How many World Series and Nationals do we need?

Discussion in 'General Softball Discussions' started by Rerun, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Rerun

    Rerun Super Moderator Staff Member

    Back in the day all the best Teams primary goal was to qualify for the ASA Gold National. It’s was great seeing all the great teams in the nation Playing at one location. Now go forward in the future and look at what we have Today. No real clear who’s the best. It’s more like, hey we won the World Series or the National. What does that really mean today? It means your team and 50+ other teams won a National or a World Series someplace.

    So if you added all the Nationals and World Series together just how many would be held each year? Way to many if you ask me.
    HITTER23 and daboss like this.
  2. DanMaz

    DanMaz Super Moderator Staff Member

    But Rerun.... everyone gets a trophy!!!!!! lol :p
    even coach pitch 8u World series is probably out there! Every sanction has em, most used to be all qualifiers which you had to win some more local tourneys to get the bid to go to the big one usually a few states away... then there is all the open world series that any bobs waterbed can go to... then there's money involved... hmmm... wait! there ya go! $$$ mo money mo money mo money
    daboss likes this.
  3. Rerun

    Rerun Super Moderator Staff Member

    My favorite is when someone claims to win a national then you find out later they actually won a Eastern national, southern national, East Coast National, ‘Great lake nationals or Billy Bob World Series. Ye ok great job.
  4. yocoach

    yocoach Super Moderator Staff Member

    Let's be honest. TB today is more about money than the players or anything else. If there wasn't a market for them, those tournaments wouldn't exist. How many teams that charge $800-$1200 in fees a year have parents who can afford to pay $4000-$5000 in travel, hotels, food, etc. to go play a true "National" tournament? By the same token, I wouldn't pooh-pooh those Regional "National" tournaments. That's still quite an accomplishment to win one. Just like the NCAA has some D3 teams that would beat a majority of D1 Softball teams, I'm sure that these Regional "National" tournaments have a few teams that would surprise many of the supposed top "True Nationally Ranked Teams." Just because those teams can't afford (monetarily) to compete at that level doesn't mean that they can't actually compete and beat many of those teams.
    OhPhat, 9ball, coachjwb and 2 others like this.
  5. coachjwb

    coachjwb Well-Known Member

    I agree with yocoach. The fault isn’t in having these tournaments, it’s in naming them “nationals” or “world series”, and then having coaches/parents/players bragging about winning them. But having these venues and regionals out there as season-ending goals or aspirations for teams who either can’t afford to go to true nationals or who honestly just don’t have the talent to do that is a good thing.
    yocoach likes this.
  6. daboss

    daboss Well-Known Member

    I can honestly only speak from my own personal experiences because it is the right thing to do. If any of you get a chance to attend the USSSA national convention or the NFCA national convention, walk around and meet/talk fastpitch with the people there. They all love to talk about our game. It will make your eyes roll into the back of your head when you hear the stories others have to share. The money spent-------------------more than yocoach mentioned for a season is spent in some areas of the country for a nonrefundable tryout!!!!!! It has eased some but many many are still shelling out thousands of dollars for that gold ring-------------forget brass........... It's almost as if the first liar doesn't stand a chance but they aren't lying.

    We all need to accept that sanctioning bodies have their own set of gimmicks to draw the money their direction. Qualifiers were/are a great gimmick locally. Teams believing if they win they can somehow fund-raise the money to travel for what may end up being a Regional event. For good measure they add "national" to it and all the sudden the fight for a trophy increases in intensity.

    Is it worth it?

    Yes. In my honest opinion it is worth it.

    It is worth it for a host of reasons but not for the "King of the Mountain" #1 in the country most parents and coaches want to believe. It's the experience and fond memories that will last a life time that is the greatest treasure of all. The confidence boost to help many of the young athletes compete, the self-esteem and self-worth, the closeness and compassion of the families that can come from all the "ups" and "downs" of the journey. All these things are irreplaceable to so many. Many say the sacrifices make the experience worthwhile. Most of the time it's the family making most of the sacrifice. The player gives up sweat and tears. In all, it plants so many things deep inside many of us. For some that take a dirty path, it leaves them unfulfilled and bitter. The families don't realize the damage. Bad coaches don't realize the negative input and influence they have on others. Beyond the darkness, greatness can be achieved. You simply need to define things as to what is important. Your definition may differ from mine.

    We can all ask the question "Is it worth the hype?" Sure it is! Should they all get a participation ribbon or trophy? Absolutely not. Watered down nationals, State tourney-northern half, State tourney-southern half, Eastern regional, Southern regional, West Coast anything, Midwest,----------let the kids have it. What's to gain from tearing a fond memory from a kid feeling good about themselves because her and her family spent a week in Kansas in 90-degree temps playing in a tourney against kids from all over the country? Buy them a jacket with "National Champs" embroidered on the back and be proud of what they did. Buy them a T-shirt from the tourney, simply because you were there. Ask them 30 years later about what are some of their fondest memories in their past and get ready to hear a never-ending story full of laughter and tears.

    Heck yes it's worth it....................Have a great career in this game ladies. I'm your biggest fan.
  7. coachjwb

    coachjwb Well-Known Member

    Daboss ... always the voice of reason!
  8. Rerun

    Rerun Super Moderator Staff Member

    No Daboss is Daman.
  9. CARDS

    CARDS Active Member

    Honestly; One could argue there are too many sanctioning bodies. Too many watered down teams etc... I feel though, options are a good thing for players, teams and families and the sport.
    Even back 15/20 years ago there were options depending on the level of play but I will say the various levels of play seemed to be better represented especially at the higher levels A and gold.

    What I mean by this is, you earned your way into an event by attending qualifying events and winning. You played in the level you were sanctioned and received points for playing up if you faced higher sanctioned teams. if you were B or lower.
    Back 10 plus years ago teams played ASA, A/B Gold, NSA A/B, USSSA A,B,or C, ISA, USFA, Pony or Little League not one sanctioning body one week and another next week. (Unless you played in Quakermans events)
    Now softball has a couple more sanctioning bodies and all sanction WS (that we played in once at 23U a few years back). It was set up decent with something like 14 teams at that age and the competition at that level was pretty balanced.

    A lot of events today are now offering at large bids or avenues where teams that may not have the resume enter or, this option for teams that may have played a showcase specific schedule especially at 14 and above ....
    With that said, It is notable if a team wins any national tournament and the ladies should not think less of themselves or team if they play say lesser known event if that is what their season goal is. I pulled up the SEAA WS from last week we played in before our ASA national back in 2010 and it was run good with a lot of other things to do as a team. The new park looks nice and they look to have had about 30 teams in each division 10u through 16 U represented by about 15 states. Ohio looks to have had 5 or 6 in each age range some of the organizations may surprise some...

    Regardless 1 or 2 years down the road the only ones who remembers or cares is the players themselves.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
    centralpride07 and daboss like this.
  10. Doom Leader

    Doom Leader Active Member

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