2005 Rocketech - blue says illegal because it's "flat"

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During our pre-game last Friday, the umpires were checking bats. Came to DD's 05 RT and the umpires said it couldn't be used. She has an 04 and another girl on the team has an 05 so at least she wasn't without options. After the game, I asked the crew for a minute of their time and if they would be willing to explain why it couldn't be used. They said it was because the bat had a "flat" spot on the barrel. Not being familiar with the equipment rules, I asked if they had used a template or something to measure it. He said he didn't need to since he could feel the "flat spot". Is there a specific rule that deals with how "flat" bats are allowed to be? I felt the bat and it isn't perfectly round (it's 5 years old) but I certainly wouldn't classify it as "flat".
 
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Yes, it is illegal. It is considered "altered".....It does not have to be intentionally altered.
Most bats are warranted but not under 70 degree temperature or in batting cages.
 
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You just have to be able to feel the flat spot. That is all it takes, bat is altered because of the dent.
 
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Rule 1-5-1c: The bat shall be free of rattles, dents, burrs, cracks and sharp edges.

Rule 1-5-2d: The barrel...shall be smooth and round.

There aren't any specs to measure (like, round within +/- .250") or definitions that pin down an exact meaning for "a dent" or for "round". Bat legality is left up to the discretion of the umpire inspecting the bat.

Personally, I do know that the R/T bats can have "waves" along the barrel and tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the batter and bat. As long as the surface is not deformed with an actual crease in the metal, I might not call that "a dent".

I'd really have to see it to say for sure one way or the other. But it is within the umpire's right and jurisdiction to disqualify any bat he feels does not meet the requirements of the equipment rules.
 
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My oldest dd's bat was called illegal for a dent. When buying bats, that's the first thing I look for.
 
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Take the bat to the next game and odds are they won't dis qualify it. It will most likely become a game by game situation. Let us know how that comes out.
 
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I wouldn't call this an altered bat- not that it makes any difference under high school rules.

Bats that do not meet spec can fall into three different catagories:

1) Illegal Bat: One that is otherwise legal, but is damaged. The R/T in the first post would fall under this catagory, if any.

2) Altered Bat: One whose physical structure has been purposely altered- shaved, rolled, etc.

3) Non-Approved Bat: One that does not carry the ASA certification mark or that appears on the non-approved bat list.

Under high school rules, all three types of bat are treated the same way. If discovered before the game, the bat is removed without further penalty. If discovered during the game (being used by a batter), the batter is out. The team is issued a warning and the next player on that team to use any of these three types of bats out and restricted to the dugout.

ASA rules are different. There are different penalties for the different types of bats.

For an illegal bat, the batter is called out. For an altered or non-approved bat, the batter is called out and ejected from the game.
 
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Take the bat to the next game and odds are they won't dis qualify it. It will most likely become a game by game situation. Let us know how that comes out.

Funny you should mention it. When I spoke with the umpiring crew after the game, that's exactly what the plate umpire suggested. He said it might be OK with the next umpire but it wasn't OK with him. DD used the bat all day Saturday without any problems.

To clarify - the bat cetainly has not been intentionally altered. It is only "altered" from it's new condition through lots and lots of use.
 
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When it comes to "Umpire Discretion" determining if a bat has a dent or not is just plain assanign!! If they have no legitimate way of measuring it or proving its hazard then they should just leave it alone.

What effect does a dent have in a bat anyway (as long as it rings)?? Never seen anyone hurt or gain anything with a dented bat!! Just plain and simply ridiculous. Some umpires get one thing stuck in there mind and that is all they're looking for and then overlook the most obvious stuff, including interpretation of rules.
 
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My daughter pitches. If I were an ump I'd throw out every '04 and '05 R/T. I hate those bats! Saw a girl using an '04 in a college game yesterday, brought back bad memories of 250' home runs.
 
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I wouldn't call this an altered bat- not that it makes any difference under high school rules.

Bats that do not meet spec can fall into three different catagories:

1) Illegal Bat: One that is otherwise legal, but is damaged. The R/T in the first post would fall under this catagory, if any.

2) Altered Bat: One whose physical structure has been purposely altered- shaved, rolled, etc.

3) Non-Approved Bat: One that does not carry the ASA certification mark or that appears on the non-approved bat list.

