How's that working for you???

[DanMaz]

50 in one inning? OMG... why didnt the other coach "lead off early" to get out of the inning and save some face for this kid and team? does anyone have sportsmanship anymore?
i have a slight problem with putting a non experienced player at the pitching position for basic safety reasons but thats another day and another thread that can be discussed later.

 

[SbSpirit]

SbSpirit - I cannot see your full profile, so I don't know you, your background, or experience. Based on how you have responded and your inferred tone, you sound like a high school or jr. high coach (assumptions are what they are).

Your assumption about my experience is Wrong.
There is no inferred tone, there was asking a legitimate question to your complaint.
As a person who calls yourself a coach you never came up with a solution.

I also said you're entitled to your opinion and people are entitled to theirs as well that may not agree.

 

[SbSpirit]

50 in one inning? OMG... why didnt the other coach "lead off early" to get out of the inning and save some face for this kid and team? does anyone have sportsmanship anymore?
i have a slight problem with putting a non experienced player at the pitching position for basic safety reasons but thats another day and another thread that can be discussed later.

Thank goodness for other perspective and discussion points.

 

[daboss]

I'm not sure there is a clear answer to this problem. If the action is without intention, a coach in this dilemma may need to resort to forfeit to the dismay of the other players and probably the majority of parents watching. There truly is no good answer here.

Only hindsight.

He doesn't have a "true" pitcher. If the only girls he has won't step up and take the circle, what else is left? There's really nothing he can do!

Years ago, I was approached by a neighboring school district to help them with their fastpitch program. They had 2 new volunteer coaches with no fastpitch experience and 28 girls signed up to try out for the team. Only 1 girl with fastpitch experience. The community supported a slowpitch program and only 1 girl ever ventured out to try her hand at fastpitch and she was a classic shortstop daughter that really couldn't hit. I was asked to teach the coaches how to coach and the girls how to play. After hosting a series of basic catch, field, and throwing clinics (yes it was that bad) the rules at that time allowed pitchers and catchers to report early for the school season. I told the coaches to instruct the entire team to report. Until we could find who could pitch and who could catch, they were all pitchers and catchers. I literally had them line up and do a basic "learn how to pitch" lesson, of all 28 girls. From that we spend 5 days working and weeding them out while working with the others to try their hand at catching. I ended up with 4 catcher prospects and 8 girls that displayed potential to pitch, 4 were actually good prospects. They decided to split the girls and field a reserve team since everyone was so enthusiastic and established their rosters. Each roster carried 2 of the better pitching prospects but again, all were 1st yr pitchers. They could throw strikes but that was the extent of it. Before the season would begin, 3 of the 4 better prospects were declared academically ineligible and faced the music with the AD. They never came back.

Thru insurmountable odds they played the entire season and had about 4 wins. Thanks to the parents they changed the summer little league program to fastpitch. I hosted a couple clinics to teach the kids "How to pitch 101" and a handful sought lessons the following winter. The community is now supporting the change and the high school program plays at about a .500 win/loss record, and a few girls are now involved with low-level travel ball programs.

Oh, the head school co-Coaches that season quit. I think they were a bit overwhelmed by it all. An enthusiastic parent stepped up, got certified, and led the school team till the next volunteer thought they could do better.

And the circle of life of school ball in many communities goes on and on.................

 

[CoachTEA]

Your assumption about my experience is Wrong.
There is no inferred tone, there was asking a legitimate question to your complaint.
As a person who calls yourself a coach you never came up with a solution.

I also said you're entitled to your opinion and people are entitled to theirs as well that may not agree.

Ummm...okay. I *believe* I came up with a solution, but I will re-iterate again:
1) No game is worth risking a kid's health/future - you and I agree on that
2) No coach should enter a season (school, rec, or travel) with only one pitcher.
3) If have only one legitimate pitcher - find/develop another one. My daughter, a non-pitcher, learned to pitch in high school - it can be done
4) The coach owns the "pitching problem" and yes, I believe it builds character to step up and help the team - you and I agree on that
5) I am not everyone's "cup of tea" as a coach, but I am honored people still call me "Coach" which includes 30 girls and their families this season alone (two 18u teams) and several more who are still playing in college.

