How's that working for you???

[CoachTEA]

Dr. Phil (and others) have it right: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. I am going to leave the names out "to protect the guilty" and I don't wont this to be construed as a bash on all high school programs, but come on people how about being/acting like adults while coaching or managing a program. How about looking out for your players as people first and foremost over your ego and won/loss record??? Is this asking too much?

Once again I am witnessing talented players stepping away from their high school team because the coach is all about himself (and his "joke" of a record) rather the players. This time it is an outfielder that I have coached for 2+ season being forced to pitch for her high school. Hey, I get it - my youngest daughter had to pitch for her high school despite not being a "pitcher". In this situation/story, the kid and her family are absolutely wonderful (no drama whatsoever) and if she isn't the best player, she is one of the Top 3. Usually bats in the three hole and plays outfield or middle infield when she isn't pitching. The other day she struggled in the circle - 50+ pitches in the first inning - because the defense committed 6 errors (!!!) in the first inning. She respectfully approached her coach and asked to be relieved and offered to play elsewhere in the field to help the team. The coach refused to even consider her request and chided her for "her attitude". Now she is considering quitting the team and quite frankly: I DON'T BLAME HER. She is already committed for college and she doesn't want her high school to over use her arm.

Last year I had a very talented shortstop (small D1 talent-wise) pitched for her high school team and actually got an all-state recognition, but her arm was shot for most of the summer. Another kid on my team tore her labrum playing for her high school coach and missed half of her freshman year at college due to the injury. The bad thing, once again, her had no prayer of going anywhere in the state tournament - why ride a kid so hard??? Likewise with 2 other players on our rosters - in risk of over-use for meaningless high school games.

In southwest Ohio there several high school programs that are fizzling out because of the apathy (or ignorance) of the high school coaches (I am sure Hitter23 will be on here to stir the pot with the Sam Kinnison meme encouraging me to "name names" ). The point is this: I am competitive guy and I like to win. Likewise I ask/demand my players treat their coaches (travel and high school) with respect. Respect is a 2 way street though and as adults we are called to protect and nurture our players above all else. Come on, let's be the best versions of ourselves.

 

[HITTER23]

Ask and you shall receive...........

DO WE LIKE SELF CENTERED COACHES ?????? NOOOOOOOOO, NAME THEM , NAME THEM !!! UH, OOOOOOOOHHH

 

[SbSpirit]

Once again I am witnessing talented players stepping away from their high school team because the coach is all about himself (and his "joke" of a record) rather the players. This time it is an outfielder that I have coached for 2+ season being forced to pitch for her high school. Hey, I get it - my youngest daughter had to pitch for her high school despite not being a "pitcher". In this situation/story, the kid and her family are absolutely wonderful (no drama whatsoever) and if she isn't the best player, she is one of the Top 3. Usually bats in the three hole and plays outfield or middle infield when she isn't pitching. The other day she struggled in the circle - 50+ pitches in the first inning - because the defense committed 6 errors (!!!) in the first inning. She respectfully approached her coach and asked to be relieved and offered to play elsewhere in the field to help the team. The coach refused to even consider her request and chided her for "her attitude". Now she is considering quitting the team and quite frankly: I DON'T BLAME HER. She is already committed for college and she doesn't want her high school to over use her arm.

Ok i will bite. How many times do we read on the Forum it's a team sport, what about team first... Well atleast thats what some on the forum comment about. Vs. Player preferences.
Where is @DanMaz

Conclusion, either way can always blame the coach.
Go figure?!?!

 

[Captain_Thunder]

Ok i will bite. How many times do we read on the Forum it's a team sport, what about team first. Well atleast thats what some on the forum rant about.
Where is @DanMaz

Conclusion, Can't have it both ways.
But can always blame the coach.
Go figure?!?! Lol Anonymous ranting about an anonymous coach doesn't get much better.

Not sure who you are referring to anonymously ranting??? Majority on here know Tim.
Yet, you have been commenting about similar situations - and no clue who you are. Tells us a little something about you!
We all prefer to know who we are communicating with. Much better than debating with someone hiding behind a screen!

