High school / instructor question

Discussion in 'General Softball Discussions' started by BouldersDad, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. BouldersDad

    BouldersDad Member

    I would like to ask a question from people
    A whole lot smarter than me. Can a varsity hs coach give paid hitting lessons to his high school players When they are not in hs season or is this a violation of ohsaa rules for him to do any instruction of any kind from kids in his hs district after the hs season is finished
  2. Stedman00

    Stedman00 Active Member

    Found below in this link http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Sports/Softball/sbmanual.pdf

    Page 8. it doesn't specifically address payment besides "affordable alternative"

    General Sports Regulation 8.2.1 – The “Individual Instruction” Regulation This addition of this regulation permits school coaches the opportunity to provide individual skill instruction outside the season of play AND outside the June 1 – July 31 period that was the previous limitation. It is written with the intent of providing SKILL INSTRUCTION to individuals and is not intended – nor written – to permit any addition to the “team days” (10) permitted during June and July. Additionally, it is intended to provide an affordable alternative to ‘private’ instructors This regulation clearly limits the number of individuals (regardless of age or gender) present while the instruction is taking place to FOUR. This regulation was first proposed by the Ohio High School Basketball Coaches Association and the organization lobbied long and hard for its acceptance. ALL coaches, whether paid OR volunteer, must follow the guidelines established within this regulation. It is built upon the assumption that ANY individual that works with individuals in a school has a Pupil Activity Coaching Permit and falls under these guidelines. Special attention should be given to the Ohio Ethics Law as it relates to school individuals using school facilities outside the normal work environment. (See your school administration on the Ohio Ethics Law and how it relates to you as a coach). You can view the online presentation of this regulation at: http://ohsaa.articulate-online.com/4244037503 Comments Regarding General Sports Regulation 8.2.1: “This regulation was originally proposed by several different coaches’ associations with the ultimate goal of permitting “our” coaches the same opportunity that ‘private instructors’ currently have had. We all recognize the ‘explosion’ of private trainers – from hitting instructors to pitching coaches. Many of them are excellent, many more of them are not and do not possess any of the credentials required of school coaches. The success of this radical departure that now permits ‘our’ coaches to provide the same opportunities to student-athletes rests squarely in the hands of coaches. It is not designed, nor written as such, to provide more team coaching opportunities out of season and in no way designed to be a ‘team workout’ regulation outside the season. It is clearly written to allow coaches to give hitting instruction, fielding instruction or pitching instruction – INDIVIDUAL SKILL instruction – outside the season. I URGE you to act professionally and make this work for the benefit of all.

    Does this answer your question?
  3. Xrayaries

    Xrayaries Active Member

    It is allowed
  4. Skeeter

    Skeeter Member

    I don't think you can have your HS players pay for instruction if you are the HS coach. Didn't this happen a few years back with a HS coach?
  5. mamoneyoh

    mamoneyoh Member

    It did happen a few years ago and the coach resigned because of the allegations. He was charging his players for pitching lessons.
  6. Heavy Hitter

    Heavy Hitter Active Member

    I have known coaches to give lessons in the past, too both their on own players as well as those out side their program. I really don't see the issue as long as they are not forcing player to take lessons from them.
  7. Rex Tiller

    Rex Tiller New Member

    I believe many coaches circumvent the rules because who actually knows what is being done in a gym during the off season
  8. RedStormDad

    RedStormDad New Member

    If your the HS coach why would you charge your own players anyway? Not saying the original poster is doing this, just saying in general. I mean if your the girls coach then coach them, help them, mentor them, and make sure your doing everything you ( and your assistant) can do to make them better and love the game. Forget about the $ cuz everyone knows you don't make bank as a HS softball coach. IMO you should NEVER charge your own players for hitting, catching, fielding or any other kind of lesson.
    DanMaz and wow like this.
  9. wow

    wow Active Member

    Never seen a HS coach charge $ for instruction. Tacky at best
  10. Skeeter

    Skeeter Member

    Could be that they just need to know the rules if they are currently a hitting instructor but not currently a HS Varsity coach but might want to become one in the future what OHSAA rules do they need to follow.
  11. BouldersDad