I agree we are entitled to own opinions and sincerely wish you and yours all the best.

 

[CoachTEA]

I'm not sure there is a clear answer to this problem. If the action is without intention, a coach in this dilemma may need to resort to forfeit to the dismay of the other players and probably the majority of parents watching. There truly is no good answer here.

Only hindsight.

He doesn't have a "true" pitcher. If the only girls he has won't step up and take the circle, what else is left? There's really nothing he can do!

Years ago, I was approached by a neighboring school district to help them with their fastpitch program. They had 2 new volunteer coaches with no fastpitch experience and 28 girls signed up to try out for the team. Only 1 girl with fastpitch experience. The community supported a slowpitch program and only 1 girl ever ventured out to try her hand at fastpitch and she was a classic shortstop daughter that really couldn't hit. I was asked to teach the coaches how to coach and the girls how to play. After hosting a series of basic catch, field, and throwing clinics (yes it was that bad) the rules at that time allowed pitchers and catchers to report early for the school season. I told the coaches to instruct the entire team to report. Until we could find who could pitch and who could catch, they were all pitchers and catchers. I literally had them line up and do a basic "learn how to pitch" lesson, of all 28 girls. From that we spend 5 days working and weeding them out while working with the others to try their hand at catching. I ended up with 4 catcher prospects and 8 girls that displayed potential to pitch, 4 were actually good prospects. They decided to split the girls and field a reserve team since everyone was so enthusiastic and established their rosters. Each roster carried 2 of the better pitching prospects but again, all were 1st yr pitchers. They could throw strikes but that was the extent of it. Before the season would begin, 3 of the 4 better prospects were declared academically ineligible and faced the music with the AD. They never came back.

Thru insurmountable odds they played the entire season and had about 4 wins. Thanks to the parents they changed the summer little league program to fastpitch. I hosted a couple clinics to teach the kids "How to pitch 101" and a handful sought lessons the following winter. The community is now supporting the change and the high school program plays at about a .500 win/loss record, and a few girls are now involved with low-level travel ball programs.

Oh, the head school co-Coaches that season quit. I think they were a bit overwhelmed by it all. An enthusiastic parent stepped up, got certified, and led the school team till the next volunteer thought they could do better.

And the circle of life of school ball in many communities goes on and on.................

Great and inspiring story daBoss!!!

 

[SbSpirit]

2) No coach should enter a season (school, rec, or travel) with only one pitcher.

It does happen where teams have one.
And sometimes teams have more than one except are limited to only one in a game.
As a coach would you then forfeit
as @daboss commented?

3) If have only one legitimate pitcher - find/develop another one.

Sure good idea.

Then what happens if nobody else wants to step up and learn?

You have said nobody should be forced to do what they don't want on the field so therein lies an issue.
What do you do if nobody wants to step up to pitch? Do you then have to tell somebody they must?

My daughter, a non-pitcher, learned to pitch in high school - it can be done

Yes. It can be done!

What I notice (in general) on discussion forums it's easy for some folks to bring up a complaint/ concern. Most of the time difficult to offer every detail to the team situation. Making discussion important.

When I read on forums people complaining without offering a solution then it's just a complaint and that becomes old.

 

[CARDS]

In SW Ohio softball is struggling. Pitching is nowhere close to where it was 10 years ago. Many schools in softball conferences ECC/GMC/GWOC conferences are struggling to field JV teams and the Large conferences are folding freshman teams for JV B.
Colerain announced Friday they were dropping the JV program a huge shocker. Last year and this year ECC/GMC/SWOC struggled fielding JV and the ones that did field JV played a split schedule vs. the varsity teams CMAC, CHL, MV conferences.

