You choose - Select Softball or High School Softba

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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I really think the question might be dependent on the HS and TB team the player is on.
High School softball for my dd was important. The teamwork aspect and pride for playing for your school cannot be diminished. Having a good HS coach, players learn a daily discipline of preparation and practice that will help them at the college level if they pursue that. Each game's outcome can determine their standing in the state tournaments. You knew you would play complete games w/o time limits. If you are lucky to have good coaches in both Tball and HS ball it is very rewarding. since they practiced every day, the team worked extremely well together in almost every kind of situation that came up. HS coach communicated w/ the player's hitting or pitching coaches. No matter what, the local newspaper covers HS ball and not very many tball teams. Looking every week in the paper for the stories on the teams, stats, and honors was something she looked forward to. One may supplement what the other lacks.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I'd like to preface this post by saying that it is basically a response to everything I've been reading on these forums for 5 years about high school softball. Not necessarily a response to a specific post on this thread. That said:

765 schools have high school softball teams according to the divisional breakdowns. ?I would imagine that some schools have only 1 team, but that several also have 3. ?So let's say that there are 1,530 high school softball teams in the state. ?And let's assume that each team has 12 players. ?That makes 18,360 high school players in the state.

I don't think that the changes you want to see are reflective of what the majority of those 18,360 players want. ?It's reflective of an extreme minority who are interested in obtaining D1 scholarships. ?I think the OHSAA off-season restrictions on coaching and playing together are baloney. ?But why should they change something like this that only makes it better for a small minority? ?To have girls playing high school and select at the same time would be a disaster, the high school would not be able to schedule anything Friday or Saturday. ?Most girls play both rec ball and travel ball when they start playing on travel teams and many play for multiple years when they are younger? ?Why is that? ?I don't think you will find too many players other than the ones wanting scholarships that would give up high school softball.

Bottom line, if the girls really didn't want to play high school softball, they wouldn't. ?They could spend that time training and taking private lessons for the 'real' season - summer. ?That way they aren't exposed to all the terrible high school coaching that many of you believe is so prevalent - they can be working with their travel coaches. ?

Let's pretend that a viable alternative is created and girls who want to play select instead of high school can. ?Not every girl will make the choice of playing select. ?Are the travel coaches, with half their girls choosing to play high school and half choosing select, going to be okay with their players playing for someone else in the spring? ?I don't think so!

Finally, if you are complaining about the condition of your high school program, what did you do about it? ?As with any sport, if you wait until 9th grade to improve skills you are too late. ?Did you encourage and help other local players discover travel ball? ?Have you asked your travel team to run clinics for the rec league coaches and players in your area to help them further their skills? ?Have you done anything other than send your kid halfway across the state to play on their 5th team in 5 years so they can win more trophies? ?Was your focus on your community or yourself? ?Wait, you probably complain to the AD about the coach and to the other parents about how their kids are making yours look bad. ?At least that's something, right?
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

There are 765 total high school teams in the divisional breakdown. ?
If each team had an average of 13 girls, that would be 9,945 total players. ?

If, lets say, 25% of those play travel ball, that would leave:

7459 girls that do not play select ball and would not play select ball either in the spring or summer.
2486 girls that do play travel ball.


There ARE select players that do not play for their HS team and use the spring to practice and work on their skills -individually and with an instructor(s). I also beleive that there are some -obviously not all - that would choose to play select if there were an alternative to HS softball. ?I guess the question is - should there be an alternative offered? ?Maybe a select league as an alternative? ?

Most of the people/players etc that read and post on OFC are in some way associated with select softball so the poll is gear toward that population - not the March-June players. I find it interesting that the poll is that close.

Just throwing it out for debate.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

The spirit and memeories of High School athletics are unique. The memories made with friends from across the stae may be different and filled with greater competition and more tophies but it cannot replace tha High School experience.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Johnnies - I was counting a JV team for each school.

I agree about the poll being so close. That is part of what I am saying - the girls DO want to play high school ball for the most part, although I see nothing wrong with an alternative. The problem is, just like playing rec and travel, girls will want to play both, which is not fair to the overwhelming majority of high school players that only play high school - they lose 1-2 days a week of time. To ask for give and take between the 2 so a small minority can benefit is unfair to expect. Sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it too.

The only way this question is ever going to be answered is for somebody to step up and create a viable alternative league for select players. Winter leagues are all over the state - if there are not enough outdoor complexes available, use the indoor ones. It wouldn't take much other than to come up with places to play and a fee structure and then have signups. This is a free market - if the demand creates a need for a spring select league, it will exist. My point is that it is NOT the high schools or the OHSAA stopping players from playing select ball in the spring. They are free to do whatever they want if they are not playing high school ball.

What I would also be interested in knowing is how many select players choose not to play high school softball. That would make a good poll. I agree that they exist, but do they exist in a number that is statistically relevant or in a number great enough to start a spring league?
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

dtrj said:
Johnnies - I was counting a JV team for each school.

