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Thread: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    2015/2016 Ohio Outlaws Gold-Blashinsky (4)USF (University S. Florida) Toledo, Marist, Purdue, U of Pitt, Penn State

    2015/2016 Ohio Outlaws Premier-Galawinia Lehigh, Bowling Green, Kent State, (3)E. Illinois, YSU
    Last edited by WWolff; 09-12-2017 at 08:41 PM.
    "Everyone has the opportunity to play - but the opportunity is earned before the game. The game isn't the opportunity."

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    Quote Originally Posted by WWolff View Post
    2015/2016 Ohio Outlaws Gold-Blashinsky (4)USF (University S. Florida) Toledo, Marist, Purdue, U of Pitt, Penn State

    2015/2016 Ohio Outlaws Premier-Galawinia Lehigh, Bowling Green, Kent State, (3)E. Illinois, YSU
    I was waiting for Warren to respond with his list. It's impressive when one realizes that the Outlaws are a relatively new organization. One might attribute the Outlaws success to their heavy PGF schedule, or their impressive website, or their awesome uniforms, but in the end, the relationships that Warren has built with schools in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, etc is the real engine that drive the commitments.
    Sure, players go back and forth between Lasers/Outlaws/Bandits, etc, but one cannot deny the success that Warren and his staff have achieved since 2009.

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    Quote Originally Posted by lewam3 View Post
    One might attribute the Outlaws success to their ... impressive website, or their awesome uniforms
    I was getting ready to yell "are you kidding me?" until you added the "in the end" part. Nicely done!
    I still can't listen to classical music without thinking of Bugs Bunny cartoons.

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    "Many of us just want to see our kids shoot for the best. If they fall just 1 or 2 notches short of that we don't plan to disown them or stop loving them. Diversity is what makes the world interesting, but we shouldn't have to be made to feel like an elitist if we don't mention that with each and every post!"

    Go back and read your post. Look at what you said. This is exactly what the people are talking about. You first say that D1 is best and then if you don't go D1 you have fallen one or two notches short. This mindset is so deeply ingrained that you don't even recognize how condescending you are towards players who don't play D1. Here is a newsflash for you. First, not al D1 softball programs are "the best". There are D2 teams who could hand D1 teams a loss any day. Second, there are players who also want to "shoot for the best" who don't consider a D1 school "the best". Sorry but getting a degree from Case Western is a lot more impressive than getting one from Cleveland State or Kent. Yet players are routinely made to feel that they "have fallen a notch or two short" because they aspire to actually go to a good academic school to get a great degree rather than chase a spot on D1 team that results in a degree from a mediocre school at best. There are even coaches and teams that just don't want you if you don't want to attend a D1 school because you will ruin their recruiting stats.And how about the girls who aspire to an Ivy League school but are pressured to commit to a different D1 school that is academically inferior just so they (and their parents and team) can say they committed in 8th grade.? Sorry but you are stuck with that degree forever and the degree is why you go to college. This whole D1 is the best stuff is mortgaging players' futures just so parents and coaches have something to brag about for a year or two. So if we are talking about "aspiring for the best", in my opinion, the sports division of the school does not factor into the equation. Try looking at test scores, admission standards, graduation rates, grad school acceptance, income figures, etc. - that is how you will find "the best" colleges. If you are telling your players anything else you don't have their best interests at heart.


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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    Ok there is a lot of truth in much of this but it deserves its own thread . I've had my curiosities answered and FWIW the mod's can close the thread , and the ( valid) debate about who pushes kids and whose best interest is being served can be had with it's own thread . I do think its a valid topic and I believe a FEW individuals push their kids to go D1 because it strokes the ego . I've had players tell me they love our school and seem to close to signing and all of a sudden go to a school 700 miles away with a 40K a year tuition .... but ultimately it lies with the player and her family , no one forces a kid to take a 25 % -50% D1 ride at a 30-50 K a year school when a d2 or NAIA may be offering 75 % at 8 K a year . I'm not knocking either one , its great the choices are available .