Honestly, the best player that can pitch needs to have the ball in their hand at the HS level, then catcher, then first base since these three positions handle the ball more than any other position and if a team is lucky enough to have a player playing summer ball nowadays that is generally where they end up.
Now we all know High School ball is nothing like travel ball.
A lady may be the number 7 or 9 batter on their travel club and top three on their HS team. The player may play SS or CF on their club team but be the best option at P, C, 1B in the HS team. I think a lot of the times, Travel players/parents do not like to lose... If they are the pitcher they get the L behind their name and that hurts more than any potential soreness from pitching. Now with that said, if the player cannot throw strikes you have to move on to your next best option that may put that pitcher/player at the next position where the athleticism/experience is needed. C,1B,SS etc.
As far as developing a player to pitch. The schools lucky enough to have middle school programs still struggle with most of the players that only play during school. No private instruction and honestly its slow pitch softball that is called fast pitch in the majority of leagues.

 

[SbSpirit]

In SW Ohio softball is struggling. Pitching is nowhere close to where it was 10 years ago. Many schools in softball ECC/GMC conferences are struggling to field JV teams and the Large conferences are folding freshman teams for JV B. Colerain announced Friday they were dropping the JV program a huge shocker.

Honestly, the best player that can pitch needs to have the ball in their hand at the HS level, then catcher, then first base since these three positions handle the ball more than any other position and if a team is lucky enough to have a player playing summer ball nowadays that is generally where they end up.
Now we all know High School ball is nothing like travel ball.
A lady may be the number 7 or 9 batter on their travel club and top three on their HS team. The player may play SS or CF on their club team but be the best option at P, C, 1B in the HS team. I think a lot of the times, Travel players/parents do not like to lose... If they are the pitcher they get the L behind their name and that hurts more than any potential soreness from pitching. Now with that said, if the player cannot throw strikes you have to move on to your next best option that may put that pitcher/player at the next position where the athleticism/experience is needed. C,1B,SS etc.

Nice to read that added perspective!

 

[Captain_Thunder]

In SW Ohio softball is struggling. Pitching is nowhere close to where it was 10 years ago. Many schools in softball conferences ECC/GMC/GWOC conferences are struggling to field JV teams and the Large conferences are folding freshman teams for JV B.
Colerain announced Friday they were dropping the JV program a huge shocker. Last year and this year ECC/GMC/SWOC struggled fielding JV and the ones that did field JV played a split schedule vs. the varsity teams CMAC, CHL, MV conferences.

Honestly, the best player that can pitch needs to have the ball in their hand at the HS level, then catcher, then first base since these three positions handle the ball more than any other position and if a team is lucky enough to have a player playing summer ball nowadays that is generally where they end up.
Now we all know High School ball is nothing like travel ball.
A lady may be the number 7 or 9 batter on their travel club and top three on their HS team. The player may play SS or CF on their club team but be the best option at P, C, 1B in the HS team. I think a lot of the times, Travel players/parents do not like to lose... If they are the pitcher they get the L behind their name and that hurts more than any potential soreness from pitching. Now with that said, if the player cannot throw strikes you have to move on to your next best option that may put that pitcher/player at the next position where the athleticism/experience is needed. C,1B,SS etc.
As far as developing a player to pitch. The schools lucky enough to have middle school programs still struggle with most of the players that only play during school. No private instruction and honestly its slow pitch softball that is called fast pitch in the majority of leagues.

I blame the majority of these problems on Varsity Head Coaches who majority do not care about building a program!!! 3 of the biggest schools in SWO, who have all made trips to state tournaments over the last decade - they had great feeder programs! Not because of them, but because of the Rec and what started with what the community provided. Some are lucky like that. But since they were in place for many years, they never worried about building for the future - and it has began to catch up!
If you build a program the numbers will continue! If you just cross your fingers and do nothing - then you will be dropping JV teams and having fewer options!