 

[SbSpirit]

Not sure who you are referring to anonymously ranting??? Majority on here know Tim.
Yet, you have been commenting about similar situations - and no clue who you are. Tells us a little something about you!
We all prefer to know who we are communicating with. Much better than debating with someone hiding behind a screen!

Yeah I deleted the anonymous part the humor might not come across as good as @HITTER23 BTW it is an anonymous rant about anonymous people if you don't know who they are. Just find it funny.

 

[daboss]

Dr. Phil (and others) have it right: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. I am going to leave the names out "to protect the guilty" and I don't wont this to be construed as a bash on all high school programs, but come on people how about being/acting like adults while coaching or managing a program. How about looking out for your players as people first and foremost over your ego and won/loss record??? Is this asking too much?

Once again I am witnessing talented players stepping away from their high school team because the coach is all about himself (and his "joke" of a record) rather the players. This time it is an outfielder that I have coached for 2+ season being forced to pitch for her high school. Hey, I get it - my youngest daughter had to pitch for her high school despite not being a "pitcher". In this situation/story, the kid and her family are absolutely wonderful (no drama whatsoever) and if she isn't the best player, she is one of the Top 3. Usually bats in the three hole and plays outfield or middle infield when she isn't pitching. The other day she struggled in the circle - 50+ pitches in the first inning - because the defense committed 6 errors (!!!) in the first inning. She respectfully approached her coach and asked to be relieved and offered to play elsewhere in the field to help the team. The coach refused to even consider her request and chided her for "her attitude". Now she is considering quitting the team and quite frankly: I DON'T BLAME HER. She is already committed for college and she doesn't want her high school to over use her arm.

Last year I had a very talented shortstop (small D1 talent-wise) pitched for her high school team and actually got an all-state recognition, but her arm was shot for most of the summer. Another kid on my team tore her labrum playing for her high school coach and missed half of her freshman year at college due to the injury. The bad thing, once again, her had no prayer of going anywhere in the state tournament - why ride a kid so hard??? Likewise with 2 other players on our rosters - in risk of over-use for meaningless high school games.

In southwest Ohio there several high school programs that are fizzling out because of the apathy (or ignorance) of the high school coaches (I am sure Hitter23 will be on here to stir the pot with the Sam Kinnison meme encouraging me to "name names" ). The point is this: I am competitive guy and I like to win. Likewise I ask/demand my players treat their coaches (travel and high school) with respect. Respect is a 2 way street though and as adults we are called to protect and nurture our players above all else. Come on, let's be the best versions of ourselves.

I'm just throwing this out there because I can. It won't change anything but I am curious if you agree CoachTEA. Do you think the coach in question is picking these kids to pitch simply because they have extensive softball backgrounds? Is he assuming they can do most anything asked of them? Just to do this shows how little he knows but I am curious. If this is true, it's obvious they know very little about coaching and less about the game. Do you believe he is targeting you somehow because of your involvement in the sport away from the school program? Perhaps using your players out of place due to his distaste of you? If yes, that's a sick person.

To be honest, I have witnessed something similar from a private Christian school but to be honest the coach basically asked if anyone on the roster would like to try their hand at it please step up so they rest of them could play. They had no pitcher, they barely had a roster at all. The atmosphere was very relaxed and the girls always seemed to be enjoying the experience. After all, it's all they had. He never pressured the girls because he was accepting of the reality of things. His own daughter was mid-level travel ball player and took her turn in the circle. I'm sure the only reason they fielded a team at all was due to his enthusiasm. I can respect that.

But he never willfully put any of the girls in harms way by tempting fate of physical injury. You cannot make the girls play this game.

If he's using these kids like a weapon, That needs to be stopped.

 

[SbSpirit]

Dr. Phil (and others) have it right: doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. I am going to leave the names out "to protect the guilty" and I don't wont this to be construed as a bash on all high school programs, but come on people how about being/acting like adults while coaching or managing a program. How about looking out for your players as people first and foremost over your ego and won/loss record??? Is this asking too much?

