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Howard I think you will start seeing this in Ohio in the next five years. Heard one team thought about it this year but did not do it. And thank you for what you have done for Ohio softball.
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In my opinion, there are maybe only 1 or 2 organizations that could probably pull it off...(albet at a MUCH smaller amount- say $25 nonrefundable- if you make the team, it goes towards your fees, if you don't make the team then the money goes to a predetermined charity such as Breast Cancer).
As a parent, I would probably pay the $25 under these circumstances IF it were a team I was interested in. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.
As a parent, I would probably pay the $25 under these circumstances IF it were a team I was interested in. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.
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Len I do not claim anything.... "He would not have near the number of pupils that he can claim to have now."
Len I have or have had girls and boys at Ohio State, Ohio U., Cleveland, Detroit, Valpro, Youngstown, WSU, Dayton, Georgia, NKU, Thomas Moore, Mt. St. Joe, George Town, U of L, Belermine, Hanover, Hope, Capital, Mt. Vernon, Otterbein, Urbana, Memphis, Evangel, Chathman, Latrobe, Prinction, Charleston, NCCU, Furmon, Heidelberg, IWU, Whittenburg, Carson Newman, University of the Cumberland's, Liberty, Hitter23 daugther and I can not remember the name, Marion, NCCU, West Virgina State, Alderson, Blue Field, Cumberland, Beria, Tiffin, plus 4 boys in the Frontier league and one with a minor league contract with the White Sox's and I coached the CNST team for 2.5 years and went from 6 place to fourth place in the ISF and worked with 7 Team USA players. Sorry if I left anyone out!
I never broke anyone's arm to come to me and just tried to help.
It is interesting to see how California teams operate and Ohio teams who claim to be the best of the best operate and the West Coast Teams can command the try out fees when the Ohio (Midwest area) think they are doing their best when in fact this is exactly why the D1 schools recruit from the West.
If parents truly understood what it takes to play at the next level they would be shocked to find out how hard the kids must work to get there!
A lot of people volunteer their time to help others and that is understood and if I charged I think I would still have the number of kids as the results have proven them self.
Parents will pay a lot of money to improve their kids however they must also see the results and ours is public for the most part as to making it to the next level.
If the parents want to make it to the next level with their kids they must work for it and not wish for it!
When the California teams charge for a try out they put their money where their mouth is and probably realize the competition they are up against.
Yes it is also at the higher age groups, however consider what it is they are being taught at 8 through 14 and I find it.......you fill in the blanks.
My post was about the affordibility factor, not your abilities whatsoever. Many people that have come to you simply would not be able to afford your services if you charged an elite fee....that's all.
California is a different world than Ohio. Everything is much more expensive in So.CA. Heck, I'd have to be a millionaire if I lived in So.CA in order to do the things I do here in OH. You will not see tryout fees like that here in OH for some time.
Club volleyball charges a non-refundable fee between $10 and $20 for tryouts. The fee is charged to cover the cost of renting the venue where the tryouts are being held. That could also be a factor in CA for the softball organizations out there.
Len
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Last year at the 50 team showcase in Indy a question was ask of Crystl about practice and she said her team practiced on Sundays from 9 to 5 and the parents made lunch for the kids. She went on to say practice was the time for the coaches to evaluate what you had done since last week and had you made any improvements in your skills.
Then Crystl added how many of you had practiced this week knowing 20 to 30 college coaches were going to be here? She counted down 6,5,4,3, 2,1.
Two girls raised their hands at 2 and about 7 at 1! There were at least 75 to 100 girls and a whole lot of parents.
She then added your parents have spent money on hotels, food, gas and equipment and time off from work to get you here and you did not work on your own to improve! You knew the coaches would be here and yet you did nothing to get better. She told the parents you are wasting your money and to stay in a rec league and take the $2500 to $4000 you are spending on travel ball and put it in a college fund.
Some of you need to do a gut check of your daughters abilities, verses your perception of reality in that she does not practice enough to improve herself to compete at the next level. When you have to make her practice or bride her to practice something is wrong.
I have done clinics in California and toured with the CNST and observed what and how they do it and it is at another level compared to here and that goes for college clinics in the Midwest!
I have heard all the excuses for not practicing in 22 years. We deal with divorced parents with shared custody where the dad helps her practice and the mom does nothing so the daughter feels like dad is picking on her when ever he has her AND THEY DO NOT GO TO THE MOVIES LIKE HER AND MOM DO. Then the question was asked by me why doesn't your mom ever bring you over here. She does not like softball! So dad in this case is the bad guy because you want to play ball in college?????