 

[DanMaz]

Honestly, the best player that can pitch needs to have the ball in their hand at the HS level, then catcher, then first base since these three positions handle the ball more than any other position and if a team is lucky enough to have a player playing summer ball nowadays that is generally where they end up.

this made me chuckle--- because its true and because it reminded me of 8 u or 9 u ball.... best pitcher is pitching or who ever can get it over the plate, best person that can catch the pitchers ball goes behind the plate, then next person that can catch the ball goes to 1st base since 80% of the outs go to 1st base.... lol it brought back some good ol memories. so high school ball is some way similar to 8u and 9u. TRUE!!!! lol

 

[CoachTEA]

I blame the majority of these problems on Varsity Head Coaches who majority do not care about building a program!!! 3 of the biggest schools in SWO, who have all made trips to state tournaments over the last decade - they had great feeder programs! Not because of them, but because of the Rec and what started with what the community provided. Some are lucky like that. But since they were in place for many years, they never worried about building for the future - and it has began to catch up!
If you build a program the numbers will continue! If you just cross your fingers and do nothing - then you will be dropping JV teams and having fewer options!

Russ - I agree. The commitment to the feeder programs is not there and they have declined significantly through the year I have been coaching. Not many Rec programs are as committed to softball as they are to baseball - not right, but true. Schools like Mason and the Lakota was soooo fortunate because they are large and they get so many talented kids. 5 of Lakota West's 9 starters are went D1 - that level of talent is intoxicating, but when little or nothing is done to develop "the next generation" - well you will reap what you sow.

 

[SbSpirit]

Russ - I agree. The commitment to the feeder programs is not there and they have declined significantly through the year I have been coaching. Not many Rec programs are as committed to softball as they are to baseball - not right, but true. Schools like Mason and the Lakota was soooo fortunate because they are large and they get so many talented kids. 5 of Lakota West's 9 starters are went D1 - that level of talent is intoxicating, but when little or nothing is done to develop "the next generation" - well you will reap what you sow.

What I notice in the community I live in now is there rec and little league programs the volunteering parents coaching are overseeing practices
(like babysitting) but maybe do not have the skill sets to run developmental practices.

** it's nice to have parents stepping up to volunteer. Do think that it could be a better situation if those that understand softball better can help at the beginner levels develop better practices to understand Basics like throwing catching hitting pitching.
And if people are going to step up to call themselves coach maybe they should atleast do some internet research to get a little better at the title coach.

The community I used to live in the people who were more interested in better softball left the city leagues at earlier ages. Created many more travel teams, 10u travel flourished greatly.

 

[CoachTEA]

What I notice in the community I live in now is there rec and little league programs the volunteering parents coaching are overseeing practices
(like babysitting) but maybe do not have the skill sets to run developmental practices.

** it's nice to have parents stepping up to volunteer. Do think that it could be a better situation if those that understand softball better can help at the beginner levels develop better practices to understand Basics like throwing catching hitting pitching.
And if people are going to step up to call themselves coach maybe they should atleast do some internet research to get a little better at the title coach.

The community I used to live in the people who were more interested in better softball left the city leagues at earlier ages. Created many more travel teams, 10u travel flourished greatly.

It's funny when I stated coaching softball, I knew baseball as a fan, player, and umpire (umpired 40 years or so) and I relied on folks like Jackie Cornelius and Galen ? (Misty Bridges' father) for my education in the differences and God Bless Chris Minor for all that I learned from her.

 

[SbSpirit]

It's funny when I stated coaching softball, I knew baseball as a fan, player, and umpire (umpired 40 years or so) and I relied on folks like Jackie Cornelius and Galen ? (Misty Bridges' father) for my education in the differences and God Bless Chris Minor for all that I learned from her.

Thank you for umpiring!
Great example you posted about finding softball resources!

 

[CARDS]

Russ - I agree. The commitment to the feeder programs is not there and they have declined significantly through the year I have been coaching. Not many Rec programs are as committed to softball as they are to baseball - not right, but true. Schools like Mason and the Lakota was soooo fortunate because they are large and they get so many talented kids. 5 of Lakota West's 9 starters are went D1 - that level of talent is intoxicating, but when little or nothing is done to develop "the next generation" - well you will reap what you sow.

There is a large gap between the haves and have not's...and schools with athletic offices and how they operate.

Like has been mentioned: Your Mason, Kings, Lebanon, Lakota's, and about a dozen others have so much more support and resources to operate their programs than the majority of schools in the SW Ohio communities.