I agree about the poll being so close. ?That is part of what I am saying - the girls DO want to play high school ball for the most part, although I see nothing wrong with an alternative. ?The problem is, just like playing rec and travel, girls will want to play both, which is not fair to the overwhelming majority of high school players that only play high school - they lose 1-2 days a week of time. ?To ask for give and take between the 2 so a small minority can benefit is unfair to expect. ?Sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it too.

The only way this question is ever going to be answered is for somebody to step up and create a viable alternative league for select players. ?Winter leagues are all over the state - if there are not enough outdoor complexes available, use the indoor ones. ?It wouldn't take much other than to come up with places to play and a fee structure and then have signups. ?This is a free market - if the demand creates a need for a spring select league, it will exist. ?My point is that it is NOT the high schools or the OHSAA stopping players from playing select ball in the spring. ?They are free to do whatever they want if they are not playing high school ball.

What I would also be interested in knowing is how many select players choose not to play high school softball. ?That would make a good poll. ?I agree that they exist, but do they exist in a number that is statistically relevant or in a number great enough to start a spring league?

To answer a few points.

OHSAA does not allow a player to play select and HS at the same time. They mandate when a girl has to cease select ball in order to play HS so "losing a player 1-2 days a week cannot happen".

Good idea for a poll about the number of girls that choose not play HS ball. Is it statistically relevant at this time - probably not. I would venture to say that if a viable and reasonably priced alternative was offered to HS ball (select leagues, tournaments, etc) the number would be statistically relevant.

The wild card in this is the ever rising cost of Pay to Play. I think everyone agrees that it WILL get worse. How many parents are going to shell out $500-1000 for their daughter to play HS softball. For the serious softball player, if it comes down to economics and they have to choose one or the other - high school softball will be the loser. Of that, I have no doubt. In this event, when it comes to past, there will be alternatives coming into existance. A very likely one - 14-18U tournament will become more common in March - June. Count on it.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I need to get better at saying what I mean!!

I know OHSAA rules forbid playing both, but they do not forbid playing select only. That's what I meant about the OHSAA not really being the ones stopping this.

If my daughter wanted to play softball in college and it was costing me $500 or more for high school softball, she would be playing select in the spring or that money would go to private instruction. The only other variable that could change that would be quality of the high school team and coaches.

Excellent point about pay-to-play ultimately driving what will happen. When it starts moving toward higher age groups being included in spring tournaments, I hope it will be more of a 'friendlies' format than tournament competition. I hope girls would be skipping high school ball to participate in higher quality play, not so travel teams can accumulate more trophies in the spring against overmatched teams.

Do you think that spring tournaments would also lead to more teams becoming truly state-wide teams? As I posted earlier, I don't see too many summer coaches being comfortable with their players playing for someone else in the spring. If spring tournaments become a reality, I would hope that teams would announce their intention to play spring ball during tryouts so only players interested in skipping high school would tryout. It would be grossly unfair to a girl to pressure her later to skip high school if those intentions were not made clear at tryouts.

The possibilities are endless and intriguing. This idea has merit, especially for players from weaker high school programs, but I still feel the answer does not lie with the OHSAA changing their rules about outside participation during the season. A lot of what I was venting about earlier is that I get tired of people bashing high school softball because it isn't travel ball - it's not meant to be.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

dtjr,

LOL, It is not you. ?I need to get better at reading comprehension. It might be time for new glasses.

I have been a HS coach for 9 years and a travel coach for 6. ?It is my observation that there have been immense changes in that time frame. ?Pay to Play has went from $25 to well over $500 in that span. ?If that trend continues, in a very short time it could cost much more. ?What is the threshold? ?$750? $1,000. ?Yes, HS softball is everything that the posters have mentioned concerning memories and relationships, but sooner or later, it will be price above what MANY will be able to afford, especially those players that play select and HS softball. It will come to a decision for many families. ?I know many families now that are struggling to do both and it is within a straw of breaking the camels back.

It has been my experience in my lifetime (don't ask how long ?:-/) that tough choices will have to be made. ?The choice for the Mar-June players, when faced with a costly Pay to Play, ?will be easy - don't play softball. ?The choice for those who are serious about softball will be the ones who will have to struggle with this decision. ?I honestly believe that in 5-10 years, that HS softball will be an endangered species. ?It is a non-revenue sport that traditionally does not have the draw of HS football or basketball. Revenues will eventually decide what sport survive at the HS level. ?Talk with any AD and they will tell you that without HS football, the non-revenue sports would be doomed. ?HS football (and to a smaller extent - HS basketball) float the non-revenue sports. ?Even though softball does not draw the crowd that HS football does, did you know that OHSAA does not allow admissions to be charged at softball events outside of the regional and state tournaments?

In this country, when there is an apparent need, a solution usually surfaces. ?I believe that we will start to see such solutions to spring select softball in the near future. ?That is just my opinion, but my opinion is forged by my personal experience.

