Are Ohio HS girls being hurt by OHSAA rules?

Are you guys missing the real point of the rules. They were put in to make sure that Basketball coaches and Football coaches can't [highlight]legally[/highlight] force their kids to play year around. Today they just do it and break the rules. I am a HS coach and do it becasue I love helping young people out, not for the money. I may save money of I didn't coach. I also coach travel softball and run into a bunch of Mike Candrea wannabees that think they have al the answers and get off by slamming HS coachces and their lack of softball coaching ability. If you do not like the program and the coach Ohio has open enrollment or make your daughter work hard with you or a private coach and make the best of it. I played for the biggest Moron in HS, but played travel baseball and still managed to play DI baseball. If you and your daughter want to put in the time, no OHSSA rules are going to hold you back.

well said pvmaddogs

Man am I getting tired of seeing the HS coaches getting slammed. Can we all agree that there are some very good coaches and some not so good coaches at all levels and leave it at that?

I didn't mean for this to turn into a HS coach beat down. There are good arguements on both sides.

at first i could not imagine that this many people are p-o-ed about their high school coaches/programs, but then i realized that we have 4x the amount of posts about being unhappy with travel coaches/orgs...so let's try to put this in perspective

the rules are put into place to protect girls from recruiting farms and overzealous candrea wannabes (whoever said that earlier, you hit it nail on)
but if you were to get around something, just have an assisstant dad-coach run the team during the "off" season....this is what happens in suburban leagues where travel players are more likely to exist (in texas anyway, especially in baseball, where kids can play together so long as not being coached by their varsity coach--as he sits in the stands with a walkie talkie)

superlative travel girls/parents will get their time in, regardless...i wouldn't imagine a scenario where dd wasnt playing school ball, this being her last year in january to focus on travel more...waht travel is even going on in april/feb? ?indoor games against lower-rung talent where the girls play to half their ability or abuse lower tiered teams but get no better on skills? ?might as well be practicing every day with a game or 2 a week....and regardless, even if you feel like the coach is going to "mess up" your dd, just sit back and really think about what you are so disgruntled about before posting here or having a carrade (car tirade after the game about your dd being too good for central ohio softball) about rules....yes, there are girls on my dd's school squad that wouldnt pinch run on a travel team...so what! ?every community is going to get a different kind of girl coming out for sports, and you either have some good coaches who coach travel on the side, or a teacher/coach who is taking their time to have a team so the girls at least have a squad....and then, don't blame a teacher for having to grade papers AND teach the intricate fielding maneuvers of a pick-off play....aren't you supposed to be working with your dd anway? ?we ended this conversation between my dd and me long ago
"why didn't you throw the ball?"
" cause she wouldn't catch it!"
"so, you're going to get her out by staring at her with a ball in your hand?"
there you go, teach them to play together and everything will fall into place...the girls already have school and myspace and guitar hero and texting to worry about a high school coaches agendas...after a while, your attitude about the program/other girls/coach will reflect onto your DD, and then you have a prima donna sitting shotgun...no fun at all...
sorry that this rant was hitting so many areas of the dartboard, i should have just quoted david beckham's post and agreed with an icon face but then ringer would accuse me of kissing up to the classics org, of which i already do plenty of :

Now that is just gross!

Wow Ringer. I have no clue who you are. After that pic to Statman, maybe keep it that way but it did prompt me to post again. I seldom venture out on these websites. If I read the first post correctly, is Ohio High School hurting our scholar Atheletes?

My answer is "NO". They are either players that Scholarship opportunities will be offered to or not. What prohibits us in our area is mostly climate. We can do nothing about it, Playing indoors is not enough. To protect our athletes from over zealous coaches be it Basketball, Track, cheerleading etc. Ohio High school has placed limitations.

Considering this, I cannot imagine a starting Varsity player on a school softball team wanting anything else. That is if they are on a very good program. If they are not going to start, Then I can understand why they do not want to be locked down and cannot participate with their summer team. Again, are the individuals scholar atheletes?

Classics, those are statman's lips. I'm sure you've seen them before since you are in the same org.