We have divorced parents who live in apartments and we have made special practice bats they can use indoors that attach to the door so they can use the stretch cords, then they do the matrix drill and hit rolled up socks off the tee in the house. The neighborhood is unsafe for them to be outside so it is another way to take away the excuse for them to practice and improve.
If there was an elite team in this area that had some coaches like they have in California, that have been a feeder system to top D1 schools you would pay to be on that team. The only catch is could your daughter make the team as the money is not a factor as it comes down to ability now.
Are you willing to do what ever it takes to practice and be the best or do you just want to brag my daughter is going to X college? Put up the money if you think she is that good however deep down inside you know and reality sets in.....in my opinion.
This time of year brings out the best and worst in some parents, coaches and yes organizations and yet it still comes down to your daughters abilities and work ethic and their time management if they even have any as most are told what to do and when to do it.
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I would hope for $500 they get a lot closer look than the typical tryout here. Say at least 5 ground balls instead of 3.
The cost numbers being tossed around are amazing. $7500 to play ball? It's a poor investment here in our market, those numbers throw any concept of an investment right out the window and it becomes a pretty expensive indulgement. (It IS an expensive enough indulgement here as it is!) If the market wil bear it, more power to them. Seems like one could play polo or take up sailing at those prices.
The cost numbers being tossed around are amazing. $7500 to play ball? It's a poor investment here in our market, those numbers throw any concept of an investment right out the window and it becomes a pretty expensive indulgement. (It IS an expensive enough indulgement here as it is!) If the market wil bear it, more power to them. Seems like one could play polo or take up sailing at those prices.
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I did take it with a sense of humor. All I'm saying is I would'nt drop one thin dime to have my kid tryout. If this is about the elite teams being innundated with sub-par talent at their tryouts why not nip it in the bud in your posting. Say something like seeking elite level players only, please send stats and the schedule of venues you played at for consideration. That way you can all pretend to be D-1 coaches.
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Len thanks for the clarification.
It feels good to be able to help others and the reason we do it comes from the heart. We have indeed been very fortunate to be able to do this.
What makes it all worth while is when a kid gets cut or does not make a team and then comes back and takes someones elses spot or moves up so to speak for another team and starts as a freshman in college.
Having kids at D1 is nice however having over 80 plus kids that attended college to play baseball and soft ball is what it is all about as some of these kids would never have been able to attend. Grades are a must as is work ethic as these kids will be doing 20 to 30 hours of ball in college a week and it is like a part time job and it is a tryout every year as to if you be one of the 18 to make the team.
I am within about two years of having one of our former students who is married now bringing their kid over for lessons and we will have come full circle.
Many of our girls are helping coach the younger one now and giving back so the circle of life is actually working and it makes me smile to see it.
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Read some of the postings of parents bashing the organizations, coaches and other parents, umpires and read into it that they want their monies worth and they demand umpires to be able to be perfect and coaches to be experts in every facet of the game and life.....then explain why the daughter does not practice on her own to improve and why most parents blame it on everyone else other than them self.
When a team tries to put together a butt kicking team by charging up front to even try out, then only the serious need apply IF that is the level of ball you are choosing to play. In life there are challenges and I am repeating myself, some of these kids have no clue and their parents think they are Jennie Finch or Crystl Bustos and some of the coaches think they are Coach Candrea. :lmao:
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I have known of a team that did have a $250 dollar non -refundable try out fee. this team did it every year and would have about 150 kids at their one and only try out. and those kids would come from out of state even to try out. The coach of this team told me that when those kids came to try outs they were all outstanding softball players. the fee kept the players that were not serious away. This system also allowed them to afford to really go to any tournament they wanted and it was not un common for this team to get on a plane to go some where. That team is no longer around, because it was not an organization it was just one team and all of his players are now playing college ball. the other thing about it was that the kids that made the team did not pay for anything else including hotel stays and team meals.
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West coast vs. Midwest mindset--for some of the legal work I do for less than $2K, a West Coast firm would charge 10K just to walk in the door...My house is 20% of the value here it would be in rural CA, and only about 10% of what it would be worth in Orange County, San Fran,. etc. I would not mind paying something to try out IF the team was HONEST about its needs and number of openings up front. Don't tell me you "need every spot, fair and honest evals, etc." only to find out you have 30 kids there for one spot that was already promised to someone....don't waste my time and money and ruin your org. rep by lying. My credibility is worth a lot more than any tryout fee, the orgs should be too.
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from a resonse on a similar thread...
My boss just back from taking his 12 year old son to Nashville for a baseball tourney. They faced a southern team that rostered 19 and each families fee was $4000. To tryout...it is a $600 non-refundable fee. Granted in baseball pitch count is a major issue so they carried 6-9 pitchers with various abilities.
