Congrats on the big W coaches !!!

[coachjwb]

Seems to be some "alternative facts" at least ... I'd be curious to hear exactly how much these 3 players played if at all. Did they start or sub any games in the field and in the batting order, only pinch run, or not play at all? You don't have to answer me obviously, but my earlier opinion was prefaced by "if true" ...

 

[coachtomv]

Not jumping on any band wagon here, because you never know the true story and it probably should not have been aired here.

I will say that If true, I'd look for another team possibly, or if I were the coach I'd be helping you along your way.

Every team is different, different goals, player dynamics, etc etc, but If I roster a player then they play in pool play. I have always batted all players where possible and had a defined role if not, bench is not a role. Of course you have to know what players to roster so that it is less of a concern. As they get older there may be less of the "everyone plays every game" vs your defined role. Like pitchers catchers sit when not playing, utilizing dp/flex, having a sub to be flexible for running for pitcher/catcher and injuries, etc. At 10u I'd be more concerned about developing players first, especially in scrimmages, pool play, but still play to win the tournament on Sunday. If a player cannot get on the field consistently, then its probably not a good fit for that player one way or another.

We had a 10u charity team play at RAW last weekend. We had 10 players, pitched 6 pitchers, 4 catchers, batted all except final game(kept a sub who ran for pitcher and scored on multiple stolen bases), and were able to win the tournament and all had a great experience contributing to the wins. If a team that does not practice, allows all to play without tryouts, can have that kind of experience, there is no excuse for a full time team to not do that. Especially a well established organization that may draw more talent, so that each girl is able to contribute. Hell, our first two tournaments at 13u a few years back had 17 and 15 players, everyone batted as much as rules allowed, and very few sat much and we won both those tournaments beating 2 of the best teams at that age at the time in very close championship games. We do play the best 9-10 in championship games, but wide open up to that point and still bat to the upper limit of rules and try and get all players involved with a clear role.

Saw same issue in HS last year where the entire bench was not used effectively, which ultimately lead to several players quitting the game the follow year as well.

Its not about "everyone gets a trophy", you can coach to win and still have the complete team involved in your process.

My two cents.

 

[3ballbratz]

Not jumping on any band wagon here, because you never know the true story and it probably should not have been aired here.

I will say that If true, I'd look for another team possibly, or if I were the coach I'd be helping you along your way.

Every team is different, different goals, player dynamics, etc etc, but If I roster a player then they play in pool play. I have always batted all players where possible and had a defined role if not, bench is not a role. Of course you have to know what players to roster so that it is less of a concern. As they get older there may be less of the "everyone plays every game" vs your defined role. Like pitchers catchers sit when not playing, utilizing dp/flex, having a sub to be flexible for running for pitcher/catcher and injuries, etc. At 10u I'd be more concerned about developing players first, especially in scrimmages, pool play, but still play to win the tournament on Sunday. If a player cannot get on the field consistently, then its probably not a good fit for that player one way or another.

We had a 10u charity team play at RAW last weekend. We had 10 players, pitched 6 pitchers, 4 catchers, batted all except final game(kept a sub who ran for pitcher and scored on multiple stolen bases), and were able to win the tournament and all had a great experience contributing to the wins. If a team that does not practice, allows all to play without tryouts, can have that kind of experience, there is no excuse for a full time team to not do that. Especially a well established organization that may draw more talent, so that each girl is able to contribute. Hell, our first two tournaments at 13u a few years back had 17 and 15 players, everyone batted as much as rules allowed, and very few sat much and we won both those tournaments beating 2 of the best teams at that age at the time in very close championship games. We do play the best 9-10 in championship games, but wide open up to that point and still bat to the upper limit of rules and try and get all players involved with a clear role.

Saw same issue in HS last year where the entire bench was not used effectively, which ultimately lead to several players quitting the game the follow year as well.

Its not about "everyone gets a trophy", you can coach to win and still have the complete team involved in your process.

My two cents.

