was going to happen (especially since they were about the run rule the Pick team and end the tournament), and the "coach-like" individual went over to their dug-out area and clearly stated AGAIN, that he was the TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR and he was going to have another umpire there as soon as possible. ?They all waited and when the new umpire finally arrived, GFOD ended the game in a matter of about 10 minutes and it was over. ?5) Now, I must make one last comment; Alan Tharp stated that this all began between the Pick team and the Umpire when the Pick team was not allowed ample time to rest & warm up, which again was not true. ?The Thunder team did end their semi-final game a bit sooner, so they were ready to play, but they had played the 2 games prior to the Final, back to back, which is certainly NOT uncommon in travel ball. ?Breaks are a luxury and are NOT guaranteed. ?That's just how it is. ?The Umpire did allow the Pick team time to warm-up as I sat in the bleachers and watched them do so for quite some time, including warming up their pitchers. ?The simple fact is, when its game time, YOU PLAY! ?Whether it inconveniences the team or not, is completely beside the point. ?These tournaments are tightly scheduled games and teams must go to them prepared to play without long breaks in between. ?Its true, when the Umpire walked off the field, NONE of the coaches knew for sure if the game would end by forfeit or what ruled applied in that situation. ?Its fortunate that the teams were able to complete the game and end it fairly, that way there is no doubt about the end result. ?I'm confident that everyone in attendance learned a thing or two. ?Let me just say, Alan Tharp's post was encouraging, as he was apologetic and left me feeling as if this type of situation would not happen again in Pickerington. ?I just hope the "other Pick tournament director" is in agreement! :-/

 

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Whatever happened to sportsmanship? I continue to be shocked with the behavior of coaches at tournamend games. I agree that there has been some questionable calls but we are teching our players it is OK to question authority in inappropriate means. It is possible to be a dominant team and not act like arrogant babies. I watched the Valley Extreme Red win the 12U division Sunraze Slam and that team was all class even though there were some bad calls in the game.