Softball Rule's 101 - Questions & Answers

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

I had never seen the scenario below until it actually occurred in a men's slowpitch state tournament I was running about 12 years ago. The batter hit a frozen rope into the left center field gap and the runner on first took off because it looked like it would roll for days. The center fielder (who I found out later was all-state in baseball in high school) come out of nowhere and dove and speared it cleanly for the out. The baserunner was half way around second when he made the catch. He turns around and starts streaking back around second towards first and the ball goes over his shoulder to the first baseman for the 3rd out. The whole time this occurred, the runner on third never moved and tagged up on the catch and scored in front of the 3rd out at first. The coach on the defensive side went berserk when the dish ump reminded him the run on the play did count. The dish ump had even called out loudly "Run scored" when the runner from third scored ahead of the throw to first to help his partner out and also to let the defense know that it was a legitimate run. That didn't stop the defensive coach from putting up the protest fee and having the game stopped to get a ruling. Fortunately my site UIC knew the scenario well and made the correct ruling.

It depends!
Next question:

Does the run count on this play?

Runners on first and third. One out. Batter hits fly ball to the outfield and it is caught. Runner on third tags up and goes home. The runner on first goes to second, but fails to tag up.

After the runner crosses the plate, the defense throws the ball to F3 who catches it and touches first base, appealing that the runner left early.

 

[BretMan2]

That didn't stop the defensive coach from putting up the protest fee and having the game stopped to get a ruling...

Did anybody thank him for making a contribution to the umpire's beer fund?

I participate on a few different baseball and softball discussion boards. This question comes up time and time again. I bet that I've seen it at least a dozen times this season alone. But I have never had it come up in one of my games.

Most people (like the coach in your story) think that when the ball is thrown to the base and the base is tagged before the runner gets back it's a force out (and it negates the run). It's not (and it doesn't). It's a live ball appeal play. The run either counts or doesn't count depending on the timing of the appeal.

Any runs crossing the plate before the appeal is made count. Any crossing after don't.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Same situation, but routine pop up drifts into foul territory and, only because the runner bumps into the first baseman, the ball is not caught.....

The answer to this one can actually be different depending on the rule set (ie: ASA vs. high school).

NFHS (2011): Foul ball and runner is out.

ASA: Dead ball and both runner and batter are out.

I believe this would also apply to Gundog's previous question on the pop-up too because ASA rule 8.7J Exception says "If the interference prevents a fielder from catching a routine fly ball, fair or foul, with ordinary effort, the batter is also out." The rules supplement that covers interference on foul fly balls does not override this.

BTW, under NCAA rules, the runner closest to home would be called out.

There is often chaos when a fly ball is not caught after Infield Fly has been called. Is the batter out? Do the runners have to advance or tag up before advancing?

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

When I used to frequent Softball Fans a few years back, it seemed like it got asked on there every Monday morning during the season. I figured they would make a sticky and just paste it there at the top, because it got so redundant. And of course 75% of the responders wanted to argue that it was a force play. NSA actually added a definition in the front of the rulebook a few years ago saying that there can not be a force out on a caught fly ball. I don't frequent the other sanctions books, but we probably got it from federation or a competitor.

The coach who lost the appeal stood there at the backstop after the UIC made the ruling and we were getting play resumed with his hand out and said in this goofy voice, "Do I get my money back?". When I let him know that he appealed and lost and that is how the procedure works when you lose a rules appeal and then he got real ugly. Ugly enough that the dish ump ran him and then I had to call the police to get him to leave the property because of his threats that started toward me right after he got tossed. Then he had the nerve to call our national office and say I pitched him from the complex for no apparent reason. After I explained everything that happened with the on field play, the appeal, and his antics after, our national UIC said let him know he is not welcome in anything else NSA related until he apologizes to you. I am still waiting for that apology and have never seen the guy since.

And yes the umpires all got a meal and barley pops on the TD courtesy of the generous coach from the Cleveland area.

Slow-pitch used to have some different people than youth. But once we got better officials to start working with us, it settled down. Good officials can make or break you!

I came out on the short end of that same thing just a few years ago during one of the last slow-pitch events I ran. The UIC made a ruling on what his two officials told him at the plate. The coach stood there with me for a few minutes after the ruling went against him. I asked if he was ok (with the memory of the other time still etched in my brain) because he had been somewhat polite during the whole thing and he said yes but you owe me change for that hundy I gave you. Turns out this coach also umpires for NSA and called our zone UIC the next day about it. The zone UIC gave me a call and I got him the 2 umpires names and contact info. They told our zone UIC an entirely different scenario than what they told the tournament UIC. The zone UIC asked me to return the $75 to the coach which I had no problem doing. I guess I am breakeven on the appeals thing.

Did anybody thank him for making a contribution to the umpire's beer fund?

I participate on a few different baseball and softball discussion boards. This question comes up time and time again. I bet that I've seen it at least a dozen times this season alone. But I have never had it come up in one of my games.

Most people (like the coach in your story) think that when the ball is thrown to the base and the base is tagged before the runner gets back it's a force out (and it negates the run). It's not (and it doesn't). It's a live ball appeal play. The run either counts or doesn't count depending on the timing of the appeal.

Any runs crossing the plate before the appeal is made count. Any crossing after don't.

 

[Admin]

How many players must you have to start a game?

And if I'm short handed and I lose any players in the course of the game. Whats the minimum amount of players I can have in the game and continue playing?