Thanks Tom, your post is my point without my frustration added to the context.The point of my post was to wake coaches up and not to bash anyone believe it or not. Lol. Everyone involved with this team are exceptional people and I firmly believe that. I just felt that poor decisions were made in the heat of competition. This is 10u softball !There is no Hall of fame. The outcome of those games would not have been any different had my daughter played. That team is so talented Hellen Keller could coach them to a victory. I have no problem sitting in bracket play. But pool play is their chance to make the roster for bracket play. And my DD knows that and accepts that. I was going to sit quietly and move on which I would've normally done. Those that know me know I'm a very nice guy which can be taken as a weakness, but there are 4 things in life I will never tolerate people messing with #1 my family #2 my job #3 my time and #4 my money. Like it or not travel ball includes all four of those things. A good coach appreciates those sacrifices and manages their teams accordingly. Coaches quit wasting families time if you have no intentions on playing them. There are a million teams these days.

 

[hammerhead20]

Not sure how or why that would happen. The 3rd game in pool play was just a scrimmage and didn't count toward seeding, which made little sense, but should have allowed everyone playing time and multiple pitchers to pitch. As far as #1's pitching the whole tournament, just depends on pitch count i guess. The girls I saw were pretty efficient. 50-60 max, if that. The #1 Seeds all had pretty easy openers in bracket play so I doubt any of their #1's threw, but I could be wrong.

Side note on the tournament itself. Some of the best pitching and teams in the mid-west at a facility I hope I never have to set foot in. That tournament field at a decent facility would have been even more fun. Half our team left Saturday with headaches and severe congestion which cleared up an hour after getting out of that place. I hate to put down any place that helps support girls softball, but it can't be healthy for those who play there regularly. Also, the house rules there are just terrible and need to be adjusted. Saw several kids hit would be bombs outside, or at any other dome for that matter, that are automatic outs there. A lazy pop up off the net is one thing. An obvious shot should at least be just a foul ball. Teams advancing in bracket play on who got to 3rd more and coin flips is just garbage. These girls want to win or lose legitimately. An international tiebreaker is not going to add hours on to the day. Also a place that has hosted that many tournaments should know how to put together a bracket. 1st and 2nd seeds from the same Pool should not be potentially meeting in a semifinal.

As far as the pitching goes, Both Laser teams, Firestix and Madness had girls that could absolutely bring it and had great control. I am sure there were more that I didn't see. Anxious to see everyone again outside.

 

[SonicMojo]

As far as the pitching goes, Both Laser teams, Firestix and Madness had girls that could absolutely bring it and had great control. I am sure there were more that I didn't see. Anxious to see everyone again outside.

Were any illegal pitches called this weekend?

 

[3ballbratz]

Not sure how or why that would happen. The 3rd game in pool play was just a scrimmage and didn't count toward seeding, which made little sense, but should have allowed everyone playing time and multiple pitchers to pitch. As far as #1's pitching the whole tournament, just depends on pitch count i guess. The girls I saw were pretty efficient. 50-60 max, if that. The #1 Seeds all had pretty easy openers in bracket play so I doubt any of their #1's threw, but I could be wrong.

Side note on the tournament itself. Some of the best pitching and teams in the mid-west at a facility I hope I never have to set foot in. That tournament field at a decent facility would have been even more fun. Half our team left Saturday with headaches and severe congestion which cleared up an hour after getting out of that place. I hate to put down any place that helps support girls softball, but it can't be healthy for those who play there regularly. Also, the house rules there are just terrible and need to be adjusted. Saw several kids hit would be bombs outside, or at any other dome for that matter, that are automatic outs there. A lazy pop up off the net is one thing. An obvious shot should at least be just a foul ball. Teams advancing in bracket play on who got to 3rd more and coin flips is just garbage. These girls want to win or lose legitimately. An international tiebreaker is not going to add hours on to the day. Also a place that has hosted that many tournaments should know how to put together a bracket. 1st and 2nd seeds from the same Pool should not be potentially meeting in a semifinal.

As far as the pitching goes, Both Laser teams, Firestix and Madness had girls that could absolutely bring it and had great control. I am sure there were more that I didn't see. Anxious to see everyone again outside.

Even more of a reason this tourney should be used as team building event not a chest pumping event which added to my frustration. Anyone who has ever played Spano knows the best team doesn't always win because of these restrictions. I happen to really like playing there despite all the different rules and sinus headaches. Lol. It changes it up it's something different for the girls. There can be alot of energy in there.

