Winning/ sitting- helping a team win/ playing...

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I'm trying to understand better what causes a great ball player to want to sit for a team that is dominate? There are some fantastic players out there that aren't getting much playing time but to talk to some parents the bottom line is the W! Now I've heard kids do this for college coaches and recruiters to see them, I call BS at the 12u level. Even if that is the case, how much is your kid gonna be seen if her rear is on the bench?? I've heard strength of schedule. Fair argument .. Would you think the team would play a tougher schedule if they had more competitive players?? Which ties into the 1st 2 here, college coaches see your kid on the field instead of on the bench because your talented daughter allowed a team to play a tougher schedule. I've heard kids don't wanna be the "best kid" on the team. Again, BS. This helps the kid become a leader/ captain which colleges love! I've heard kids wanna play with more talented kids. I can agree.. But to not play your position or pick splinters out of your rear to do that is craziness. I've heard parents say with pride, my dd plays for ------ but is a back up with a complete smile on their faces! LOL. These girls wanna play ball, key word is PLAY! My question is why get in the game!? Is it because of popularity? " look at the name on the front of my shirt"?? You want more competition, a tougher schedule? You want your daughter to get seen as a 12u player by colleges ( lol ) then get her rear off the bench and on a team that needs her skills, her talent that will put her on the field where she belongs and give her playing time in the same tourneys the "popular" teams play in!....

I'm looking into more insight into this and why? Honestly I don't understand this! I've seen awesome kids, talented ball players just sit even the entire tournaments! When my group is 2 or 3 players away from being able to play in the PGF or big ASA tourneys...

I just can't see why the bench is more important than playing??
 
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I think there are those who consider that to be a supporting position and that means that they are part of the bigger picture, and still real team players. I have a friend whose daughter has such a roll on a school basketball team and neither the kid nor the parent mind. She gets to play a bit and doesn't feel lot of pressure-best of both worlds for her. Maybe they value what the kids are learning at practice and see that as a growth opportunity and will look for more playing time next year? Who knows, but everyone has their reasons.
 
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Tell me, if these players come play for you, who is sitting? Unless you carry only 9 players, someone will always be sitting. The girls who play for a team, knowing they are not the starter, are aware that they have to work to earn that spot. Competition breeds excellence. That is how the dominant teams dominate. Their "bench players" are almost as good as their starters and they are working hard to take that spot. Good coaches aren't taking bodies to fill spots. They are taking players to compete.
 
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Billy, kids do want to play. I think there has to be a balance between playing and winning. For example, a player might start every game and bat exactly in the lineup where she wants. But if they are always going 2 and out in every tourney, you can bet after a few of these, she might not be a happy camper. Parents also start to come unglued. Also, what if she is the number one pitcher and she is constantly getting the other team to pop up and hit ground balls. The fielders can't make the plays and she ends up having to stay out there forever before getting 3 outs. I think that some players will give up some, not all playing time, to have a chance to compete. I can't see why any coach would have a girl sit out for an entire tourney. In pool play, play everyone. You might be surprised at what some players can do in games.
 
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Billy-
I really appreciate your post. It is a good one. Here is my explanation. On really good teams, there are really tough schedules. There are girls that will sit the bench late on Sundays. There are pool play games and "early Sunday" games too. During pool play and early on Sunday, these "benchers" players will play. I would rather my DD face amazing pitching and field amazing hitters for 2-3 games in a tournament, rather than have her play 6-7 games facing mediocre pitching and mediocre fielding. Also when another posted earlier that he doesn't want his DD to be the best on the team, I totally agree. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for being surrounded by studs. That is how you become one, by seeing what it takes in warm-ups, game performance, training, attitude. You have a benchmark to live with. And I also think the leader team isn't always the best player.
 
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Billy ... some kids do just want to play, and those kids aren't going to be happy on a dominant team where they are frequently riding the bench. Other kids are OK to be on a dominant team with really good coaches where they are learning how to be a better player ... and by the way, I have yet to see a team where a player sits the whole tournament unless they are injured, so I think that is an exaggeration. I agree with you that some people get carried away by the whole exposure thing at a young age, and yeah, there's a few parents that just want to brag their kid's on a good team. But those really good teams aren't going to put players on their team who aren't at a similar level to the rest of the team. Players on good teams spend a lot more time practicing than playing whether they are starters or not. Over time, players usually seek their own level.
 