My boss just back from taking his 12 year old son to Nashville for a baseball tourney. They faced a southern team that rostered 19 and each families fee was $4000. To tryout...it is a $600 non-refundable fee. Granted in baseball pitch count is a major issue so they carried 6-9 pitchers with various abilities.
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In my opinion it is the Mid West mindset that their kid is a star and that hard work is not required and practice is once a week with the team and show up for game day and since we paid a team fee our daughter is expected to play on game day. And the umpires better be the best in the world and not make a mistake or take the game out of the kids hands as they work so hard and deserve better!
It has to do with parental expectations of what their kids should be in their mind verses their kids ability in reality and most are not even through puberty yet! Being able to match your child's ability and finding the right fit is the secret as to organization, coaches, team mates and yes the other dreaded parent. Finding the right chemistry is difficult to do.
I hear it in the stands at 12 to 15 years old, a player is ask to sacrifice bunt and the parents says it loud enough for everyone to hear, why does my child have to sacrifice every time there is a runner on base? She will never have a batting average and the colleges will never look at her!
I think charging to try out sets an expectation that you may have a grasp on what your child can do and it may be similar to the coaches ability to manage and teach your child that is running the team.
Maybe it should separated to further levels other than rec or A and B.
Maybe the softball world needs to explore the Zoccer world further to what and how they train their kids to prepare them for the next level.
When you see the number of injuries that your daughters incur and then have no knowledge of ACL prevention programs it makes me wonder if you truly understand your daughters are predisposed to shoulder, ACL and ankles injuries and it would appear outwardly by the postings that it is not a concern as it does not draw the hits as does a bad coach, umpire, TD, no bathrooms, cooler checks or parking lot fees :lmao:
Then the best is what bat will make your daughter a better hitter, composite, end loaded or balanced and again their ability to use it is never questioned....however if she gets lucky and gets a hit lets make that one hit count for something anyway
Kind of like legal work as you pointed out and if your life is on the line...who do you trust as you all passed your boards so you are all created equal....right!
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I you are so worried about making money at try outs then why not have a concession stand have. This would be a legal way of making money for your team. And it seems this post has nothing to do with the players but everything to do with the almighty $$$.
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What is the point of comparing CA teams to OH teams?? And why anyone want to limit the number of players they have coming to tryouts? What am I missing here...? I think there are a lot of people on the OFC posting this and that about Gold and Elite teams and trying to belittle them and convince anyone they can that no such teams really exist....I wonder why? Seems like there are more important things to gab about, but maybe not?
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Centerville FP one reason to want a limit. . .tryout hoppers that have no intention of leaving their teams going to a tryout just for practice. . .
Here's my problem from the coaches prospective. I have a limited amount of time to watch a number of girls. If someone comes to a tryout that has no intentions of leaving their current team, it is wasting my valuable time at tryouts. I would rather just have players showing up that honestly are considering your team as an option, therefore there desire to tryout for an organization.
JMHO
Here's my problem from the coaches prospective. I have a limited amount of time to watch a number of girls. If someone comes to a tryout that has no intentions of leaving their current team, it is wasting my valuable time at tryouts. I would rather just have players showing up that honestly are considering your team as an option, therefore there desire to tryout for an organization.
JMHO
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In my opinion you truly miss the point as it is not about making money.
If you think your daughter is that good, then you probably have a handle on what she has or has not done to allow her to compete at a try out with other athletes and parents that feel their daughters are that good also and are willing to compete for a spot on a the team and will put the money up to prove it.
This is why they charge so their time is not wasted and the parents and players and coaches are committed towards a single goal of being the BEST team with the talent they can put together.
In the end it is all about the kids having fun IF the parents will let them!
For the kids some of them like playing with their friends and having fun and then you the parents take the fun out of it and then the parents or adults like to show how much smarter they are than the kids and other adults and make them look inferior and the learning of the sport IS forgotten for the almighty dollar! :lmao:
Parents that know me or have been here have heard me say why buy a bat that costs $300 dollars when you as parents can not even show them how to use a $7 dollars hammer or shift their weight!
Then you complain about the quality of coaches, TD's, other players or parents and of course the blind umpires is always a good topic.
The thread was would you pay for a tryout considering what the potential may be as to coaching and talent on the team?
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I would not expect an honest answer to this question however how many of you attended tryouts just to see where your daughters athletic ability was verses some one elses and was the grass greener on the other team?:lmao:
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Great question Hitter! To that I would add, and did you knowingly attend with no intentions of committing?
I know they are out there. . . .
I know they are out there. . . .
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I see your point, but I look at it as an opportunity to change their minds!! Put on an organized, informative tryout and that shows the parents how the organization is run. You would be surprised how many of those with no intention of signing have been turned....you just never know. I look at every girl coming to a try out as an opportunity for her anf our team...
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