I have coached for 4 different SW High Schools over the past 14 years. Two in the GMC, One ECC and MVL. With the REDS HS programs I have worked with the ladies come from about 25 area HS that include schools in the GMC, ECC, SWOC,CMAC, MVL.

All but one of the HS I have coached at struggle with ladies sports especially; softball.
With my time with the REDS I have seen a lot of HS programs that do not have a softball field or one field for multiple programs.

There are a lot of challenges when teams have to use a local park to play games. In some cases it creates issues with the local recreational league as they have to give up field time for the school teams. Dealing with the general public and field upkeep is also big issues when using community parks.

The current school I am at had good tryout numbers this year. (34) There was also over 30 for the middle school.
Like many High school programs you take as many as you have uniforms for. With the varsity program we have 15. (Honestly 8/9 ladies are Varsity level the other 6/7 are a little better than the current JV.
At JV there are 15 on the team (even though we only had 13 uniforms) the other 2 have uniforms that are close in color.

The school faces challenges like a lot of other schools with no team bats, no team batting helmets, no safety gear/game faces and only one set of catchers gear for each team.
Play it again sports gives vouchers for $15 so the ladies can get cleats or a glove. Maybe the parents throw in more and picks up a cheap bat.
As discussed already, Softball and baseball have more cost for the players. In some cases with schools it hurts with getting ladies out.

Now there are softball programs struggling with numbers that are historically softball schools with resources.
I think some of this is a product of "more options" for ladies with dance, music, clubs at a lot of schools. Add in club/varsity teams like LX where they can start it creates a huge impact on numbers.
At several of the big schools Cheer is year around anymore with competitions over the winter and in the spring and AAU, Soccer, Volleyball, Basketball that is also going on year around and pulling ladies that would play softball away as many chose to forgo HS sports in chase of that club team college scholarship or so many think.

With that said...
Three of the 4 schools I have coached at have a 5 day summer camp that gets 20 to 30 ladies out 10years old and up, 2 winter clinics, big sister / little sister programs, middle is school honored at varsity game, Jackie Robinson week games and a senior game that we try to make as memorable as possible. These are program Wins and we take them where we can get them because if one only looked at the W-L of the varsity team one would not get a full picture of the program.

 

[daboss]

What I notice in the community I live in now is there rec and little league programs the volunteering parents coaching are overseeing practices
(like babysitting) but maybe do not have the skill sets to run developmental practices.

** it's nice to have parents stepping up to volunteer. Do think that it could be a better situation if those that understand softball better can help at the beginner levels develop better practices to understand Basics like throwing catching hitting pitching.
And if people are going to step up to call themselves coach maybe they should atleast do some internet research to get a little better at the title coach.

The community I used to live in the people who were more interested in better softball left the city leagues at earlier ages. Created many more travel teams, 10u travel flourished greatly.

What you have noticed is widespread but seldom will you find parents willing to seek an education of the game. In our local community I have tried to get the program to have a mandatory coaches clinic to review their duties and to point out some of the basics they really need to work on to teach fastpitch. For 2 seasons we had a LOT of interest as fastpitch was basically new to them but after that the mindset was they knew everything, few would attend. As the years progressed the program suffered and just getting a parent or 2 to oversee a team is now difficult.

The majority of the younger generation has no interest in volunteering. The scope of this became very apparent to me a few years ago when I heard parents approach the local Commissioner. They wanted to be paid to work the concession stand at the ballpark, a job all parents were asked to take a turn one time during the season when their kids were not playing. The idea was to make money to offset the costs for the league and keep the fees as low as possible. They were asked to work once a season, yet the duties ended up falling on a handful. Parents sat under shade trees visiting and watched multiple games that did not involve their own family members, but would not do their part. I consider this a smug attitude while so few work tirelessly to provide a program for our youth. Game days are a social gathering in our community. They, more than likely, are already at the park. I saw them.

It makes me wonder if it is worth the effort. At 68 yrs old and still working full time, it shouldn't fall on my shoulders anymore.

All the bickering, normally from non-involved parents, has forced this volunteer Commissioner with 10+ successful years to resign, A Commissioner with a passion for youth sports and no kids playing! It's leaving a void in the program that currently nobody will step up and fill the vacancy. This is a prime example of the problems that I'm confronted with as people reach out asking for advice. It's widespread and it's challenging the future of our game.