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    Softballmom 3687, thanks for the discussion. I did go back and read what I wrote and I think you are just simply reading into what was written how your emotions direct you to take it. First off, if you are actually denying that D1 sports is not the dominant division over all others than you are just fooling yourself and no rational discussion can take place. We do not always include in what we write that in some cases high end NAIA and D2 programs can sometimes beat lower end D1 programs because it is understood by nearly everyone. It's an unnecessary waste of time and this disclaimer should not have to continuously be written to prove we don't "look down our noses" at non-D1 athletes. Secondly, it is DEFINITELY NOT condescending to come on a softball website and want to discuss and learn about the best strategies past players and coaches have used to get to the top. What's alarming is this mindset on here that if anyone so much as mentions D1 softball, they are trashing every other division or choices that players have made. Open your eyes SM3687, an NAIA coach is the OP on THIS post!!! I would have really liked to have heard discussion on how some of those older Laser teams and more recent Outlaw teams achieved their success stories. But... time and time again on OFC the PC police jump on and remind us that to talk about elite level ball or D1 ball is hurtful to those who don't go that route (by choice or otherwise). Finally, when we talk about condescending here is a newsflash for you... YOU take the cake. I have a CWRU grad in my family, as well as a daughter currently attending KSU as a freshman. The KSU daughter is attending that school over CWRU because in her major KSU IS ABSOLUTELY the better school... hands down! Now if we were all wired the way you are, I would need to enlist the PC police again because you are making me feel bad for sending my daughter to a school that you outright tell me is "less impressive" than your standard sets. You don't even call it opinion, you just state it as fact. And what about those brilliant kids who attend KSU and CSU because they can't afford the $60,000 price tag... what do your words tell them about themselves? And... God forbid, what if a girls takes a scholarship at CSU to play D1 softball because it was HER DREAM. Why do you look down your nose at her because it is different than your idea of what's "impressive?" You are going down an incredibly slippery slope SM3687. Some of us just really want to come on here and talk softball.
    To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift...
    Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it... (Steve Prefontaine)


    Tom Schmeiser
    Outlaws '03 Schmeiser

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    so it is an unecessary waste of time to mention that some D2/NAIA etc can beat some D1 schools but it is somehow a totally knock out argument that Kent might have a handful of majors out of hundreds that are higher ranked than an elite academic school like Case Western or some other D2/D3/NAIA school (and I'm not picking on Kent or raving about Case Western- they are just two that have way different academic standards for admission, etc.)? It sounds like you have the flip side of the complex that you are accusing others of having.

    No one balks at a mere "mention" of D1 schools. If you think that, you are the one who is super sensitive. What some people have a problem with is the clear obsession with D1 schools and only D1 schools as a be all end all indication of your skill level in softball. Anyone who plays softball at a high level would be lying if they said this obsession didn't exist. They get it from coaches, organizations, private instructors, other players and other parents. Don't think that the girls don't feel this and get the message. "You are playing D3 ball? How cute. Sorry you aren't an elite player."

    Again, just go back to your own words. You said D1 is the best and anything else is falling a notch or two short. Those were your words- I'm not reading into them and teenaged girls would most likely take those words the same way. This type of black and white statement is where you are getting yourself into trouble.

    Don't fool yourself into thinking this attitude doesn't pressure players into choosing schools that aren't the best option, rushing into a decision before they even know what a "major" is or waiting on some D1 offer that never comes because D1 is "the best" and that is what is expected of them.

    The loser in all of this is the girl on one of those "we place all players in D1" teams who is well into her senior year and still doesn't have any D1 offer and most likely won't who then finds out that she is also too late for most other divisions and might not get to play at all- or if she does find a school still looking that the price tag is too high or her test scores too low.
    Last edited by softballmom3687; 09-13-2017 at 01:50 PM.

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    Interesting read..........BUT please use paragraphs to make it a little easier for us old folk to read!

