This has got to stop...

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This has happened twice in the last 3 weeks and I need to vent.

First week of June our 16u team was playing in a non-qualifier tune-up in Toledo. In a really good bracket game with our team one run up, a player for the opposing team hits a triple with a runner on to tie the score, but she rounds third too far and our pitcher, who cut the ball to the plate, runs at her. She breaks for home and the pitcher tosses to our catcher who has her out by 2-3 steps. Instead of trying to slide around or through the catcher, she barrels in like a linebacker trying to 'blow up' our catcher. Our catcher takes the hit holds on and we immediately stand up and scream for a call. The umpire, instead of addressing the runner or the other team, addresses our bench and says 'nobody is getting ejected'. Things calm down and the game goes to tiebreaker and we lose in the 9th on a passed ball with that player able to bat in the 9th. Great game with two very good teams, but marred by unsportsmanlike play and the lack of consequences from the umpire.

Fast forward to today. Playing in a meaningless game (coincidentally in Toledo) in another non-qualifier, a similar incident. Low scoring game, our catcher tries to pick off a runner at third. Ball skips to the outfield and runner gets up and heads home. Left fielder backing up the play throws a strike to the catcher who has her out by at least a step. This time, there was no question that she was never planning to slide. Instead, she lowers her shoulder and sends our catcher flying backwards and landing on her keester. Catcher holds on again and girl is called out. We immediately complain to the umpire that if there was ever a reason to eject a player, this was it. He went to the other coach to say some words (I presume a warning), but could not explain to us why the player wasn't ejected. Again, this was another good game that was overshadowed by poor sportsmanship. To the opposing coach's credit, he made the player come over to our catcher and apologize, but it was clearly forced.

So I have 2 questions:

1) Are players being taught that they should play this way, and/or is it being condoned by coaches? I have coached fastpitch for 12 years and would never allow one of my players to try to 'blow up' a catcher. Hard slides, of course. Full body blocks at full speed - ABSOLUTELY NOT!

2) Are umpires encouraging this type of play by not making the call to eject? What message are we sending the player?

One of the great things about the game of softball is the sportsmanship and the opportunity for coaches to teach life lessons that players can take with them when their playing days are over. I am really disheartened to see this type of play in our game and the fact that it seems to be condoned by some coaches and some umpires as well.
 
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poor sportsmanship yes and yes it needs to be called but will it be called more often than not no.But there are alot of calls that are not made like a crow hop 6 inches away from the rubber or a runner leaving early.Some of these calls need to be made so the player will learn not to do it again.Not just for the benifit of the other team.


jmho
 
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had it happen to our team 16u (catcher)last year westerville warcat tournament umpire did nothing.... i always thought and see in rule book (i believe) softball is a non contact sport,u must avoid contact at all times..starting to see this as a trend...this was an umpire that everyone knows on here..
 
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My point exactly. If there are no consequences, what are they learning? That it is OK to continue to do - just like crow-hopping. Only difference is that this could get someone seriously injured.

By the way, I spoke to the umpire about 1/2 hour after the game about why he decided not to eject her and he told me "I may have blown it". It was good to hear the honesty, and I thanked him for it. Unfortunately, it would have been better if he had told that to the player.
 
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1) Can't really comment on what other coaches are teaching their players because I'm not in on their coaching sessions. I can say that when I did coach I taught my players to either slide or avoid contact, as the rules specify.

2) Here's one umpire that won't condone flagrant contact. With, literally, thousands of umpires throughout the state I would hesitate to paint them all with the same broad brush and say they're all letting stuff like this go without penalty.

At what point is it the player's fault who actually plowed into the catcher? The rules don't permit that, most umpires don't allow it, and the runner is operating on her own free will, in control of her own actions. Any action the umpire can take is "after the fact", so what can they do to prevent this from happening in the first place?

Players do lot's of illegal things even though they are against the rules and have been forever. And they will probably keep on doing illegal things, no matter what calls are being made in other games on different days.
 
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had it happen to our team 16u (catcher)last year westerville warcat tournament umpire did nothing.... i always thought and see in rule book (i believe) softball is a non contact sport,u must avoid contact at all times..starting to see this as a trend...this was an umpire that everyone knows on here..

Well it wasn't me, because I didn't work the Warcats tourney last year. :D

But, no, the rules do not say that you "must avoid contact at all times". There are times when you must. There are also times when, depending on the circumstances of the play, that contact can be deemed legal or incidental.
 
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What is being described here - lowering the shoulder - is a classic definition of malicious contact which is an automatic ejection. Have seen it in HS a couple of times and both times the offending runner was ejected without hesitation.

What you get in summertime are sometimes umpires who are not familiar with the rules. Two instances this week that were clearly incorrect interpretations. To the officials credit they did go and look it up and come back later to apologize for the wrong calls. Too late (one may have cost a game - blocking the plate) but was glad to see them take the initiative to look it up and have the courage to apologize. These umps need to take a little time and familiarize themselves with the rules of the game. There are many out there that are very good and know the rules inside and out. Seems that the summer only umps are not as familiar with all of the rules as the OHSAA umps are. I know some won't agree with that statement!
 
