Catching and Catchers discussion HS catchers calling pitches

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I know I have seem some threads on this in the past, but wanted to maybe put a little different spin on this. Should high school/16U/18U catchers be calling pitches? They obviously have the best seat in the house to see what the pitcher has working, what the ump is calling, and where a batter might be susceptible ... the question is are most of them students of the game enough to do this as effectively as a coach who is focusing on this? I know some coaches let them and some don't ... I know its done more in baseball and not as much in even college fastpitch ... but the question is what do you think is more effective at this age level ... the coaches or the catchers calling the pitches?

 

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From my experience (per my college career in fast-pitch as a pitcher as well as a collegiate coach) most catchers in college do call the pitches.

The 16&U and 18&U catchers should start to call pitches as their knowledge of the game progresses. If you have the pitchers and catchers charting pitches throughout the game and working through what the girls are hitting and what weakenesses are based on stance, proximity to the plate, type of swing...etc. the catcher will eventually get smarter behind the plate. This may be a slow process at first. You also need a coach that knows what he or she are talking about. I think the problem is that many coaches at that level do not teach that part of the game which is in my mind....EXTREMELY important.

 

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I think that if I coached HS softball I would not allow my catcher to call the game. Most good teams are one pitch per game better or worse then a good opponent. I would rather that difference be placed on my shoulders.

Having said that, I would be sure that the cather and pitchers were all on the same page with me regarding how we would be handling certin hitters and handling some situations.

Regarding gettig the catcher used to this for the college game I am not really sure if it is something that needs practice. Kind of like practicing giving the signs. Not to minimize it but the fact remains many college coaches still call the games themselves. It is something that can very easily be worked out or worked on nce the player arrives at college.

 

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Ours let them call it from Middle school up. If there is discussion on issues, it happens between innings for agreement to be sure they are on the same page. They may ask was did you call a certain pitch during an inning, but just to make sure the pitcher hit their spot. I think it gives the kids great experience and confidence. Will they miss a pitch or location here or there, sure, but that's how they learn.

 

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This one can go either way. If you have a coach who is ?very good and experienced then I think it's their call. If you have a coach who is marginal at best, the catcher may be better at it. Also if you have a pitcher and catcher who play travel ball together and work well with each other, then the catcher may be the way to go.

 

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Seems to me that at the younger levels of travel ball there are a lot of parents calling the pitches for their DD. Would this hinder or help young catchers to develope the skills to call a game as they mature?

 

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I can't see any coach in travel ball allowing a parent doing that. Either he (or she ) is coaching or not. Most coaches I know usually make it clear when the game is going on the parents need to be encouragers, not controllers.

 

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In our area I have seen quite a few parents in the younger ages 12U 10u calling for their dds. I did for mine I didn't ask to but called her game for her just the same. But also I know how to call a game also. Plus coach and I made sure we were on the same page also. In the older age groups I feel the catchers should start calling the game and look to the coach if there is a question. Most of that can be handled with signals. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

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Would really like to hear from more high school and 16U/18U travel coaches on this. My sense is that most coaches are calling the pitches but some are hesitant to share that. I certainly don't think a non-coaching parent should be calling pitches at any age, unless of course the coach asks them to.

 

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I would let them call the game. They have caught the pitcher, and she knows what is working and what is not (umpire's zone,breaking pitches,location,etc.). During pre season practices they catch them, and they can work on "Mock" situations on what to throw in different situations. If they play a team multiple times, they will need to go back over scorebook/pitch charts from the previous games and mix it up some.

I like what hilliarddad3 said about getting them started early in the process. The only problem I see with this is some lenghty skull sessions with 7-8th grade catchers/pitchers to make sure they know the game (I know it is not as complex as the HS & Travel 16-18U), but this is a GREAT start. Talk about situations in between innings. What a better place to let them make mistakes, and learn as they go. Without mistakes, they'll never get better.

 

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With the hitters getting better and better the game is becoming more then just throwing the ball past them. Pitchers are having to pitch and hit spots where they will be effective.

If a coach actually knows how to call a game then they should. I do not agree with parents calling the game for thier DD while she is pitching, big no no.