 

[Comp]

Depends on the rule set being played under. ASA and USSSA game can start and end with 8 players, but a team may not continue shorthanded if it is the result of an ejection. FED and NSA rules require 9 to start the game but may continue with 8. Again, a team may not continue to play shorthanded if it is the result of an ejection. In any rule set, the vacant spot in the batting lineup becomes an automatic out. NSA also has a provision in the rules stating the batter just before the automatic out may not be intentionally or unintentionally walked to get to the automatic out. All rule sets state if a legal sub becomes available they must be put into the vacant spot in the lineup.

 

[Admin]

Age verification in the course of a game. As a girls softball Coach, how do I properly request to get a verification that a girl is eligible to play and have her birth certificate check?

If the player is ineligible to play in the current age group she is participating with, what recourse or actions are taken when discovered?

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

That is only partially correct. You can start pool play games with 8 and take the automatic out in the 9th spot. The 9th can be added at any time without penalty. Bracket play has to start with a minimum of 9 players. NSA does not have an ejection policy. If you go below 8 players, then the game is over at that point. The auto out scenario is partially correct. What you listed below is correct if there are TWO OUTS. You can walk the spot in front of the vacant spot in the order to get the automatic out with less than two outs.

NSA rules require 9 to start the game but may continue with 8. Again, a team may not continue to play shorthanded if it is the result of an ejection. In any rule set, the vacant spot in the batting lineup becomes an automatic out. NSA also has a provision in the rules stating the batter just before the automatic out may not be intentionally or unintentionally walked to get to the automatic out. All rule sets state if a legal sub becomes available they must be put into the vacant spot in the lineup.

 

[Gundog]

So Cal asked "There is often chaos when a fly ball is not caught after Infield Fly has been called. Is the batter out? Do the runners have to advance or tag up before advancing?

Depends....assuming it landed in fair territory, batter is out and runners go at own risk - but can stay if they want. If ball is not caught no need to ever tag up. If the ball ends up drifting into foul, then a strike and everyone returns to original base. I alway appreciate when the umpire calls "Infield fly if fair"

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Thanks Gundog for answering my question. Good point on fair vs foul, however the regular criteria for determining fair/foul are used and where the ball landed may or may not be applicable.

Question: Batter swings at pitch and ball goes off their hand(s) into fair territory. What's the call (if any)?

 

[snoman76]

I'll take a guess and say.......dead ball - Strike......??

Since the hands are not part of the bat it would be like if you swung at a pitch that hit you in the hip and rolled into fair territory..

 

[Johnnyfootball]

What is the case if an ump does not call out "infield fly" when the game situation clearly calls for it? When questioned, she said it was not called an "infield fly". Well, I already knew that. Again when I questioned, she said it was not called an IF. As it turned out, the fielder dropped the ball and threw home for a force out but the batter wound up on first base and only one out was recorded.
Isn't the last sentence in the original reply a wrong statement and should read not in front of automatically.

The infield fly rule is a call made by the umpire when a routine fly ball is hit in or around the infield but only when there are at least 2 runners on creating force outs (such as runners at 1st and 2nd, 1st 2nd & 3rd). On the call, the batter is out and all base runners are no longer required to advance. The reason for this is to prevent the defense from abusing the base running rules and getting a double play. This is a judgement call by the umpires. Line drives or anything that is considered not a reasonable play will automatically get this call.

New question:

Who has the right to the basepath between the offense vs the defense?

 

[BretMan2]

To answer your last question first...Neither a line drive or a fly ball not catchable with ordinary effort should ever be called an infield fly, because those aren't included in the rule.

In your play, did the umpire ever say why the infield fly wasn't called? It's kind of hard for us to guess why somebody did or didn't call something. Maybe they don't understand the rule, or didn't think it was catchable with ordinary effort, or they just forgot...

If an umpire doesn't call an infield fly when they should have, or does call one when they shouldn't, the rules do allow them to make corrections after the play. They don't necessarily have to, but they are allowed to. And if they realize that they blew the call and it hurt either team, they should correct it.

But you're not going to get any free outs here. On your play, if the umpire realized her mistake and invoked the infield fly after the play, that means the batter would be out. But it would also mean that since the batter was out there are no force outs to be had at any base!

Maybe the runners were put in jeopardy by thinking they had to run when they didn't, since no infield fly was called. And maybe the fielders were put in jeopardy by thinking that they had a force out and didn't need to actually tag the runner when, when they really did.

If an umpire had to "fix" this, by calling the infield fly after the play, you'd probably have the batter out and return all the other runners to whichever base they were on at the start of the play. But there's no set-in-stone solution in the rule book. It's whatever the umpire judges would have most likely happened if the right call had been made in the first place. Neither team should be unjustly penalized, yet neither team should unjustly profit.

If the umpire refuses to budge, for whatever reason, then you have bases loaded and one more out. If the umpire does go back and call the infield fly, and returns the runners, then you have bases loaded and one more out. So it's not really like either side would be getting robbed here.

 

[Comp]

One other item needs to be added to the situations Bretman has listed as not being infield flies. A bunted ball is also never an infield fly.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Reminder: The goal of this thread is to cover lots of softball rules, especially ones that are commonly misunderstood. So, please keep the thread going by asking the next question - even/especially ones you understand - after answering the last one.

Which of the following are force plays?
A. Batter-runner at first base.
B. Runner from 1B to 2B on ground ball.
C. Runner that left base before caught fly ball was touched.
D. Tagging runner instead of base for out.