Will Lack of Consistency slow competitive growth in Fastpitch?

BouldersDad

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I agree with the standard being set but how do you go about it. College coaches tell me that kids come to them now with much less skill set and game sense than they used to. Quote: The game is about the athletes and the development of the athletes:quote. That in my opinion is what is lacking most in today's game. I just dont think there are enough good quality coaches and instructors to ensure that the development is taking place.
 

Ri-domination

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Agreed Tim, wins and losses are great everyone likes them and they help keep and attract talent but colleges don't recruit whole teams generally, they recruit individuals. Those individuals need to have skill sets and be developed. Kids needs proper instruction and be developed into well rounded savvy players. Isn't that why showcases don't keep score? I do believe that's why some teams will play up alot, not because they are worried about win/loss but for development. Just my thought...
 

cobb_of_fury

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I agree with the standard being set but how do you go about it. College coaches tell me that kids come to them now with much less skill set and game sense than they used to. Quote: The game is about the athletes and the development of the athletes:quote. That in my opinion is what is lacking most in today's game. I just dont think there are enough good quality coaches and instructors to ensure that the development is taking place.
This is true - I always said "When I'm these kid's best bet for a coach we need to find better coaching" - That's not to say I don't know what I'm doing - I mean to say I wish there were a higher skill set then mine available to coach. I wish there were more dedicated people to act as Non Parent coaches - Guys who have gotten their daughter to and through collage who can come back and take a 10U team and start again. But it's a ton of work and hard and frustrating when it is your kids team how much harder when you have no real ties to the team.
There is not enough money to pay professional coaches to do it. I have only been involved in softball - how do other sports work?
I think there is a growing gap between the elite teams and the rest - the elite teams can charge higher rates bring in experienced coaches have great facilities do better tournaments and get the better players. The rest can't front that kind of expense.
I think you will see less and less of the D1 (and probably D2 and D3 Players) coming from the 'Other teams" The best players will all move on to Elite teams leaving a secondary and tertiary level of players to struggle through. And I certainly do not blame them at this point it may be the only path.
In the past few years I have seen a number of Historically Good teams - from organizations that in the past have placed some number of girls in good programs up and leave to join the elite organizations for fear they would not get a proper look where they were.
I sure don't know how to fix it
We are getting close to the time where all of this is going to matter to us My DD starts middle school ball this year high school in another year after that - we will have to make choices.

I have a friend who is a D1 Coach and she said the reason they tend to go after girls from CA and TX is that girls (and by extention organizations) around here just don't understand what it takes to play D1
 

SoCal_Dad

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The author's initial theme is inconsistent rules across orgs, but doesn't provide any examples. It reads like classic sour grapes.

I found the issue about pitching distance curious - "the rubber was placed at the wrong distance for the first three rounds of games. Nobody had bothered to actually measure the distances before the event started." How far were they off? A large difference of 3' (e.g. 40' instead of 43') would be noticed by the pitchers right away. I suspect it was a small variance that would only be noticed with a tape measurer.

It's not hard to figure out the org - the mission statement excerpt indicates PGF. The author says "The national organization that put their name on this event should know when their mission is not being met, those who stray from the mission should be held accountable." Yet, I'm confident they posted the article and didn't report it to the national organization. If it was as bad as they say, the right thing to do is encourage as many teams as possible to report it to someone that can do something about it. Isolated reports are likely to be brushed off, so they need corroboration from other teams - preferably from teams that won.

That said, PGF qualifiers are not uniform across the board because it's not a trivial matter to set up a national network of qualifiers. PGF's primary concern is locating qualifiers where they will draw the best teams to their championships and they refine it every year. They don't have a lot of options in many areas/regions, so it is a balancing act between location and host TD. The national board does take credible feedback into consideration when planning out the next year's qualifiers.

Added: Did any of the previous posters actually read the article?
 
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cobb_of_fury

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Yea - I was just thinking about that; I did read it (was thinking about some tournaments I have been parts of and some of the struggles and frustration.)
But... got off on a tangent from BD's response -
 

BouldersDad

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That was what stood out to me. The rest was as you said had the sound of sour grapes.
 

coachjwb

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I read the article and it did sound mostly like sour grapes. As for the question raised (i.e.. will lack of consistency slow growth), I believe the answer is "no". Yes, there are inconsistencies in rules, field conditions and umpire quality, but there are inconsistencies in all products and services we buy, but people don't quit buying the product if it's bad quality ... they just quit buying that brand or at that store, and go buy it somewhere else. Most people who exhibit sour grapes about things probably won't be in a position to be "buyers" in the future anyhow ... they've simply lost their interest in the product and/or don't have what it takes to really enjoy it anyhow. I will be glad to explain that more if I need to ...
 