One last thought...if a coach has a player call the game and the team has a 2-1 lead in the bottom 7th with two outs and two runners on, I hope the can live with the decision that the catcher makes.....and be able to explain it to the other 11 sets of parents on the team who will have questions if it was a pitch that got crushed because the catcher asked for it in the wrong location.

 

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I have one catcher, and a catcher/pitcher, that I started let call the games back when they were in 7th grade. Early on we would discuss the batters coming up each inning and the strategy for each, and occasionally I would call for a certain pitch or signal NOT to call a certain pitch. Now they discuss the batters and what is working or not on their own; if I've seen a batter before, or we're coming back to a particularly tough portion of the lineup, I'll mention what I've observed, and may ask what their approach will be, but generally let them work it out. On occasion (not often) I will ask for time and take a trip to the circle to make sure all of us are on the same page. Did/do they make mistakes? Certainly, but in most cases rarely do they make the same mistake twice.

One other thing that I insist upon is that the pitcher has just as much responsibility for the pitch being called as the catcher (and more for the delivery). I don't want a lengthy negotiation over each pitch, but if the pitcher agrees to throw the pitch that was called, both are responsible for the success or failure of that pitch. This #1 keeps the finger pointing to a minimum, and #2 allows me to pair up an experienced member of the battery with a less experienced member and still achieve good results.

 

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Just testing the Board, to see why it double posting.

 

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Another test to see if I can get it to double post..

Not sure why but for some reason some of the messages are getting double posted..

 

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The kicker is those who take the sign from the catcher and then daddy(non coach from the seats) The best response to that, as the catcher is the one who gets messed up not knowing what's coming is, walk out to the mound and tell the pitcher, you do that again and you go find yourself another catcher, it stops that real fast.

 

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Another test to see if I can get it to double post..

Not sure why but for some reason some of the messages are getting double posted..

Usually the double posts come about when the poster gets an error message, hits the back button and then posts again thinking that the first post didn't take...

 

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Great topic. In my limited coaching experience, I tried to get the catchers and pitchers to work together. We started having the catchers call pitches in 14U. Generally one of us would sit close to the backstop and observe, then talk about the pitch calling between innings. Was the batter crowding the plate? Standing straight? In a severe crouch? Looking to slap? To drag? I thought that it really kept the pitcher and catcher mentally involved. Certainly, mistakes were made, but after a few games, the pitchers and catchers would understand what to throw in most of the situations. Sometimes the conversations would be as short as "Change speeds more often"

I've sat in the stands observing games when the coach would call for a fastball ouside to a slap hitter, the ball would be delivered to the spot, and the ball slapped to the left side for a base hit. The logic of that pitch call always escapes me.

My advice would be to allow the P and C to work it out together. They do have the best vantage point and the best understanding of the pitches that are working and the strike zone of the moment. Certainly monitor their thinking in the beginning. If you are a coach that really understands pitch selection, pass that knowledge on to your pupils. Part of learning to pitch and catch is pitch calling, don't deny them this chance.

I've seen many college coaches calling pitches. To me this shows either a lack of teaching the battery, or a sure sign of a control freak!

 

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during high school our high school coach calls the pitches.
during summer ball, pitcher and catcher called pitches.
Pitcher would talk to the catcher after warming up and thru out the game on what was working and she'd shake her off if she didn't like what the catcher was calling.

 

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Rich

My daughter takes lessons from Bill Hillhouse. We ALWAYS bring her catcher with us and he spends a great deal of time teaching BOTH of them what is the right pitch in the right situation. I'm pretty confident Bill has a good idea of what's the right pitch at the right time. <grin>

Having said that, in the scenario that you gave (bottom of 7th, runners on base and protecting a 2-1 lead)... how do we know it would be the catcher's fault if the game was lost? Sometimes it's a bad pitch, sometimes the batter guessed right, and sometimes they hit a good pitch. I think the most important thing is to TEACH the catchers what's the best pitch and when. Kids need to learn that we win as a team, lose as a team...regardless of who called the pitch.

CC

 

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clueless coach:

Great point. Sometimes even the right call won't get you the right result and it's not very helpful to pin the entire game on one person or one decision.