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As Bretman stated, it doesn't say word for word "must avoid contact". But, when the shoulder is lowered, it is now malicious contact and should be an immediate ejection.

But......back a few years ago when ASA and other sanctions revamped the obstruction rules, IMHO it lead to more aggressive play at the plate.

Catcher's not in possession of the ball but still about to recieve the ball must leave an unobstucted path to the base. This could be straddling the plate or being completely in front of the plate. If the catcher is straddling the plate, the catcher is is still providing an unobstructed path and the catcher is trying to make the runner commit to sliding. However, there is no rule that the runner must slide. If the runner comes into the plate standing up, she is perfectly legal, as long as the runner doesn't lower her shoulder.
 
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DD's catcher was in front of the plate receiving the throw from 1st when she was hit by runner from 3rd. No slide, shoulder down, she was hit w/ so much force that it flipped her and she landed on her side.
Catcher is 160 and solid so when she landed it caused a shearing force that caused both of her articular cartilages on left knee to fracture. The ump made no call....
 
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I am going to make a very very very very very cold comment that ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NEVER BE SAID BY A COACH TO A PLAYER but at the age you are talking about (16s), if the umpire is not going to take care of ths situation, the pitcher should. Next player to step to the plate gets a fastball in the side... Issue resolved. It will ensure that the next player thinks twice about running over your catcher.

It is the pitchers responsibility to take care of her players. When the umpire does not ensure that the pitchers players are protected... the pitcher should.

As a coach I will never tell a pitcher to hit a batter. But as these girls play together and become close and endearing friends. I would expect the pitcher (especially with the relationships that forms between pitcher and catcher) to ensure that her girls are protected and taken care of.

You want to run over one of my friends. See how a fastball approaching 60 mph feels in the side.

You don't turn your other cheek. An eye for an eye.

I am sure this is going to offend a ton of people out there but I am sorry. The pitcher is the mama dog and the players around her are her pups... You hurt one of her pups... she is going to bite back...
 
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I was thinking the same thing,but didn't have the guts to say it......thanks for saying it for me. They'll think twice next time..........;&
 
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When the umpire does not ensure that the pitchers players are protected... the pitcher should.

Here's the problem I have with that "logic".

Once the catcher has been blown up, the damage is already done. What is there possibly that an umpire can do "after the fact" that would have protected the catcher? :confused:

You can't stop the play before it happens and you can't do anything about it until after it happens.
 
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so who teaches a catcher how to protect themselves behind the plate? we depend on catchers to get it right, but how little time we provide for them to practice the skills they will need to get it right in a game....
 
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so who teaches a catcher how to protect themselves behind the plate? we depend on catchers to get it right, but how little time we provide for them to practice the skills they will need to get it right in a game....

DD is a catcher and through a couple different camps, she was taught to basically try to be as low to the ground as possible. That is not always possible due to the throw, but stay low, field the throw, push the leg into the path, and sweep for the tag.:)

By staying low, the runner really can't get down that low if the intent is to try to have a collision.
 
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Bretman... I probably used the wrong words there...

I was trying to say...

If the umpire, immediately ejects the player. The pitcher can step back and say... "OK.. this umpire is running a tight game here and he/she will ensure that my players are taken care of and will not let anything like this happen again."

The players on the other team understand that there are consequences to their actions (i.e. ejection) and will clearly think twice about ever doing it again.

The pitcher can step back and say... "Umpire took care of it... nothing I need to do."

If the umpire does nothing... allows the player to "get away with hurting the catcher"... the other team now knows there are NO consequences to their actions. They understand they can slide high, take out a knee, collide with players, and so on and there will be no consequences to their actions.

I am just saying when the umpire does nothing to stop this type of actions then the pitcher lets the other team know that this type of action will not be tollerated.
 
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If the umpire, immediately ejects the player. The pitcher can step back and say... "OK.. this umpire is running a tight game here and he/she will ensure that my players are taken care of and will not let anything like this happen again."

That makes sense. I guess that I'm just operating from the perspective that if I see an ejectionable offense, then the player will be ejected!
 
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DD is a catcher and through a couple different camps, she was taught to basically try to be as low to the ground as possible. That is not always possible due to the throw, but stay low, field the throw, push the leg into the path, and sweep for the tag.:)

By staying low, the runner really can't get down that low if the intent is to try to have a collision.

I highly doubt there are many runners that will be running your DD over at the plate. Go Megan
 
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I highly doubt there are many runners that will be running your DD over at the plate. Go Megan


Yep. And her trying to be a small target is like trying to get that square peg into the round hole....it will be a little difficult :D
 
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factory--- Ours were taught early on as Bill stated to stay low and sort of slide block with the shinguards parallel to the ground if that makes sense. this way the legs aren't upright with the knees giving way to an injury.... let them slide into the shinguards when blocking...

But truly saw this called once years ago at the Vandalia tournament without hesitation by Blue who made a great call on it...
 

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