Fastpitch Scorekeeping w iScore baseball

[SoCal_Dad]

#5 is the situation I've seen mishandled on the NCAA games - the second pitcher benefitting from errors that occurred before they entered.

To handle runs and ER's correctly, the team totals have to be tracked separate from the pitchers. Runners put on base for ITB shouldn't be charged against the pitcher - they're an unearned run for the team. In cases like #5, any runs that score after what should have been the 3rd out of the inning are unearned for the team, but they would be earned for the second pitcher.

 

[softball15]

I think the earned runs are correct in no. 1 scenario. P1 wouldn't be charged with an earned run when her batter reached on an error, and then was subsequently put out on a FC. Once that runner is put out, P1's responsibility for runners is over. I understand your reasoning, but B3 that reached on a FC (and later scores) really has nothing to do with P1.
I have a question on how to score this with GC: lead off batter slaps a ball down first base line and gets called out when the ball hits her when she is out of the box. 2 unassisted?

 

[fastpitchdad]

#5 is the situation I've seen mishandled on the NCAA games - the second pitcher benefitting from errors that occurred before they entered.

To handle runs and ER's correctly, the team totals have to be tracked separate from the pitchers. Runners put on base for ITB shouldn't be charged against the pitcher - they're an unearned run for the team. In cases like #5, any runs that score after what should have been the 3rd out of the inning are unearned for the team, but they would be earned for the second pitcher.

The result i posted on the scenarios, was solely by the "iScore" program (I was worried i may have introduced a typo trying to do this on one device). so it looks like for #2-6 you had similar view. I want to think about #1 some more (and will post back on it later)


#7. ITB. (new)
I can't recall ever testing the ITB scenario on ERA.. .. so i entered a simple test , and the program handled it correctly.
going to ITB. score 0 to 0. each team used only 1 pitcher . Top of ITB. B1 triples- (runner from second scores) - K, K,K. half inning over. score board changes to 1-0, but no run added to pitcher "r or "er" stat for that half inning. interesting.

 

[fastpitchdad]

I think the earned runs are correct in no. 1 scenario. P1 wouldn't be charged with an earned run when her batter reached on an error, and then was subsequently put out on a FC. Once that runner is put out, P1's responsibility for runners is over. I understand your reasoning, but B3 that reached on a FC (and later scores) really has nothing to do with P1.

I have a question on how to score this with GC: lead off batter slaps a ball down first base line and gets called out when the ball hits her when she is out of the box. 2 unassisted?

In scenario 1, SoCal suggested that P! be charged with an Unearned run (not an earned run). think all agree unearned as initially reached on error. I do think there is something in the rules about when runners swap out on a fielders choice … will look it up..

I do not use GC anymore. but on iscore, it is simple two taps assuming no one else is on base... "Out > out of box" and the program credits the catcher with the PO.

 

[fastpitchdad]

RE: scenario 1..

I think the program "missed it"

here is the MLB rule 10.16 EARNED RUNS AND RUNS ALLOWED

ORB 10.16 (g) When pitchers are changed during an inning, the official scorer shall not charge the relief pitcher with any run (earned or unearned) scored by a runner who was on base at the time such relief pitcher entered the game, nor for runs scored by any runner who reaches base on a fielder's choice that puts out a runner left on base by any preceding pitcher.

bold emphasis added..

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I think the earned runs are correct in no. 1 scenario. P1 wouldn't be charged with an earned run when her batter reached on an error, and then was subsequently put out on a FC. Once that runner is put out, P1's responsibility for runners is over. I understand your reasoning, but B3 that reached on a FC (and later scores) really has nothing to do with P1.

Scoring rules protect a pitcher when a fielder chooses to retire a runner that would have less effect on their stats than the B-R. Here are the NCAA softball rules.

14.24.1 ... Note: A batter who gets on base as a result of a fielder’s choice can score an earned run only if the base runner that was out as a result of the fielder’s choice was a potential earned run.

14.26.1 A relief pitcher is charged with every run that scores when the batter has reached base while she was pitching. Exception: If a batter reaches base on a fielder’s choice that puts out an inherited base runner and the batter subsequently scores, the run is charged to the previous pitcher, not the relief pitcher.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

... I have a question on how to score this with GC: lead off batter slaps a ball down first base line and gets called out when the ball hits her when she is out of the box. 2 unassisted?

...
I do not use GC anymore. but on iscore, it is simple two taps assuming no one else is on base... "Out > out of box" and the program credits the catcher with the PO.

I don't know the available options, but interference w/ fair batted ball would be the correct scoring. Out of box should be for infractions by batter (e.g. has a foot outside the box when the bat makes contact with the ball).

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The result i posted on the scenarios, was solely by the "iScore" program (I was worried i may have introduced a typo trying to do this on one device). so it looks like for #2-6 you had similar view. I want to think about #1 some more (and will post back on it later)

#7. ITB. (new)
I can't recall ever testing the ITB scenario on ERA.. .. so i entered a simple test , and the program handled it correctly.
going to ITB. score 0 to 0. each team used only 1 pitcher . Top of ITB. B1 triples- (runner from second scores) - K, K,K. half inning over. score board changes to 1-0, but no run added to pitcher "r or "er" stat for that half inning. interesting.