    BouldersDad Member

    Not a Hs coach merely asking a question of people that know more than i do. Thanks for the responses.
  12. manitoudan

    manitoudan Active Member

    You should pare your audience down to less than everyone .........JK you Tim !
  13. BouldersDad

    BouldersDad Member

    Your probably right Dan
  14. tjsmize3

    tjsmize3 Active Member

    Obviously problem is no way to regulate "forcing players" to take lessons from the coach. Over time it would be easy to see how the unwritten rule could become "if you take lessons from me, you get more playing time from me." Most reputable coaches would never cross that line, but with some...
  15. Heavy Hitter

    Heavy Hitter Active Member

    The coaches I know are very reputable and no one would ever question their integrity.

    I know travel ball coaches that give lesson. So I guess using your argument, those coaches are not very reputable if kids from their team come to them for lessons?
  16. tjsmize3

    tjsmize3 Active Member

    Lol... I think my statement that most reputable coaches would never cross that line defines my personal stance on that issue for 99% of the other readers, just maybe not for you. It does not take a genius to see that a "less reputable" coach (travel or HS) could be very tempted to utilize their position of power to make a kid feel compelled to take paid lessons from them which is probably why most don't do it. If you can't see that because every coach you know is reputable then that's fine I guess. Glenn McCoy is a great hitting instructor and was a great HS coach at Copley. Some of his kids took lessons from him and he kept it all above board. Yet, just because Glenn did things the right way doesn't mean they all do. Again, I think most people understand that. Lastly, I did not make an "argument" I made a statement. I was not supporting any position one way or another. But, just to set the record straight... my STATEMENT by no reasonable stretch of the imagination supports that a coach giving lessons (be it travel or HS) is not reputable because their players take lessons from them.
  17. grandpa

    grandpa New Member

    The following is from the Ohio Educator Code of Conduct:

    7. Accepting Compensation for Self Promotion or Personal Gain
    Educators shall ensure that school property, public funds or fees paid by students or the community are not used for personal gain. Educators shall not make decisions based upon gifts, gratuities, favors or the socioeconomic status of parents, family members, community members or businesses.
    An educator is entrusted with public funds and school property in the course of performing job duties and maintains a high level of honesty, accuracy and accountability to ensure that institutional privileges are not used for personal gain. An educator maintains integrity with students, colleagues, parents, families, community or businesses when accepting gifts, gratuities or favors. To avoid bias or prejudice, an educator needs to ensure that decisions made about students or school policy are not negatively influenced by the socioeconomic status of parents, family members, community members or businesses.
    Conduct unbecoming includes, but is not limited to, the following actions:
    a) Soliciting students or parents of students to purchase equipment, supplies, or services or to participate in activities that financially benefit the educator without notifying the superintendent or designee and/or not in accordance with local board policy.
    d) Coaching and/or promoting athletic or artistic camps, offseason leagues, etc. in one’s district for profit without notifying the superintendent or designee and/or not in accordance with local board policy.

    If the coach is a teacher, they may be violating the code of conduct and/or school policy. Most schools have a policy against accepting money from someone you teach or coach. The school policy would also apply if you were a coach but not a teacher. I am not sure if the educator code of conduct applies to someone who is not a teacher. It may, because you have to get a Pupil Validation Certificate to coach at a school in Ohio. That is issued by the Ohio Department of Education.
    mamoneyoh likes this.
  18. CoachB25

    CoachB25 Member

    Tim, I give lessons and charge. I have for a couple of years now. I get the amazing fee of $15 and it is for 45 minutes now. In the summer, it is for 30 minutes. As an FYI, I was ordered by our AD to do so. In fact, he asked our state association rules person for clarification and was told that we might be in violation if we did not charge. What we do is open it up to all players but there was a time frame to sign up. No one has to take any lessons from me. In fact, I am glad that a couple do not. I can not have more than 2 in any time slot and am limited to 6 in any evening. (I don't know where that came from but I don't care. I don't want to do many lessons anyway.) For the ones who think I am repugnant for doing this, why am I not supposed to be compensated for 30+ years of experience and my time? Why am I repugnant when I am saving these families a huge amount of money from what area cages charge? Right now, the going area rate is $50 per half hour.

    Tim, as you might recall, I am not from Ohio and so take this post for what it is worth.


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