Once again I am witnessing talented players stepping away from their high school team because the coach is all about himself (and his "joke" of a record) rather the players. This time it is an outfielder that I have coached for 2+ season being forced to pitch for her high school. Hey, I get it - my youngest daughter had to pitch for her high school despite not being a "pitcher". In this situation/story, the kid and her family are absolutely wonderful (no drama whatsoever) and if she isn't the best player, she is one of the Top 3. Usually bats in the three hole and plays outfield or middle infield when she isn't pitching. The other day she struggled in the circle - 50+ pitches in the first inning - because the defense committed 6 errors (!!!) in the first inning. She respectfully approached her coach and asked to be relieved and offered to play elsewhere in the field to help the team. The coach refused to even consider her request and chided her for "her attitude". Now she is considering quitting the team and quite frankly: I DON'T BLAME HER. She is already committed for college and she doesn't want her high school to over use her arm.

Last year I had a very talented shortstop (small D1 talent-wise) pitched for her high school team and actually got an all-state recognition, but her arm was shot for most of the summer. Another kid on my team tore her labrum playing for her high school coach and missed half of her freshman year at college due to the injury. The bad thing, once again, her had no prayer of going anywhere in the state tournament - why ride a kid so hard??? Likewise with 2 other players on our rosters - in risk of over-use for meaningless high school games.

In southwest Ohio there several high school programs that are fizzling out because of the apathy (or ignorance) of the high school coaches (I am sure Hitter23 will be on here to stir the pot with the Sam Kinnison meme encouraging me to "name names" ). The point is this: I am competitive guy and I like to win. Likewise I ask/demand my players treat their coaches (travel and high school) with respect. Respect is a 2 way street though and as adults we are called to protect and nurture our players above all else. Come on, let's be the best versions of ourselves.

Lot in that read.
Question about this team situation,
>>Without removing the coach, because the coach could be replaced but that doesn't mean that action will be a fix.
>>What is your solution to the 'h.s.' in the spotlight?
>>Do you think one solution fixes situation with the team?

( Probability is there will be another parent in the bleachers with a different perspective complaint?)

 

[DanMaz]

Ok i will bite. How many times do we read on the Forum it's a team sport, what about team first... Well atleast thats what some on the forum comment about. Vs. Player preferences.
Where is @DanMaz

Conclusion, either way can always blame the coach.
Go figure?!?!

ha ha ha! there is always an exception to the rule Sb. High School ball? I better just keep my keyboard silent on this one. smh

sometimes I look back and wish we would have put all the time into golf or tennis instead of softball. At least they have a chance to make a living from golf or tennis. lol

 

[SbSpirit]

ha ha ha!

 

[Stedman00]

If the player doesn't want to pitch every game, the coach should not try to force, imply, etc. her to pitch. She, had a 50+pitch inning due to 6 errors. Asked to be taken out and placed anywhere else to help her team. Maybe if she was playing OF, she catches a couple balls and the innings get shorter?

Bottom-line, to label a player as having a 'negative attitude' because she doesn't want to pitch, is border-line lunacy.

it's on the coach to properly prepare his team, NOT any one players fault that coach didn't get other players any reps at pitching to be serviceable in previous years. OR maybe he tried this same 'sales pitch' and players quit.

 

[CoachTEA]

Ok i will bite. How many times do we read on the Forum it's a team sport, what about team first... Well atleast thats what some on the forum comment about. Vs. Player preferences.
Where is @DanMaz

Conclusion, either way can always blame the coach.
Go figure?!?!

SBSpirit - Always blame the coach? No. I think you are missing my point: the player's health and well being is more important than a damned high school game. I have a young lady who injured her and was rehabbing - this incident by the way occurred 2 years ago. She went into the dugout and saw her name in the lineup despite the fact she had not been cleared to play. Smartly she went to the coach and asked him and he LIED to her and said "oh, I spoke to the trainer and you are cleared". She called the trainer who denied the conversation ever occurred then called her father who called the AD and the coach was rightly fired.

Let me be clear: there are some *great* men and women coaches out there and there are some real turds - I want the turds out of the sport and I will actively campaign against them.