The problem is not the OHSAA's rules. As Beckham mentioned, those are in place for a very good reason. I believe the restriction on high school coaches needs to stay in place over the summer (10 contact days allowed), but removed during the school year. They should be able to instruct their own players during the school year - it's almost crazy that they can't and even more ridiculous that they can legally work with any other high school player in the state. Some girls will be playing multiple sports, but most coaches worth anything will not expect them to be at open gyms during another sport's season. If they do, I'm sure the other coaches at the school and the AD will take care of it. As Joe mentioned, it's the 1,000's of kids who don't play travel or receive private lessons that are hurt the most by the rules - not the elite few who are pursuing college scholarships.

The restriction on outside participation is also good. After having school ball 6 days a week, a player should not be expected to attend a 4-5 hour travel team practice on Sunday. The rules do not restrict in-season private instruction. They restrict travel team participation during the season, which is a good thing. I've seen more than a few successful travel coaches who merely collect talent developed by others and wouldn't have a clue what to do with 12 10 year old girls who have never played the game before. The scholarship-seeking player is not hurt by the rules because they can still receive private instruction and they can always choose not to play high school softball and they would have no restrictions. This is an idea that comes up a lot and never goes anywhere because the reality is that girls want to play for their school.

The real problem is with the Ohio Revised Code which requires that a 'qualified' certificated candidate be given preference over anyone else. Before I continue, I am not saying teachers are bad coaches or that there are not good coaches that are teachers. I am saying that this restriction, or any other restriction that forces a school to hire a lesser qualified coach, is creating the high school situations that many of you are unhappy with. Even though qualified is determined by the school, most school boards are not going to spend $1,000's of dollars fighting over who is going to be the girls softball coach. Even though they can win if they can document the non-certificated candidate is more qualified, they won't bother. It's just not important enough to them. This is what allows an unqualified teacher to become a softball coach - they just have to stick their hand up and say they want it.

If schools were free to hire the most qualified candidate they can find, teacher or not, the overall experience of high school softball for a well-trained talented player would be a lot better than it is for some of them now.

Well stated dtrj.

dont blame me, ringer, if at your next tourney you get these teams in pool play

slammers
sapphires
doom (pick a year)
wolfpack

*now, if only i had something to make these chapped lips go away*

i'm in on the joke, thank goodness!

OHSAA BOARD OF CONTROL MINUTES
(January 17, 2008)
Youngstown Boardman High School?s varsity softball team violated Sports Regulation 6, Open Gymnasiums or Facilities. As a result, the school?s
softball players will not be permitted to participate in school or non-school open gymnasiums in January 2008, and the school loses one of its allowable scrimmages for the 2008 season.

Click to expand...

Looks like somebody is keeping an eye open. If memory serves me correctly, the varsity coach at Boardman HS is the President-Elect of the Ohio High School Fastpitch Softball Coaches Association.

The penalty for the violation seems a little harsh

It's just another example of punishing the wrong party. In college, if the player screws up, the university pays (i.e. Webber & Michigan and now Bush & USC). In HS, if the coach screws up, the players do the time or in the above case - can't do the time.

now open gyms would hurt, but a scrimmage? geez, i'm sure they could play a jv team or something....but losing that gym time..ouch

so, we don't punish the players because college player should know better and high school kids are kids who just do what their coach tells them...b ut you always wonder how this info gets out....maybe those infamous you-didn't-play-my-DD-first-string people...does OHSSA have men-in-black spies stalking the parking lots to see when our dd's are showing up for open gyms, or does the school submit their information (schedules, open gyms, scrimmages) to a review panel to show compliance? who regulates what?

Almost had to be a parent or rival with a camera to have any proof. I'm guessing the coach was coaching to be in violation.

I agree with everything dtrj said above. ?I think they did change the law a little this year to say that once a non-teacher coach is in place, a school does not have to give preference to a qualified teacher who might come along and want the job. ?

Joe, You are right. SB 392 was introduced to prevent a teacher from taking a supplemental contract position away from a non teacher solely based on the fact they are a teacher in the school district. This is the link to the original bill which was adopted as part of another bill and passed about 18 months ago. http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_SB_392 .

mr ringer, we saw the little slammers in willoughby last summer and it was impressive the way a bunch young kids (10-11-12 we were told) could run the table in a quality 14U tournament
some of the slammers parents told me the coach does not coach in high school and the kids are from 4 schools in stark county
if he's not coaching at a high school, why would it matter how many kids are on the slammers from any school?
we see teams made up of kids from one high school playing together in summer leagues all the time