I'm impressed by how well iScore handled cases 2-7. Have you tried #1 again to make sure the program recognized the FC? I have 2 more cases to possibly see why it handled #6, but not #1.

#1
- B1 reaches on error
- B2 strikes out
- P2 relieves P1 as pitcher
- B3 reaches on FC (R1 out 6-4)
- B4 hits 2-run HR
- B5 grounds out 4-3

#6
- B1 singles
- P2 replaces P1
- B2 reaches on FC (R1 out 6-4)
- B3 homers
- (B4 K, B5 K)

#8
- B1 singles
- B2 strikes out
- P2 relieves P1 as pitcher
- B3 reaches on FC (R1 out 6-4)
- B4 hits 2-run HR
- B5 grounds out 4-3

#9
- B1 reaches on error
- P2 replaces P1
- B2 reaches on FC (R1 out 6-4)
- B3 homers
- (B4 K, B5 K)

 

[fastpitchdad]

I don't know the available options, but interference w/ fair batted ball would be the correct scoring. Out of box should be for infractions by batter (e.g. has a foot outside the box when the bat makes contact with the ball).

I miss understand from your description.... Iscore has "out> interference" and "out > hit by ball" options.. Both will credit the catcher w PO - which I thought was the crux of your question. ( not seeing the play .. Miss understood the description)

 

[fastpitchdad]

@SoCal..The NCAA softball rules 14 .24.1 and 14.26.1 and ORB 10.16. (g) are aligned in my reading and interpretation. Agree?

 

[fastpitchdad]

For the last two new scenerios.. IScore gives..
Scenario 8 - p1 1 earned run, p2 1 earned run.
Scenario 9 -p1 0 runs, p2 earned runs

What did you expect?


(ps.. I am not a programmer nor part of the iscore company... And As I said intially, I understand ERA can be tricky to effectively "recreate the inning W/o error" and in in general have found iscore to do pretty well. I only override the programs determination if very obvious.That said, scenario 1 seems to be a 'bug'. Be curious what you think in scenario 8 and 9)

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I miss understand from your description.... Iscore has "out> interference" and "out > hit by ball" options.. Both will credit the catcher w PO - which I thought was the crux of your question. ( not seeing the play .. Miss understood the description)

"out > hit by ball" would be the most appropriate choice then. Interference covers a lot of different situations.

It was softball15's description and question. It could be recorded as a play like they suggested (i.e. 2U) and the stats would be correct, but that wouldn't accurately describe what happened. Scorekeepers should strive to do both.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

@SoCal..The NCAA softball rules 14 .24.1 and 14.26.1 and ORB 10.16. (g) are aligned in my reading and interpretation. Agree?

I didn't have an issue with your response. Some people don't like baseball rule citations, so I provided the softball rule and expanded on it to show softball was consistent in how it handled FC.

I agree 14.26.1 and OBR 10.16(g) are aligned. However, I can't find an OBR equivalent for 14.24.1 - seems like it would be under 10.16(b).

 

[fastpitchdad]

I didn't have an issue with your response. Some people don't like baseball rule citations, so I provided the softball rule and expanded on it to show softball was consistent in how it handled FC.

I agree 14.26.1 and OBR 10.16(g) are aligned. However, I can't find an OBR equivalent for 14.24.1 - seems like it would be under 10.16(b).

Fortunately in my experience I have found iScore handles both baseball and fastpitch softball equally well. The difference in games and rules have to date, not caused me to have a different app for each sport. In fact the developers have said The original version of iscore had an eye to softball as it included DP/Flex.. And thought one app could cover both. But should a day come that one app can't do both. They have said they would consider separate apps.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

For the last two new scenerios.. IScore gives..
Scenario 8 - p1 1 earned run, p2 1 earned run.
Scenario 9 -p1 0 runs, p2 earned runs

What did you expect?

(ps.. I am not a programmer nor part of the iscore company... And As I said intially, I understand ERA can be tricky to effectively "recreate the inning W/o error" and in in general have found iscore to do pretty well. I only override the programs determination if very obvious.That said, scenario 1 seems to be a 'bug'. Be curious what you think in scenario 8 and 9)

#8 is correct. It shows the strike out before the pitching change wasn't a factor.

#9 should be P1 1 unearned run and P2 1 ER. The results of #1 and #9 indicate the issue is with the FC when the retired runner ROE with a previous pitcher. iScore handles both individually (#4 / #6 & #8), but not together (#1 and #9).

My background is software development, so I'm well versed in creating test cases. You should submit a bug report to iScore for #9 with #4 and #6.

 

[fastpitchdad]

i did send a bug report on that when i posted the result of scenario 1 - obviously missing the FC relationship in conjunction with a pitching change. It was nice however to run the other scenarios to build confidence the miss was isoloated not completely off.
(the developers are pretty responsive and i hope will fix in next release only helps to improve the product)

i think that closes the loop on the earned/unearned ERA questions ..

.. So now back to our regularly scheduled programming ….if users have questions or want to discuss or learn how to better learn/leverage the iScore baseball/softball for fast pitch...

 

[fastpitchdad]

iscore baseball's new iOS release corrected a few unusual ERA scenarios based on this feedback... thanks