 

[CoachTEA]

Ask and you shall receive........... View attachment 7007

DO WE LIKE SELF CENTERED COACHES ?????? NOOOOOOOOO, NAME THEM , NAME THEM !!! UH, OOOOOOOOHHH

You always deliver! ;-)

 

[CoachTEA]

Not sure who you are referring to anonymously ranting??? Majority on here know Tim.
Yet, you have been commenting about similar situations - and no clue who you are. Tells us a little something about you!
We all prefer to know who we are communicating with. Much better than debating with someone hiding behind a screen!

Thanks Russ! You and I go back to the summer of 2009 I believe right before both of us went into the "travel world". You with Mason Thunder now Ohio Thunder (name change was smart and appropriate); me with Blazers, Freedom Elite, and the last 5+ seasons with Ohio Hawks. Like you, I have coached and hopefully helped send many players to college at all levels - admittedly just a few at the D1. Interestingly I tallied it up and I/we have/had players playing ball at 59 different colleges (more a testament of the players than me!).

My comments were about a particular situation occurring with a coach in the Columbus area, but it is something that I am seeing seasons in and seasons out across many different schools. Yes I am "team first" guy and I am not the "right coach for every player" and I am far from perfect. What frosts me to no end is when I see a coach's ego, ignorance, or apathy impact players. My player in this example is very much a "team player" but we (the player, her parents, and myself) are concerned about the over use of her arm especially when she is not a pitcher by trade. I had a similar situation in Northern Kentucky where one of my players (a non pitcher) was inserted in a game without any warm-ups (except for the 5 pitches when placed in the circle). Once again, no beuno and risking an injury (which occurred to my daughter in a college game btw).

Russ, you are probably witnessing some of this as I am in southwest Ohio. There are several programs that I feel are on the decline and many really good players are stepping away from historically strong programs. Understand there are also situations where it is a PITA parent or real Diva of a player - I have no time for either nor should a high school coach. I am simply stating coaches need to listen to players when they are hurting/injured.

 

[CoachTEA]

I'm just throwing this out there because I can. It won't change anything but I am curious if you agree CoachTEA. Do you think the coach in question is picking these kids to pitch simply because they have extensive softball backgrounds? Is he assuming they can do most anything asked of them? Just to do this shows how little he knows but I am curious. If this is true, it's obvious they know very little about coaching and less about the game. Do you believe he is targeting you somehow because of your involvement in the sport away from the school program? Perhaps using your players out of place due to his distaste of you? If yes, that's a sick person.

To be honest, I have witnessed something similar from a private Christian school but to be honest the coach basically asked if anyone on the roster would like to try their hand at it please step up so they rest of them could play. They had no pitcher, they barely had a roster at all. The atmosphere was very relaxed and the girls always seemed to be enjoying the experience. After all, it's all they had. He never pressured the girls because he was accepting of the reality of things. His own daughter was mid-level travel ball player and took her turn in the circle. I'm sure the only reason they fielded a team at all was due to his enthusiasm. I can respect that.

But he never willfully put any of the girls in harms way by tempting fate of physical injury. You cannot make the girls play this game.

If he's using these kids like a weapon, That needs to be stopped.

DaBoss - my daughters both attended a small Christian school. Fortunately my youngest daughter played for Bob Burlew and Stephanie Grossman (two of the very best in my opinion) and I wish every kid could play for coaches like them - competitive, but also caring and realistic about the team. My daughter's fastball probably never topped 45 mph , but like your story, she raised her hand and jumped in there to pitch. I do not believe many of these high school coaches are targeting me in any way (I guess I could be wrong, but I don't see a conspiracy or anything). I also recognize there is a difference between Ignorance and Malice. My point is my players in question are committed to playing college ball and I don't want to see them lose opportunities due to injuries caused by abuse or over-use. Whereas I ask/demand my players to respect their HS Coaches, I have also encouraged to use their voice when abuse or overuse. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[SbSpirit]

Lot in that read.
Question about this team situation,
>>Without removing the coach, because the coach could be replaced but that doesn't mean that action will be a fix.
>>What is your solution to the 'h.s.' in the spotlight?
>>Do you think one solution fixes situation with the team?

( Probability is there will be another parent in the bleachers with a different perspective complaint?)

@ CoachTea, I didn't miss the point in your post you are complaining. I got that.
Can you take a moment to answer these questions?