FYI, I'm not involved in the sport at the level that many of the regulars are, not anymore. I'm not in it for the money. My interest for years has been to promote youth sports for girls so they can have equal opportunity. I do consider them equal. If you have interest in my past involvement, you can find a lot of that information in my profile......

Oh come on, I had to take that shot. lol

 

[SbSpirit]

What you have noticed is widespread but seldom will you find parents willing to seek an education of the game. In our local community I have tried to get the program to have a mandatory coaches clinic to review their duties and to point out some of the basics they really need to work on to teach fastpitch. For 2 seasons we had a LOT of interest as fastpitch was basically new to them but after that the mindset was they knew everything, few would attend. As the years progressed the program suffered and just getting a parent or 2 to oversee a team is now difficult.

The majority of the younger generation has no interest in volunteering. The scope of this became very apparent to me a few years ago when I heard parents approach the local Commissioner. They wanted to be paid to work the concession stand at the ballpark, a job all parents were asked to take a turn one time during the season when their kids were not playing. The idea was to make money to offset the costs for the league and keep the fees as low as possible. They were asked to work once a season, yet the duties ended up falling on a handful. Parents sat under shade trees visiting and watched multiple games that did not involve their own family members, but would not do their part. I consider this a smug attitude while so few work tirelessly to provide a program for our youth. Game days are a social gathering in our community. They, more than likely, are already at the park. I saw them.

It makes me wonder if it is worth the effort. At 68 yrs old and still working full time, it shouldn't fall on my shoulders anymore.

All the bickering, normally from non-involved parents, has forced this volunteer Commissioner with 10+ successful years to resign, A Commissioner with a passion for youth sports and no kids playing! It's leaving a void in the program that currently nobody will step up and fill the vacancy. This is a prime example of the problems that I'm confronted with as people reach out asking for advice. It's widespread and it's challenging the future of our game.

FYI, I'm not involved in the sport at the level that many of the regulars are, not anymore. I'm not in it for the money. My interest for years has been to promote youth sports for girls so they can have equal opportunity. I do consider them equal. If you have interest in my past involvement, you can find a lot of that information in my profile......

Oh come on, I had to take that shot. lol

Lol good effort !

 

[IRdad09]

Understandable to not want injury.
However 50 pitches is not an overload of pitching in a game. In one inning is unfortunately a lot but not yet an overload.
Especially to players that are going to go play in college.
A pitcher working their way through a situation could be good character building.

Will leave this to the forums continued discussions.

50+ pitches for a non pitcher as the post states is A LOT. My guess would be that is the coach/team/player in this post were a pitcher then it would not be a discussion to start with.

 

[SbSpirit]

50+ pitches for a non pitcher as the post states is A LOT. My guess would be that is the coach/team/player in this post were a pitcher then it would not be a discussion to start with.

For discussion will add
That there are many times pitchers who are just starting out, learning to be pitchers, throw over 50 pitches. That and they are completely new to the sport of softball. Even a beginner's workout can be 50 plus pitches. Watching rec ball see little kids throwing well over 50 pitches in full games. Sometimes in one inning. ( doesn't mean it's right, but there is a perspective that 50 is not a lot, especially at high school level)

In this case the op commented this is a well-seasoned player who was put in the circle. So not new to softball. Without knowing the player can only take the detail that the coach had put her in to pitch. Maybe she wanted to. Maybe she had previous pitching experience before she became an outfielder. But there were no details just that the coach thought to put her in to pitch. Didn't say her arm is sore, take me out. It said she thought perhaps she could help her team better if she played a different position.

There were also no other details about the team being talked about and what other 'potential' pitchers were on their roster.
(perhaps I missed those details somewhere) this is why I asked further questions like... >>do you just put someone in who doesn't know how to pitch and see if they can try?

In the big picture of softball 50 pitches is not a lot. As i previously commented it's a lot for one inning.

For the most part the op is just complaining about another coach and how they are coaching their team without offering a solution.