This thread has generated some great dialogue, hasn't it?
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I have not read all of the posts on this thread. I have believed that if a sport is not supported at the H.S. level it would not be supported at the college level. Please list the sports that have a great interest at the college level that have no interest at the H.S. level.

I will add that I wish that school softball would be better or more of a positive experience for all the young ladies in Ohio than we have read about, but we can only try to control our own community. I know this does not help the people that feel powerless,but may open some more discussion.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

Johnnies,

What is the pay to play fee currently? We moved this summer and did not have to pay to play in the state we are coming from; although it had been mentioned. Just trying to be more informed. With your experience where do you expect it to be in the near future? Thanks in advance.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

sdlove- Pay to Play (or the politically correct Pay to Participate) Started in the Mid '90s when funding for school athletics were taking a hit form the Board of Educations across the State due to cuts in State & Federal funding. A few School systems started this as a way to "supplement" the Athletic Budgets and most were in the $25-$50 range per sport. As more funding was cut and things got more expensive, more and more Schools adopted this P.T.P.

Now (and I'm only guessing) about 80-90% of Public Schools charge this P.T.P. fee in the range of $25 (very low end) to our School system $400 per sport. I know there are some others out there that are more expensive, but not sure of the amount. It has cause a lot of student/athletes to make a choice between sports at an early age (Junior/Middle High) because Parents cn't afford a 2 or 3 sport athlete anymore. I'm guessing that if the State doesn't figure out how to fund the schools legally (Our system of funding Schools was declared Un-Constitutional some 10-15 years ago by the State Supreme Court.........And it still isn't fixed :-/) you will see more and more talk of taking the no-revenue sports (everything but Football & Basketball) as Club/Select/call it what you want.

What state are you from, maybe on another thread you can enlighten us on how your former state funded Schools and Athletics..........Our State Government hasn't gotten it right yet :'(...
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

about two years ago a local school pay to play was $700 or close to it but it was used as a bargin chip when the school had a levy going up that year. guess what it passed and the people were returned most of their money. i think the average in sw ohio is around $50 a sport.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I guess we are lucky that we do not have "pay to play" at our school. Daughter plays 3 sports, so hopefully that doesn't happen or I'm sure some tough decisions might have to be made.

As far as HS or Select, I feel that it is important for them to play for their school and community, but I know that if there was an alternative to HS ball, my daughter would most likely choose Select. Although she likes to play with her school friends, she also gets very frustrated that they don't take HS ball seriously. Many of them play just because there is nothing else to do or mom and dad want them to play. There are only 2 girls on her HS team that play travel ball, including her. Don't get me wrong, she likes to have fun too, but she also takes her softball seriously because she wants to play at the next level. ?As far as the friends go, ?she has made more "good" friends playing travel ball than in HS. Her best friend is actually a girl she played travel ball with for 2 years and lives an hour away. ?


As far as trying to get more girls from the community interested in playing some sort of travel ball, we have tried. Parents think we are crazy for spending our entire summer traveling around to softball tournaments and can't even believe we would pay $200.00+ for a softball bat.... wow, if they only knew how much we actually spend a year on travel! ?;)
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

1 There are a lot of good high school coaches and some solid high school programs in Ohio. I would like to see a spring select league or high school state officials to relax practice restrictions for select players.

2 I have helped a few players in our area join travel teams, most girls were reluctant when high school coach told girls to quit select travel team if they wanted any playing time in high school. I tried to organize some Rec minor travel with local teams playing nearby town teams, most parents were not willing to drive 5 - 10 miles to go to a game.

3 I was a board member of the local little league for several years, coach, league officer (s) all star coach, fund raiser. community involvement I introduced several safety concepts learned from travel teams, tourneys to our local organizations. I helped the girls high school team get better facilities when I pointed out to superintendent the boys had much better fields, dugouts and other amenitites. I will help a coach if they want assistance.

4 I have heard college coaches express frustration about when high school girls and softball in particular will get the respect and attention of boys sports, while attending showcases or sitting in their office. I learned to stop asking if the college coaches wanted the high school schedule when they requested DD schedule. I tried to get DD involved with high school ball for a couple of years. DD remarked the other day she may play high school ball her senior year, but she will still play select ball next summer.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I voted for both High school and select. High School is good for a sense of community and representing your school with your friends and classmates while Select is for a next level of competition to further enhance the players skills and get them ready for college.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I picked summerball because on my highschool team I have to take a lot of crap from the upperclassmen!My summer team is the best team I have ever been on and the players are great plus the coaches..There is no bickering about someone taking your spot or putting people down,unlike my highschool team last year...hope it is different this year..!
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

I am not sure what the OFCs record is for votes in a poll, but with 476 votes so far, it has to be either near the top or a record. Keep the votes coming.
 
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Re: You choose - Select Softball or High School So

4 votes shy of 500.
 

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