 

[Daddy Gurl]

It's softball and it's winter time. Put the ball into play and make the other team play defense. The RULES are not going to change now after 17+ yrs doing this. You guys knew coming into the Spano the rules plus the smell. Don't like it stay home! As far as Lasers parents mad about playing time, like coach said above its travel ball not rec ball put time in through out the week. No player is guaranteed nothing. I love me some 10 under DRAMA.

 

[Centerville_FP]

Holy crap that is a lot of $$...! I think I would do what I did with my older girls and have the organization waive the fees and provide transportation, lodging and food.

 

[3ballbratz]

Holy crap that is a lot of $$...! I think I would do what I did with my older girls and have the organization waive the fees and provide transportation, lodging and food.

I get your point

 

[Bell-n-Rose]

What 3ballbratz isn't telling you is we have had AWESOME fundraisers to help offset the costs. We've actually had one family pay almost their entire fee with our hog raffle. We switched organizations so as these girls get older they can have scholarship opportunities so we were unable to bring ANY of our funds with us from our our previous team. The one player that he's talking about that is a bench player worked HER tail off this winter and performed awesome and did DID bat Sunday AND earned the game ball! We still had nine because we had an injury. The other team member who he says literally never plays was a Flex in the first game for my dd, yes on Sunday. And that same member played in two of the three games on Saturday, fielding and hitting. We aren't monsters. Our team works HARD! It is expected that everyone works hard. Coaches are not stupid, practice shows. Let's move on.

 

[24GahannaLadyLions7]

Let's not kid ourselves, we all know by now who this team is talking about. I have a daughter (my middle) on this team, she is my social bug, doesn't have the most athletic ability, not fast, not the best arm, doesn't swing all the way thru the ball most of the time, but has great fundamentals, a fantastic attitude, and tons of heart. She is one of those girls who may not be in that Sunday 9 when it counts. She loves this team, as does the OP daughter... i have been a former assistant coach with that Stingray04 team for a few years until this year when my oldest moved organizations. My opinion is my opinion and not every single coach has to have the same philosophy. I think it's wrong not to bat roster bat in pool play, you have to give those girls who are putting the work, the time, the practices, a chance to prove themselves to be in that Sunday Bracket 9. They already are getting almost half the reps as your starters. In 10U you are playing 4 innings max in a 70-75 minute game. That 10,11 girl may only get 1 at bat, compared to the top of the lineup who is getting 2 at bats. Put that into 4 gg and now you are looking at 8 at bats to 4 that the 10,11 girl is getting. Sunday play your best 9 and try to get the other girls a pinch hit when u can. If you are a really good team as our Stingray team had in 10U, that first bracket game you could prolly roster and be good. Never did we once think about not batting everyone in pool play, but again that was OUR philosophy. We felt that if they were good enough to make our team, we were committed to playing, developing them as much we could, but when Sunday came around we played the best 9 and always made sure to get our bench players an at bat or in the field. But my philosophy may be different than other coaches philosophy.

 

[Stedman00]

don't know any of the teams or players on this thread. But I can state that if someone is this wound up about 10u games in the winter, you're gonna have global thermo nuclear war type melt down in about 5 years when she gets to high school ball.

 

[hammerhead20]

Just making some suggestions. Don't have to be so defensive. It was my first time there and I hope to not go back despite the competition. It is called adjusting to the times. Kids are getting bigger, stronger and are training harder. These 10 year olds aren't the 10 year olds from 17 years ago. They shouldn't be punished for smashing balls, especially off those pitchers. Also, the health should be a concern. The smell is, I'm guessing mold combined with whatever chemical you treat the dirt with. The vents never went on until the end of the day. Again if you have been doing this for 17 years you should be able to create a proper bracket and make some minor adjustments for the betterment of the tournament and the girls who play in it. There are a ton of new facilities popping up all over the Midwest. If you don't adjust, people will stop coming. If your content with just a local tournament, then by all means, keep doing what your doing. I'm sure the Ice and Laser teams will always be there. If you want high level competition coming from all over, the " we have been doing this for 17 years and aren't changing" line will probably not help the cause.

 

[mike_dyer]

One of my kid's coaches batted 9 in a fall showcase. Then when she got up for her 1st at bat he called time and subbed for her after she got in the box.

You might be wondering "Now why would a coach do that???"

He did it because he was a crotchity wrinkled up man baby who never got told "no" and he was mad at her for going to her homecoming dance the day before. His own kid and his assistants' kid went to theirs the same day though.

