USA Softball: DP/Flex and EP

Discussion in 'The Umpires Life and Rulings' started by CoachNate, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. CoachNate

    CoachNate Member

    Ok. Looked through the forum and saw some discussion on this but did not answer my direct question(s)

    Note: This is in relationship to a USA Softball Sanctioned Tournament
    1. If utilizing the DP/Flex Scenario, can an EP be utilized in the lineup as well?
    2. If the EP can be utilized (either with or without the DP/Flex), does the EP HAVE to be listed in the 10th slot or last slot of the lineup, or can they go anywhere in the lineup.
    3. If utilizing the DP/Flex can I "SWITCH" the DP/Flex around. In other words, can I have one pitcher bat for my starting pitcher who is the Flex as the DP, but then enter the DP Pitcher in for the Flex starting Pitcher and therefore have the original starting Flex Pitcher now become the DP.
  2. BretMan2

    BretMan2 TSZ/OFC Umpire in Chief

    First, remember that EP's can ONLY be used in pool play. Once you hit bracket/elimination play you have to go to a standard line-up (9 batting, or 9 batting with a FLEX in the 10th spot).

    1) Yes, you can have both DP/FLEX and EP's in your line-up.

    2) All of the EP's (players batting only and not starting on defense) get listed at the end of the line-up, after the 9th defensive player or after the FLEX if being used.

    3) lost me! If I'm following what you're asking, then "no". Once a player is the FLEX or DP, they are the FLEX or DP throughout the entire time they're in the line-up. A FLEX may bat for a DP (in which case the DP has left the game and must use a re-entry to come back in), or the DP can play defense for the FLEX (and the FLEX leaves the game).

    I'm not sure if that helps. The DP/FLEX rule hasn't changed from what it's been since it was introduced over a decade ago.
  3. BretMan2

    BretMan2 TSZ/OFC Umpire in Chief

  4. TR_Out

    TR_Out Member

    There is a quirky thing about EPs. The rule states they have to be listed at the end of the lineup (after your 9th defensive player or after the Flex if being used as Bretman says) but they can also play ANY defensive position. So... if you want your starting 3rd base player to be your very last batter, you have to list them as an EP when you turn in your lineup card even though she will be the actual starting 3B player. I say quirky because I can't understand what they are trying to accomplish by requiring the EPs to be last since you can so easily (and without breaking any rules) effectively have them as non-defensive players batting anywhere in the lineup.
  5. BretMan2

    BretMan2 TSZ/OFC Umpire in Chief

    That is a quirky loophole that I hadn't thought about! My only guess is that it just makes for a neater line-up card, while meeting the USA rule that every player in the line-up must have a position listed. I'm trying to think of a downside of what would happen if you could list the EP's throughout the line-up, sprinkled in with the first nine position players, but can't come up with one.

    As a side note, ever since ASA/USA started this rule three years ago, I have yet to have a single tournament use it exactly as written. Most list "batting the roster" as a special tournament rule and say to use the "last out" as a courtesy runner. I'm convinced that they're not aware the new rule even exists, or that it already allows batting the roster in pool play and has its own provisions for courtesy runners and substitutions.
  6. M & R Davis

    M & R Davis Member

    Bret - will the tournament you’re running this weekend be using the ASA/USA rule as it is written?
  7. BretMan2

    BretMan2 TSZ/OFC Umpire in Chief

    Sorry. I don't run tournaments. You might have me confused with someone else.

    The tournaments where I umpire have not used the "as written" rule since it's inception three years ago. To this day, I see tournaments list "bat the roster" as a special rule, calling it an exception to the USA rules. It's not- at least for pool play. USA has taken into account all of the special substitution, courtesy runner, and playing short-handed rules that could be affected by "batting the roster" and added them to their rule book. So, they really have covered all the bases. No need for a tournament to write special rules to cover this!

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