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At 12u .. Sitting for any amount of time can't be good. I can agree with the learning from the coach and good practices.. But why not see an instructor/ go to clinics.. Then practice what u learn at home! Bobs clinics are going on right now in the Dome on Thursdays... Go to clinics, get an instructor, practice what u learn at home, get on the field and play ball! its 12u! Bench players as good as starters but fighting to earn their spot. A great player should get every "game" rep they can. Not wonder when the coaches are gonna say ok u beat her out.. Plus when this great kid plays SS and the Assistant coaches kid is the SS.. This great bench player isn't ever gonna beat her out. She might get a game there when its an easy game but she have nothing more than a wasted year under her belt. Learn another position, good. Hit where we tell you, great. Sit this tourney.. Ok coach whatever you need... Dump ice water on this kids spirit and fire for this fantastic game we are all lucky as hell to be part of!!
 
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I said the comment in the last post that ur assistant coach posted about not wanting my kid to be the best. You liked it. Now in this post it's bs????
 
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So billy, how many kids do u think a team should carry? If I'm not mistaken you had 12 right? You were even posting looking for players when you had 12... So now that you lost a few you're complaining about sitting time? A team should carry 11-12 injuries vacation school ball etc... So what is your real complaint? Is it that no one is knocking down your door to play??
 
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Again, unless you only carry 9 players, there will always be someone sitting. The culture on the truly competitive teams is a little different than on the rest. A bench player on a good team would rather sit a little bit and play with good players than to sit out even one inning to a much lesser player so that lesser player can "learn". Those kids on tough teams do take private instruction, they do work at home. That is how they made that team. And they will not be happy playing with players who are not as good.
 
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This is already out of hand... Simple enough. I thank you for your opinions on why great players / parents choose to sit and win other than play and help another team win and get to play all the time and get valuable playing time and game reps as a 12u player. I would hope these aren't the only reasons because - to me- giving up your childhood as a travel ball player shouldn't be remembered as a bench player when it could be a memory packed full of game winning hits and plays for another team! :) .. Do what the ump says at the beginning of every game! PLAY BALL!
 
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If they are a great player... They believe eventually they will break through the line up. Since YOU think player is great I'm sure she will get her chance. They want to be great with other great players on a great team with great coaches and great parents going to great tournaments having great food.

Great topic and a great answer by me...:cool:
 
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Part of being a great coach on a great team with great players is the art of utilizing 12 girls talents throughout the weekend and not giving some kids splinters! And also giving honest feedback with realistic upfront expectations.
 
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I would not want a young lady on my team that is just happy with sitting the bench, I want young ladies that push themselves and their teammates. If she just wants to sit the bench there is a confidence issue that needs to be addressed.
 
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Almost every team has role players, those players that will do what it takes for the success of the team and also putting themselves in the place mentally and physically ready to do their role as called upon whenever called upon. Good coaches will not hesitate to switch out a player who is lolly gagging and role players know they need to be paying attention to the game while not in between the lines. They need to be ready to go in on a moments notice and know exactly what that situation that is playing out on the field at that time so the orchestra doesn't miss a beat. Ones with heart, positive attitude, hustle, desire, a head for the game and realizes it's about team effort, not individual effort will get their time to shine. The good ones excel when that time comes and they are no longer considered a role player. Learn multi positions, have a great attitude, work at your game at home and it all works out in the end.
 
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As I take my coaches hat off and put my players hat on, I look back to see how the game of softball has changed over the past 20 years. Certain parts have certainly stayed the same; each family much choose what they feel is best for their child. It's much like a puzzle. Growing up, after years of little league, I played six years of competitive travel ball right when it started getting big. There was only one thing that mattered: game reps. Getting on the field to play led to the next step and then the next step. Before I knew it, I had colleges calling offering me scholarships. If I never saw dirt time, I would've never had the opportunity to play Division IA softball or coach at the collegiate level. I made a conscious choice not to play for the Mad Dogs which was a popular team at the time. I did that because I didn't think I would play; it paid off. This is merely a 25 year veterans old lady softballers experience. Every family has to decide, given their circumstances, what is best for their child and where they want to go with it. Best of luck to everyone in the 2014 season!
 