Do you get the point in the above previous post?

 

[SbSpirit]

My point is my players in question are committed to playing college ball and I don't want to see them lose opportunities due to injuries caused by abuse or over-use. Whereas I ask/demand my players to respect their HS Coaches, I have also encouraged to use their voice when abuse or overuse. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Understandable to not want injury.
However 50 pitches is not an overload of pitching in a game. In one inning is unfortunately a lot but not yet an overload.
Especially to players that are going to go play in college.
A pitcher working their way through a situation could be good character building.

Will leave this to the forums continued discussions.

 

[CoachTEA]

Understandable to not want injury.
However 50 pitches is not an overload of pitching in a game. In one inning is unfortunately a lot but not yet an overload.
Especially to players that are going to go play in college.
A pitcher working their way through a situation could be good character building.

Will leave this to the forums continued discussions.

50 pitches isn't an overload for a pitcher or over the span of several innings, but she isn't a pitcher and frankly I have ever had a pitcher throw 50 in one inning. In addition to that game she had already pitched that week.

 

[CoachTEA]

@ CoachTea, I didn't miss the point in your post you are complaining. I got that.
Can you take a moment to answer these questions?

Do you get the point in the above previous post?

SbSpirit - Apologize for not directly answering the questions. From a communication with the mother, the situation is resolving (for now). Here is what I see:
* It isn't the player's problem that the coach doesn't feel like he has another viable option in the circle - the coach owns the problem and it is irresponsible of a coach to only have one pitcher. Period. And by the way this guy has 2 other pitchers.
* No player should be forced to pitch every inning of every game and I have advised ALL of players and parents to be open and honest about overuse and shutting it down if the coach doesn't.
* Since when is overuse character building??? Yes, I have a catcher in college that is filling in at shortstop (a position she never played) and THAT is character building --- allowing yourself to be overworked and jeopardizing your COLLEGE for meaningless high schools is the epitome of STUPID. This school's team will be lucky to win 5 games if that puts things in perspective for you.

 

[SbSpirit]

SbSpirit - Apologize for not directly answering the questions. From a communication with the mother, the situation is resolving (for now). Here is what I see:
* It isn't the player's problem that the coach doesn't feel like he has another viable option in the circle -

So what's your solution? Just pitch anybody who wants to pitch or what? Or just throw someone else in there who maybe doesn't want to pitch and doesn't know how but just try?
Heck if no one else wants to pitch someone will be forced to. What are you going to do as a coach? CoachTea You never answered that question.
I don't like to think that any player is being 'forced' to do anything out on the field they dont want, but there are players playing positions they'd rather not because they prefer a different position. That happens.

* character building???

Coming back from a bad inning out on the field to the next inning is character building.

Yes, I have a catcher in college that is filling in at shortstop (a position she never played) and THAT is character building ---

^^^ that is also character building.

The bottom line in your complaint is.
You think 50 pitches is overuse.
You are entitled to your opinion.
But there are many many other pitchers and coaches and parents who would not agree with that. Who are also entitled to their opinions.

 

[CoachTEA]

So what's your solution? Just pitch anybody who wants to pitch or what? Or just throw someone else in there who maybe doesn't want to pitch and doesn't know how but just try?
Heck if no one else wants to pitch someone will be forced to. Heaven forbid. I don't like to think that any player is being forced to do anything out on the field they dont want, but there are players playing positions they'd rather not because they prefer a different position. That happens.



Coming back from a bad inning out on the field to the next inning is character building.



Got it.
You think 50 pitches is overuse.
You are entitled to your opinion.

SbSpirit - I cannot see your full profile, so I don't know you, your background, or experience. Based on how you have responded and your inferred tone, you sound like a high school or jr. high coach (assumptions are what they are). Yes I believe 50+ pitches in ONE inning for a NON-PITCHER is too much. I don't know if I have ever in my 20+ years of coaching seen a pitcher throw 50+ pitches in ONE inning. If she felt her arm was at risk, she did the right thing in my opinion.

Once again this is really about KIDS being forced or asked to jeopardize their futures for a MEANINGLESS high school game --- I think we can agree on that topic.