You choose - Select Softball or High School Softba

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After reading the thread concerning Select Softball vs HS Softball, I was curious on how you felt. This is not the ideal POLL but it might generate some discussion.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Johnnies. I didn't do the poll yet but will. I wanted to reply 1st.

Having 2 daughters 1's a Junior and another is a 7th grader, I find this poll or qustion interesting. I think High School ball has a very solid niche in the career of a softball player. It teaches players how to deal with many different levels of play not only from their own high school team but also from the other teams they are competing against. Adjustments can sometimes be huge. Basically, schools have to deal with the hand they are dealth with (Players turning out to play).

Select travel is totally different as we know. All players are selected on their displayed abilities. Yes it can be fun since everything is pushed to the limit. As far as school ball, fun is earned by community teammates pushing themselves to get local community support. Players also learn how to communicate themselves through newspapers, radio stations etc. School ball really is a huge part of becoming a solid young adult. Wow. I do not know how I will vote on this.

Jeff Klopfer
Classics 12U (Purple)
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Okay Johnnies.... I had to look over the select vs. high school thread to see what the discussion was all about. I voted for high school ball. You and I both know that high school ball can be a big pain in the rear-end with all the politics that goes on. However, I still thinks its an important part of a young ladies high school experience. It teaches them some important life lessons. When their high school days are over they can look back on those years with a sense of pride and accomplishment.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving !! :cool:
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Great post Johnnies. I will not hide my vote. I voted for both. Also as a parent and coach. Reason. I truly love this sport and put everything into it not only with my kids but every player on my teams. It teaches everyone they can succeed. Players, parents and coaches if they put their efforts into it. I have learned to love both High School ball and travel ball. They have their differences but helping my daughters and their team mates through this has become a passion as I know you also have too. It builds self esteem and quality. The schools will come around soon. We should all trudge forward to make progress.

Jeff Klopfer
Classics 12U (Purple)
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I would like everyone to vote and, if you wish, state their opinion also. ALL opinions are valuable. ?I honestly think the results of this poll and the corresponding posts should be sent to OSHAA to serve as a wake up call, but then again, it is difficult to make people listen to reason when they DON'T HAVE TO. ?Let get several hundred response to this and invite Dwayne Warns to visit OFC and discuss the results.

Yeah, when pigs fly.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

How can you see the current results without voting?
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I voted for High School no matter what...I coach a select team but see the contributions HS ball can make to character growth and , in our situation, to skills as well.

I really do not buy the "excessive politics in HS" argument because there is no doubt it is everywhere in Travel Ball as well.

The way the system is now has worked for years or we wouldn't have the opportunity to be having this discussion. I know that as a coach I learn from the present set-up as well...even if lessons learned are usually how NOT to do things.

A great topic to kick around....Thanks

Mark Coburn
Cincy Magic 16U
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I coached middle school and jv in N.C. and moved here and as my dd has gotten older am now involved with her select team. It is an interesting question, but they are very different in alot of aspects which make them hard to compare. School ball involves friends and community and school, while select involves a higher level of dedication from players 1-12. Alot of school teams have 3-5 softball first players with some athletes that are primarily involved in other sports, where as select teams are primarily softball first. I believe the girls grow equally from both, but in different aspects. I would hate to choose...but i did. My vote went for select w/ much respect for h.s. coaches and what they have to endure. Good luck to everyone in every venue, by the way Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

dont like h.s. softball, dont like h.s. sports politics, dd is in 6th year of travel ball, but i still voted for h.s. softball, cant explain my decision except for h.s. sports is important to teach responsibility, build character, make memories that will last a lifetime.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Select ball creates alot of memories, playing for state and national titles. Playing with and against some of the best players in the country. I have seen and met hundreds of college coaches at select tournaments. I have heard the college coaches laugh at high school ball and ask when high school softball will become a solid sport like boys high school football and basketball. I still see on basketball recruiting most of the players gaining a rep against other travel players in summer tourneys, partly because that is where the college coaches are, and it is when the players are playing against other elite players. Elite 12U and 14U teams would destroy most high school teams.

I would be more impressed with high school ball if they allowed girls to work out with their travel teams in the spring. Let the state athletic commision look to the girls best interest and let them keep their skills up. It does not make alot of sense to play summer, fall and winter ball and then regress for four months with a coach that wants an extra check and may have never seen a softball game before.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I voted based on what I have seen in quality of coaching and also what my DD has experienced. Select Softball, though political, is less so than H.S. ball. School ball for the most part is low on the food chain for the AD so it gets little attention. Since you can't transfer too easily in School ball, you don't have the option of finding a good fit for your DD. My DD may not even play school ball this year due to the coaching. It makes me disappointed, but I will support her decision and know she will have great coaching once travel ball starts up this summer.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Taxi,

You are way off base. As a high school and travel coach I take offense at your degrading remarks about high school coaches.

I can tell you as the number of travel teams has increased I see just as many good and just as many bad coaches in both arenas. With far more good than bad. Also, I would venture to say it is more difficult to coach high school ball than travel for many reasons. First, you can't hand pick your team, second and even tougher is you have to work with the same community year in and year out. That means the same parents as their kids come and go so you are scrutinized continually. If you have a bad experience with a player or parent in the summer when the season is over it comes to an end.

I will also tell you that we work far harder on teaching the game in high school and on fundamentals than I would ever dream of in summer ball because we have to. I have coached for fifteen years both here and in California and I have never heard a college coach laugh at high school ball. They understand where it fits in and it is just as important for a young lady's developement as travel ball.