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    Quote Originally Posted by softballmom3687 View Post
    so it is an unecessary waste of time to mention that some D2/NAIA etc can beat some D1 schools but it is somehow a totally knock out argument that Kent might have a handful of majors out of hundreds that are higher ranked than an elite academic school like Case Western or some other D2/D3/NAIA school (and I'm not picking on Kent or raving about Case Western- they are just two that have way different academic standards for admission, etc.)? It sounds like you have the flip side of the complex that you are accusing others of having.

    No one balks at a mere "mention" of D1 schools. If you think that, you are the one who is super sensitive. What some people have a problem with is the clear obsession with D1 schools and only D1 schools as a be all end all indication of your skill level in softball. Anyone who plays softball at a high level would be lying if they said this obsession didn't exist. They get it from coaches, organizations, private instructors, other players and other parents. Don't think that the girls don't feel this and get the message. Again, just go back to your own words. You said D1 is the best and anything else is falling a notch or two short. That is what people who want to look out for the girls and their futures object to. You can acknowledge the pros and cons of each type of school based on what the student-athelete's end goal is and then determine what school is best. Flat out statements like D1 is best and the others are falling a notch short is where you are getting yourself into trouble. Again, don't fool yourself into thinking this attitude doesn't pressure players into choosing schools that aren't the best option, rushing into a decision before they even know what a "major" is or waiting on some D1 offer that never comes because D1 is "the best" and that is what is expected of them.

    The loser in all of this is the girl on one of those "we place all players in D1" teams who is well into her senior year and still doesn't have any D1 offer and most likely won't who then finds out that she is also too late for most other divisions and might not get to play at all- or if she does find a school still looking that the price tag is too high or her test scores too low.
    I would like to find common ground with you, but it's difficult. I am certainly a big supporter of softball at EVERY level (from rec to pros), but yet you seem quite content chastising me about something you can clearly go back and see I did not say -- at least not the way you are stating it was written. I said I want my kids to shoot for the highest level and don't disown them if they don't hit the mark perfectly. You somehow want to lecture me that there is more to life than softball and that what I wrote was pertaining to softball ONLY when it wasn't and I think any fair read of that would confirm it. Again, anyone that knows me knows that I have put my money where my mouth is in terms of teaching my kids to shoot for the best in terms of academics, sports, faith, friends, etc... Softball is a big PART of TWO of my four daughter's lives and yes, in terms of sports, we have always shot for the best. But that has been true for my non-sport playing daughters in what they do which in my family is valued just as much. When you write: "Anyone who plays softball at a high level would be lying if they said this obsession didn't exist. They get it from coaches, organizations, private instructors, other players and other parents..." you seem to be missing the fact that many get it from themselves. I think in general, you appear to take exception to those who strive for excellence and seem to think it impossible that a 8th or 9th grader could be doing it all on her own. I wonder just how many high-level softball players you know, because most of the ones I know that have made it that far are deeply driven internally. Also, when you write: "Again, don't fool yourself into thinking this attitude doesn't pressure players into choosing schools that aren't the best option, rushing into a decision before they even know what a "major" is or waiting on some D1 offer that never comes because D1 is "the best" and that is what is expected of them." that can apply to any false standard a kid may set. That's not softball specific... hell, if you were advising my daughter she'd be tens of thousands in debt going to CWRU instead of KSU, because you think you know something about "elite" academics vs. non-elite academics. You talk about those "we place all players in D1" teams, yet I can't think of one in Ohio that does that. I know you are not talking about my org, because I am on the advisory committee that put together our D2/NAIA track that Tim White handles. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but like I have said over and over again, many of us are just interested in seeing softball reach the highest levels attainable in our state. People come on here to learn and to promote... not to make children and their parents feel inferior. If my words somehow are giving you an impression otherwise then you really do have my apologies.
    To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift...
    Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it... (Steve Prefontaine)


    Tom Schmeiser
    Outlaws '03 Schmeiser

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    Re: Just for fun , in the last few years , say 5 years, What is the most

    Canisius , Bowling Green , Presbyterian and Youngstown State,
    4 from 2017 and one more in the next week!

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