Under high school rules, all three types of bat are treated the same way. If discovered before the game, the bat is removed without further penalty. If discovered during the game (being used by a batter), the batter is out. The team is issued a warning and the next player on that team to use any of these three types of bats out and restricted to the dugout.

ASA rules are different. There are different penalties for the different types of bats.

For an illegal bat, the batter is called out. For an altered or non-approved bat, the batter is called out and ejected from the game.
Bretman, are umpires suppose to throw bats out if they feel a chip or see excessive cracking? I know ASA use to use the cards to slide over the bats to confirm roundness and correct width, but my understanding if a scratch is felt or a chip is detected the bat is not be used during that game? If so, how does a bat avoid excessive scratches or chips when most fields contain some sort of rock's on the surface and all bats get dropped or even thrown during a game after the swing?
 
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Rule 1-5-1c pretty much covers it. DD had an '04 Rocket Tech that also had the infamous "flat spots" (I still have it). She got busted at an ASA tournament at 16u. The "donut check" failed - wouldn't go smoothly over the barrel. Bat was confiscated and returned at the end of the tournament. No big deal...
 
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Sorry Lady Knights, but I have to strongly disagree on this. You have to give the officials some discretion to ensure the rules and their intent are met with integrity. It makes all the sense in the world that we wouldn't want to allow girls to use flat surface bats ... i.e., "clubs". More surface hitting the ball is going gives the batter more of a chance to make solid contact, or for the ball to be hit with more force. And how do you know that you have never seen anyone get hurt with a dented bat ... do you go and check them out after they get hurt? What if it's your DD who gets hurt?
 
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When it comes to "Umpire Discretion" determining if a bat has a dent or not is just plain assanign!! If they have no legitimate way of measuring it or proving its hazard then they should just leave it alone.

What effect does a dent have in a bat anyway (as long as it rings)?? Never seen anyone hurt or gain anything with a dented bat!! Just plain and simply ridiculous. Some umpires get one thing stuck in there mind and that is all they're looking for and then overlook the most obvious stuff, including interpretation of rules.

An actual dent- a spot where the metal has formed a crease- means that the material in that area has exceded it's elastic limit (ie: there is a permanent deformation).

That means that the bat is weakened in that area and is one step closer to catastrophic failure. The intent of this rule is to reduce the risk of a bat breaking on contact, possibly sending broken pieces toward a player.
 
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Bretman, are umpires suppose to throw bats out if they feel a chip or see excessive cracking? I know ASA use to use the cards to slide over the bats to confirm roundness and correct width, but my understanding if a scratch is felt or a chip is detected the bat is not be used during that game? If so, how does a bat avoid excessive scratches or chips when most fields contain some sort of rock's on the surface and all bats get dropped or even thrown during a game after the swing?

If it's a chip or crack in the actual body of the bat, it may very well not be allowed.

If it's in the paint, that would probably be the result of normal use and be okay.

The problem is that each cosmetic flaw is open to the judgment and interpretation of the individual umpire looking at it. One man's cracked bat might be another man's minor paint scratch.

Personally, if something looks like cosmetic damage to the paint or coating, I'll probably let it slide. I believe it is unreasonable to expect bats not to get scratched or dinged up a bit through normal game play.
 
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Nope. Not that one - it became the cage bat. She has 2 of them, and #2 got about a year of use before she went off to college.

Had that been her only bat, I would have probably got her an '05 version and still relegated the '04 dented one to the cages.
 
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I'm sorry, but if it rings then it is not flat enough to be considered a "club". There is very little tolerance with that ring gage, so if it rings then the dent is so miniscule that it's just plain "nit picking!!" The ring gage should be the deciding factor, if it rings then it should be legal. Makes the umpires job so much easier and less of a chance for open interpretation.

Every year they try to make the rules easier for the umpires to interpret and take the "guessing" out of their hands. In my opinion, the ring gage is just that.
 
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can a dented bat give more pop or what i would think it would be disadvantage for batter
 
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I agree Shayne. Why have it if your not going use it. (Ring gage) There has to be a standard, not just "Umps judgment".

A small flat spot will not give the hitter an advantage in any way in my opinion. A big dent like they hit a pole with it, then maybe we have a problem.
 

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