As far as just wanting a check, it would be more profitable to work at a convenience store. I am not a teacher but I can tell you that those people are in it because they care about our kids, not for the money far more often than not. How many rich teachers do you know?

Finally, I don't know you from Adam but my guess is, based on your ignorant remarks, that I can march one high school coach after another past you that knows the game better than you.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I'm really interested in the breakdown for each group. What to the players want? The parents? The coaches? Separate polls for each?
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I have coached both travel ball in the community and on a select team. I think that the time that they have with their friends playing high school ball is important. They can receive good information and instruction at this level, if they have good coaches. It can be difficult though with practicing or playing 6 times a week, if they a lot of homework. There can be political and coaching issues in high school. But they can be present in travel ball too. All of these are good learning experiences for the ladies. It teaches them to learn to deal with adversity in their lives. I wouldn't do away with high school ball, because I think it can be more of a good thing than a bad thing. Just IMHO.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

There is a lot made of how much better the coaching is in travel ball than it is at hs. ? In some instances that is true. ? However the players that are on the travel teams getting this superior coaching are also playing on the hs teams. ? ? They should be the ones to lead their hs team. ? ?The truth is that there are just as many bad coaches in travel ball, ?you have all seen them. ? The truely elite teams have good coaches, ?I think. ? Most players are going to paid trainers for pitching, ?hitting, ?and fielding which is sure helpful to both the travel and the hs coach. ? Some coaches even charge their own teams players for lessons in hitting or baserunning or some other skill that should come under the coaching job description. ? The bottom line is that the difference between hs and travel ball is more about the player than the coach. ?If we truely wanted to make the fastpitch experience pure then a large number of travel teams should be eliminated along with the hs programs that are bad, ? but that would shrink the pool of players and thereby shrinking the cash cow to milked by travel ball trainers and coaches. ? With all the players that go through travel ball programs and hs programs and college programs you would think you could find coaches for every team that could teach the game at something less that 30.00 per hour.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I would like to see HS ball and Spring Travel ball co-exist like in most other states. There is no reason that the girls can't play for their high schools during the week and their travel teams on the weekends. There wouldn't have to be a forced choice if it wasn't for the Ohio Athletic Assn. rules. We moved here from out of state where both HS and travel coaches encouraged athletes to participate in both. Travel teams simply had to forego weekday practices during school ball season.

As others have stated, HS and travel ball each have their benefits. Admittedly, some high school programs are sorely lacking, but others are top-notch with coaches who are skilled and competitive. The sense of "community" that exists with HS ball where the girls have an opportunity to represent their school, play with their friends, and have classmates and teachers cheer them on cannot be replicated with travel ball. The community exposure, newspaper coverage, accolades,and self-esteem boosts that occur with HS ball are not present with travel ball. The girls are excited to wear their uniforms to school in anticipation of a game where they will represent their school. I would hate for HS ball to go by the wayside. My vote was for HS ball, but if given the choice I would have voted to have both HS and Travel co-exist in the Spring.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

helicopter said:
I would like to see HS ball and Spring Travel ball co-exist like in most other states. There is no reason that the girls can't play for their high schools during the week and their travel teams on the weekends....
Except that many HS teams also play on the weekends....
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

In order to make it work there would have to be a spirit of cooperation. . . each side gives and takes to benefit the kids. Travel teams would probably have to give up weekday practices during the school season and HS teams would probably have to give up weekend games or at least work at scheduling as few as possible so that travel teams could work around them. Ohio could certainly learn from other states who seem to somehow allow HS and travel ball to coexist.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

i have never understood why Ohio High School Assoc. does this to athletes. they number the amount of players from one school on a select team, they say when coach's can and can't talk to players.. Go over the border to Indiana and the whole high school team can play year long together.. why should ohio athletes be penalized for trying to be the best they can be? I don't think its a question of which is better.. high school or travel but maybe we should be asking the questions that really matter.
i like the ideal of both working together for the good of the girls.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Some folks are just not aware of the vast quality differences between programs - especially at the Div. I schools. The reality is that most high school varsity programs play at about the level of an average 14u travel team. The strongest teams are the ones lucky enough to have a majority of experienced travel ball players on the roster. One strong pitcher and five good hitters makes for a pretty good team. The state champs usually have better numbers than that. It's the luck of the draw, and something that you just have to accept, along with the politics, realizing that most of the recognition awards are nothing more than a popularity contest.

There is a lot about the "other side" of high school ball that took awhile to sink in for me. I think it's very important for girls - regardless of athletic ability - to have the experience of participating with their friends. Yes - there are LOTS of teams that are nothing more than a social club, but what's wrong with that? It's a once in a lifetime experience for ALL the girls - let them enjoy it. It's a great character building experience for the travel ball girls. My advice to travel girls and their parents is instead of fighting the system, accept it for what it is. Let your daughter learn and grow from the experience. If her high school team is severely lacking in talent, she can become a leader who sets an example. She has June to look forward to, but for most, the high school experience is all they see.

As for the "politics", parents need to read the above paragraph again. Don't get caught up in the stuff that is really beyond your control. Yes - you think the coach is clueless, the starters are all in the wrong positions, screwed up batting order, etc. - but let it go. All the bitching in the world will only make the experience worse for the team - and more than likely embarass your daughter - and make you look like an a**. LET IT GO!
 

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