FPN

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The author's initial theme is inconsistent rules across orgs, but doesn't provide any examples. It reads like classic sour grapes.

I found the issue about pitching distance curious - "the rubber was placed at the wrong distance for the first three rounds of games. Nobody had bothered to actually measure the distances before the event started." How far were they off? A large difference of 3' (e.g. 40' instead of 43') would be noticed by the pitchers right away. I suspect it was a small variance that would only be noticed with a tape measurer.

It's not hard to figure out the org - the mission statement excerpt indicates PGF. The author says "The national organization that put their name on this event should know when their mission is not being met, those who stray from the mission should be held accountable." Yet, I'm confident they posted the article and didn't report it to the national organization. If it was as bad as they say, the right thing to do is encourage as many teams as possible to report it to someone that can do something about it. Isolated reports are likely to be brushed off, so they need corroboration from other teams - preferably from teams that won.

That said, PGF qualifiers are not uniform across the board because it's not a trivial matter to set up a national network of qualifiers. PGF's primary concern is locating qualifiers where they will draw the best teams to their championships and they refine it every year. They don't have a lot of options in many areas/regions, so it is a balancing act between location and host TD. The national board does take credible feedback into consideration when planning out the next year's qualifiers.

Added: Did any of the previous posters actually read the article?

Thanks for the feedback. I wrote the article and would be more than happy to discuss it.

1. Examples of inconsistent rules: You are correct I should have listed examples, I made the assumption that people reading this had been to different events like ASA and PGF. Where rules do vary often from event to event.
2. It was off by 3 feet (the rubber). I agree people before us should have noticed. We noticed when our pitcher who is a DI recruit struck out the first 9 and we were the ones that pointed it out and had it measured. Why didn't other coaches or pitchers point it out? Not sure. Also note that the picture with the opinion is an actual picture of the fields.
3. You state you are confident that the national organization was NOT contacted. Well you would be wrong they were notified immediately. They were notified by three of the top four teams including the team that won.
4. I disagree with your comment about it being hard for PGF to coordinate the tournaments etc... This is what they do and they should do it well. In most cases they do and I think in most cases they have excellent events. I also do not agree that they only make decisions to bring in the best teams. But that is a different topic.

Based on your comments I would guess (and me be wrong) you are tied to PGF in some shape or fashion. That is great. I do like the feedback and I think you make some valid points, but I also think you made a few assumptions.

As for sour grapes, not so much but I can understand that view. It was written as an Op-Ed. My opinion which at the time was not a high one of the event I was at.
 

FPN

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I read the article and it did sound mostly like sour grapes. As for the question raised (i.e.. will lack of consistency slow growth), I believe the answer is "no". Yes, there are inconsistencies in rules, field conditions and umpire quality, but there are inconsistencies in all products and services we buy, but people don't quit buying the product if it's bad quality ... they just quit buying that brand or at that store, and go buy it somewhere else. Most people who exhibit sour grapes about things probably won't be in a position to be "buyers" in the future anyhow ... they've simply lost their interest in the product and/or don't have what it takes to really enjoy it anyhow. I will be glad to explain that more if I need to ...

I see your point, but disagree in the sense that uniformity in rules and consistency IMO do slow growth specifically if the goal is to someday reach a broader fan base. We want softball back in the Olympics correct? Would that be considered growth? I would say yes. One reason the IOC states that it will not be in is lack of fan interest. They also state that not enough teams are competitive etc... Again this was not simply sour grapes. I observed and shared a perspective for the purpose of discussion, which it appears it has generated. I know I not necessarily "right" or "wrong" but I am happy that some if the issues are being discussed on a great forum by the way.

Nice to meet all of you as well.
 

coachjwb

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FPN ... thanks for joining the Forum and sharing your opinion and perspective here ... it helps when the person who wrote the article being critiqued is able to explain it more. We will not usually all agree here, but that's what keeps things interesting!

Jeff Baker
 

SoCal_Dad

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Thanks for the feedback. I wrote the article and would be more than happy to discuss it.
Cool.

1. Examples of inconsistent rules: You are correct I should have listed examples, I made the assumption that people reading this had been to different events like ASA and PGF. Where rules do vary often from event to event.

The differences in rule sets are fairly minor. You wrote "I will regress to point out several things that I observed this past weekend to frame the overall point better." You certainly regressed, but you failed to deliver on framing your point. Were you the parent in the stands that was berated by the umpire?