That was the last game she played for that guy.

 

[24GahannaLadyLions7]

Were any illegal pitches called this weekend?

My youngest daughter who has 2009 birthday got called for 2 illegal pitches along with a Michigan Warriors06 pitcher who had 1... lol

 

[3ballbratz]

My youngest daughter who has 2009 birthday got called for 2 illegal pitches along with a Michigan Warriors06 pitcher who had 1... lol

Highlight of my weekend watching this kid compete ! And she's 7. Played every pool play game. Great job coaches being committed to developing a girls talent at such a young age.

 

[Bell-n-Rose]

Were any illegal pitches called this weekend?

My dd had one in championship game, but they didn't call the wv pitcher for her back foot not touching the rubber before the start of the pitch.

 

[Bat Dad]

I will preface by saying that I know some of the parents on this thread and coaches so I'm going to try to play it down the middle and talk about this in a philosophical sense.

Question #1 - A poster who was talking about varying coaching philosophies is somebody I respect immensely. And as for say a philosophy that you play your top nine, all the time, regardless of who you play, regardless of whether it's pool play or otherwise - is this something that is commonplace? Is this something that exists primarily at certain age levels?

Question #2 Is it incumbent upon any coach of younger players to develop them along with their assistants or is it the job of the kids on their own and through their parents who are spending hard earned money - as I'm guessing most of us do - to develop them through private lessons?

Question #3 - So if #2 is true it implies that coaches are not responsible to work with girls on an individual level to mentor them to become better players.

.... I could go on all day because I love peeling back the onion on things like this but I will leave it with one last comment/question

Question #4 - Has 10u become far too competitive (cutthroat)? It is true that in some cases, the number of runs scored and/or margin of victory does count into the eventual seeding in bracket play correct? So going back to philosophy, if it's a philosophy where a coach is going to go after that number one seed for every single tournament Winter spring summer or fall, or is it better to have a philosophy where pool play will be used to develop players that may not see as much playing time as others? Has it always been this way if this is the way it is or have times changed? And what does 12u look like in comparison? Or Showcases? (unless for Showcases you only dress 9)

I do not post a lot but, in this thread I am seeing lots of posters with so much wisdom who I have come to respect over the years and really value their insight.

Bat Dad

 

[3ballbratz]

I will preface by saying that I know some of the parents on this thread and coaches so I'm going to try to play it down the middle and talk about this in a philosophical sense.

Question #1 - A poster who was talking about varying coaching philosophies is somebody I respect immensely. And as for say a philosophy that you play your top nine, all the time, regardless of who you play, regardless of whether it's pool play or otherwise - is this something that is commonplace? Is this something that exists primarily at certain age levels?

Question #2 Is it incumbent upon any coach of younger players to develop them along with their assistants or is it the job of the kids on their own and through their parents who are spending hard earned money - as I'm guessing most of us do - to develop them through private lessons?

Question #3 - So if #2 is true it implies that coaches are not responsible to work with girls on an individual level to mentor them to become better players.

.... I could go on all day because I love peeling back the onion on things like this but I will leave it with one last comment/question

Question #4 - Has 10u become far too competitive (cutthroat)? It is true that in some cases, the number of runs scored and/or margin of victory does count into the eventual seeding in bracket play correct? So going back to philosophy, if it's a philosophy where a coach is going to go after that number one seed for every single tournament Winter spring summer or fall, or is it better to have a philosophy where pool play will be used to develop players that may not see as much playing time as others? Has it always been this way if this is the way it is or have times changed? And what does 12u look like in comparison? Or Showcases? (unless for Showcases you only dress 9)

I do not post a lot but, in this thread I am seeing lots of posters with so much wisdom who I have come to respect over the years and really value their insight.

Bat Dad

Great post Bat Dad, this thread may start rolling in the right direction now.

 

[yossarian]

We all have opinions about the pool play question and what's important at 10U. But I think this thread underscores the importance of both coaches and parents asking the right questions and setting clear expectations ahead of joining a team.

Everyone I know whether parent or coach, myself included, got better at that after a year or two. Not to diminish the situation you're in because I feel for you, but, this too will pass and things will feel a lot less crazy. Good luck to you and your daughter. The high road will pay off.