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I think your dd has to play each weekend in order to improve. If she is sitting on the bench and not getting a chance in pool play then she is on the wrong team. There is only so much practice that she will benefit from that is not being battle tested. If she is cast as a roll player then that is just what she'll be. Maybe that is okay when she is playing for Michigan as a 20 year old but she'll never get the chance if you allow her to sit weekends keeping book.

Tamster is absolutely right; I don't care how high class the team might be, no magic will rub off if she never gets a chance to learn her craft between the white lines.
 
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I just can't see all these parents can justify that giving up valuable game reps and experience is for the better of a freaking 12u TEAM! Lol... 14u, maybe, 16u hell yes! 12u god no!... This just baffles me. I see that some of these parents of "top heavy" teams are commenting with good stuff.. I wanna hear from a mom or dad whose kid is OK sitting for the "greater good" of one of these top heavy 12u teams! Remember we are talking 12u here. You know 40 ft rubber, plastic cleats! ....
 
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As a coach, both HC and assistant, and a pitchers dad, I can relate to all sides of this discussion. I have had to deal with this stuff many times. There is no simple answer and every team and player/family situation is different.

What I believe is that it is very important that every player, and coach for that matter, has a real and solid role to play on Sunday, while also getting oportunities in practice, scrimmages, and pool play to compete for playing time. Bench is not a role. If a player does not fill a role while also competing for an expanded role, then they are probably on the wrong team, especially at 12u. Need to play to get better, whether thats in every game or not depends on the team, the player, etc.

Every player from the 1st to the 12th should not have anything given to them and should push each other for playing time and to make each other better.

We have been apart of teams where my DD was the best player on the field, some where she did not get the oportunity to compete much at all and sat whole games on the bench, some where her role changed due to the other players skills and for example did not pitch much due to needing her to play in the field, 10u rec teams where everyone looked to her to win and lead-too much pressure, 14u rec team as an 11yrld pitcher where her team treated her as a little sister and picked her up, etc. In every situation the role can change, finding the best role for your DD is the trick.
All this has taken us full circle to find a team this year where she is not the best player, has had to compete and earn her roles, she has taken off as a player and teammate, because of coaches, parents, and players that push each other with a positive atittude. So, we believe we've found that fit, not everyone will, sorry to say.

My advice is to first be honest in your assment of your DD as a player and put the right expectations on her. Find coaches that will allow her to compete and offer the proper direction and coaching to get to the next level of her personal development. If that means starting on a travel team full of future colledge players, sitting out innings as a role player, starting on a less talented travel team, or maybe just on her local rec team working for HS playing time, be honest with yourself and your child.

This is a great discussion, and probably one where everyone involved will have vastly differing opinions. I do agree however, that sitting too much will do more harm than good and you should find the proper balance for your DD.

-my 2 cents
 
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I totally agree that any player needs to get a lot of chances to use their skill in games. I guess where I have an issue is defining exactly what is "riding the bench" and whether there are very many girls who are truly riding the bench.

I coached or help coach a lot of bad teams and a lot of good travel teams over the years, and a couple of those good teams were for "big name" organizations. As I look back at the stats of those teams, I see that the "bench riders" generally speaking got about 60-75% of the plate appearances of the top players, and that every single girl actually played in over 90% of the games that they attended. Is 60-75% plate appearances and 90% of the games defined as "riding the bench"? Were my teams the exception? I don't know ... maybe we worked a little harder to get everyone in ... I do know we were always trying to win.

Now were some of those girls or their families unhappy with their playing time? Yes, some absolutely were. Some of them worked hard and proved themselves and earned more playing time, and some left the team for another team where they were at least promised to play more. I think most good coaches of good organizations take on players who they believe have the potential to play significantly and most of them follow through with it. The biggest issue is that sometimes those girls (and more often their parents) believe they are better than some of the players who are getting more playing time. The point is ... I am not convinced that there are more than a few girls who are riding the bench all weekend on top teams, and that it's the parents of those girls who are getting that 60-75% share who are complaining about it. Again, most usually find their own level. And given that I have coached more than a few bad teams, I have also been the benefactor of some of those girls "coming down" to play with us.
 

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