2. It was off by 3 feet (the rubber). I agree people before us should have noticed. We noticed when our pitcher who is a DI recruit struck out the first 9 and we were the ones that pointed it out and had it measured. Why didn't other coaches or pitchers point it out? Not sure. Also note that the picture with the opinion is an actual picture of the fields.

Beyond belief earlier pitchers didn't notice. Are you sure there wasn't a 12U game before yours? Was the water on the field from rain? Please provide more info about when the picture was taken in relation to games played.

3. You state you are confident that the national organization was NOT contacted. Well you would be wrong they were notified immediately. They were notified by three of the top four teams including the team that won.

Good - what was PGF's response? BTW, which qualifier was this?

4. I disagree with your comment about it being hard for PGF to coordinate the tournaments etc... This is what they do and they should do it well. In most cases they do and I think in most cases they have excellent events. I also do not agree that they only make decisions to bring in the best teams. But that is a different topic.

Easy to type, much harder to do in the real world.

Based on your comments I would guess (and me be wrong) you are tied to PGF in some shape or fashion. That is great. I do like the feedback and I think you make some valid points, but I also think you made a few assumptions.

I'm not tied to PGF, but I know people that are. My DD was involved in high-level TB in SoCal before PGF's inception, so I know its entire history and what things were like before that. I respect them, however I don't shy away from criticizing them when it's warranted.

As for sour grapes, not so much but I can understand that view. It was written as an Op-Ed. My opinion which at the time was not a high one of the event I was at.

Complaining about facilities, umpires and strike zones are classic sour grapes. You tried to dress it up by wrapping it with some idealized notions and cliches, but it is what it is.
 

FPN

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Cool.

1. Examples of inconsistent rules: You are correct I should have listed examples, I made the assumption that people reading this had been to different events like ASA and PGF. Where rules do vary often from event to event.

The differences in rule sets are fairly minor. You wrote "I will regress to point out several things that I observed this past weekend to frame the overall point better." You certainly regressed, but you failed to deliver on framing your point. Were you the parent in the stands that was berated by the umpire?

2. It was off by 3 feet (the rubber). I agree people before us should have noticed. We noticed when our pitcher who is a DI recruit struck out the first 9 and we were the ones that pointed it out and had it measured. Why didn't other coaches or pitchers point it out? Not sure. Also note that the picture with the opinion is an actual picture of the fields.

Beyond belief earlier pitchers didn't notice. Are you sure there wasn't a 12U game before yours? Was the water on the field from rain? Please provide more info about when the picture was taken in relation to games played.

3. You state you are confident that the national organization was NOT contacted. Well you would be wrong they were notified immediately. They were notified by three of the top four teams including the team that won.

Good - what was PGF's response? BTW, which qualifier was this?

4. I disagree with your comment about it being hard for PGF to coordinate the tournaments etc... This is what they do and they should do it well. In most cases they do and I think in most cases they have excellent events. I also do not agree that they only make decisions to bring in the best teams. But that is a different topic.

Easy to type, much harder to do in the real world.

Based on your comments I would guess (and me be wrong) you are tied to PGF in some shape or fashion. That is great. I do like the feedback and I think you make some valid points, but I also think you made a few assumptions.

I'm not tied to PGF, but I know people that are. My DD was involved in high-level TB in SoCal before PGF's inception, so I know its entire history and what things were like before that. I respect them, however I don't shy away from criticizing them when it's warranted.

As for sour grapes, not so much but I can understand that view. It was written as an Op-Ed. My opinion which at the time was not a high one of the event I was at.

Complaining about facilities, umpires and strike zones are classic sour grapes. You tried to dress it up by wrapping it with some idealized notions and cliches, but it is what it is.

More than happy to discuss this but can we stop with the assumptions and putting words in peoples mouths. Also the back handed snide remarks and I think we can have a positive discussion.

PGF reaction was one reason I wrote the article, Basically they are saying what you are, its hard to monitor such things etc... Second, the picture was before our game started yes it rained overnight and this is what the field looked like 45 mins before the games. (NJ qualifier)

Sour grapes is when someone says we got screwed. I am explaining what I saw and observed. So I should just keep that to myself otherwise I am just grumpy and have sour grapes? Okay.

Your keyboard comment is simple avoidance. You make assumptions about me and my background assuming I have never ran an event or participated on a national organization. Wrong assumption. If they can not manage it right then why do it. No need to makes excuses. We improve things by questioning and looking at what can improve.
 

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